Trump appears to shove another leader so he could be in front of NATO group

[AirPo]

Live updates here -->

 

[miamited]

Hi airpro,

Yes, I must admit that on the surface that looks to be exactly what our president is doing. That would certainly qualify him as a pompous --- in my book. Fortunately it seems that the leader of Montenegro, on the surface, seems to have taken the affront graciously.

God bless you,
In Christ, ted

 

[Aryeh Jay]

Is Montenegro even a real country? Are they paying their fair share? They better get out of the way of the leader of the world if they know what is good for them.

 

[miamited]

Is Montenegro even a real country? Are they paying their fair share? They better get out of the way of the leader of the world if they know what is good for them.

Hi jay,

What do the Scriptures say about those who want to sit at the best table to be seen? There is such a thing as being gracious in a social situation and shoving people out of the way just because you want to be at the head of the line isn't in following with that. Yes, Montenegro is a real country that sits on the Adriatic sea right next to Kosovo and Sarajevo. <Staff Edit> The last reported figures for 2016 show that Montenegro is spending 1.6 % of GDP on military spending. The target is 2% but they are outspending Turkey, Germany Italy and Canada. However, Montenegro is not a NATO member and so they aren't subject to your 'qualification'.

You see, your understanding and what President Trump seems to be 'saying' is that we're the biggest and the baddest and we should be in front. The Scriptures however tell us that it is the meek and the humble who will inherit the earth. That those who want the best seats at the finest table do so to glorify themselves and not God. So, whether President Trump's actions were right or wrong as society sees it, they most certainly don't follow godly principles. <Staff Edit>

God bless you,
In Christ, ted

 

[Hank77]

You see, your understanding and what President Trump seems to be 'saying' is that we're the biggest and the baddest and we should be in front.

Watching Trump's body language is so telling. We have seen it many times but this one is so blatant.
I don't know that he is saying 'we are' but rather that 'he is' the biggest and the baddest.
I wish I could read lips. I would love to know for sure what he said to the man with the glasses who was speaking when he shoved his way to front and center.

 

[miamited]

Watching Trump's body language is so telling. We have seen it many times but this one is so blatant.
I don't know that he is saying 'we are' but rather that 'he is' the biggest and the baddest.
I wish I could read lips. I would love to know for sure what he said to the man with the glasses who was speaking when he shoved his way to front and center.

Hi hank,

Agreed. What scares me is that he can do this to the leader of Montenegro and likely get away with it with nothing more than a scolding from his handlers. However, if he were to make some perceived maneuver like this with some much larger and more powerful nation leader, such a put down could very easily escalate. Trust me those more powerful leaders are looking at this video just as much as we are. Some of them might even make an attempt to antagonize the president just for an excuse to shove back. Yes, all of that is speculation, but certainly not beyond the realm of possibility.

People are often saying that N. Korea is attempting to create a valid atomic or nuclear weapon just to be able to rub our noses in our own hypocrisy. They see the United States just as evil as we see them. They can't logically understand why our nation of 300 million people can have many such weapons and their nation of even more millions can't have one. The only nation to ever use such deadly force is the United States. I'm sorry and I'm a fairly patriotic man, but what we did in dropping the atomic bomb on two great cities of Japan just wasn't right by our own definition of warfare. We aren't supposed to be inflicting mass casualties on non-combatants. Sure, there are 'unintended consequences' when we bomb some military target, but the wholesale slaughter of two entire cities of people just isn't in keeping with our own terms of warfare.

We were incensed when alqueda destroyed the world trade centers and cost a couple of thousand lives. Just imagine how we would have reacted had any other nation done to us what we did to Japan. We walk around like President Trump with this idea that because we're the biggest and baddest we get to do such things, but those other nations...they don't see it like we do. For me, the bombing of Nagasaki and Hiroshima was a sad day in our nation's history. Especially when just about every historian is now telling us that the Japanese government was actively trying to figure out a way to get out of the war. That even had we not bombed their cities, the war likely would have ended in a few weeks or a month anyway. Yes, I understand that whatever longer the war may have lasted would have been counted in American lives, but that doesn't give us the right to just go over and wipe whole cities off the face of the earth. When Japan bombed Pearl Harbor they stuck with only bombing the Pearl Harbor military base. They didn't bomb all of Hawaii off the face of the earth.

God bless you,
In Christ, ted

 

[AvilaSurfer]

Maybe they were lining up according to how much they contributed to NATO

 

[camille70]

Hi jay,

What do the Scriptures say about those who want to sit at the best table to be seen? There is such a thing as being gracious in a social situation and shoving people out of the way just because you want to be at the head of the line isn't in following with that. Yes, Montenegro is a real country that sits on the Adriatic sea right next to Kosovo and Sarajevo. Can you give a dollar amount as to what is their fair share and offer some proof that they don't pay it, or are you just a general Trumpite who has tasted the Koolaid? The last reported figures for 2016 show that Montenegro is spending 1.6 % of GDP on military spending. The target is 2% but they are outspending Turkey, Germany Italy and Canada. However, Montenegro is not a NATO member and so they aren't subject to your 'qualification'.

You see, your understanding and what President Trump seems to be 'saying' is that we're the biggest and the baddest and we should be in front. The Scriptures however tell us that it is the meek and the humble who will inherit the earth. That those who want the best seats at the finest table do so to glorify themselves and not God. So, whether President Trump's actions were right or wrong as society sees it, they most certainly don't follow godly principles. But, President Trump, throughout his life, has been a bully and it's really the only nature he knows.

God bless you,
In Christ, ted

I could be mistaken, but I believe he was being sarcastic.

 

[JonFromMinnesota]

Maybe they were lining up according to how much they contributed to NATO

NATO isn't something you pay into....
If you're talking about the requirements to spend 2% of GDP on their own military, they have until 2024 to do so.

 

[AvilaSurfer]

NATO isn't something you pay into....
If you're talking about the requirements to spend 2% of GDP on their own military, they have until 2024 to do so.

I know exactly how it works and you know exactly what I meant.

 

[MoonlessNight]

Tomorrow's Headline: I only saw President Trump for a couple of seconds but it looked like he might have bumped into an old woman or something without apologizing. I'm sure it was intentional though.

 

[miamited]

I know exactly how it works and you know exactly what I meant.

Hi avilasurfer,

Well, I can't speak for Jon, but as for myself, I'd appreciate an explanation of how you think it works and how you feel they haven't 'paid their fair share'. As I reported in my earlier post, they aren't even a NATO member nation yet. They are expected to be adopted in later this year.

President Trump has made this big issue of other nations not carrying their fair share of costs. It's a fake issue. The United States spends a lot of money carrying out military operations in many different countries. Some very small part of that is work or security that is done as a part of the NATO requests or directives. However, that's all done by choice. The U.S. doesn't have to be the big bully on the block, but we choose to be and that costs us a lot of money. But, not all of the money that President Trump is squawking about it a result of any NATO costs.

Basically, NATO's mission is to be an organization of member nations that pledge to provide, as a group, additional and necessary forces for any member nation that come under attack by any of the communist countries of Europe. NATO does maintain some small amount of forces but those forces are voluntarily 'donated' to NATO by member nations. Pretty much everything done with NATO is a voluntary action of the member nations, except the commitment to protect other member nations from attack.

So, a lot of what people see today that NATO is doing, such as looking for WMD's or investigating gas attacks and such are all voluntary measures that the member nations have voted to do through the NATO alliance because it provides some umbrella of uniformity in such work and doesn't point fingers at any one nation quite so much. Now, for a lot of these kinds of missions, the U.S. can just say that they're not going to do as much as we may have in the past. Or maybe we won't even get directly involved in some of the smaller issues. The problem honestly is that it's usually the U.S. that is encouraging NATO to get involved in much of what they involve themselves in. If not the U.S., then it is one of the larger allies such as Canada or Great Britain. These are founding members that have established a long relationship of supporting one another's requests.

The U.S. can withdraw a lot of their support for many of the day to day activities of NATO today, but we must not and absolutely should not renege on the basic NATO commitment of providing unilateral support against any attack on any member nation. If the U.S. should decide not to donate 50 American tanks to the NATO peace keeping forces, no problem. But this idea that other member nations somehow owe a bunch of money to either us or NATO because we have voluntarily given millions or billions of dollars in materials and supplies to NATO is a totally fake issue.

Just for fun, although I'm sure you know everything about it as you claim, here's a link that will give you a more clear picture of NATO's role and it's funding. You will see that NATO itself, the offices and personnel that work for NATO, only costs just over 1.5 billion dollars/year. That's really small potatoes for an organization that does all the work that it does.

NATO funding: How it works and who pays what

Here's another link that explains that despite President Trump's claim that the U.S. is paying billions 'to' NATO, the fact is that the U.S. spends less than $500,000.00 for the annual budget of operating expenses for NATO. The billions that President Trump is referring to are voluntarily provided U.S. men and equipment to go and do some of the things that 'we' or some of the founding members have asked that NATO be involved in.

Trump’s claim that the U.S. pays the ‘lion’s share’ for NATO

NATO is getting involved in the terrorist agenda and also human smuggling that aren't really the core purpose of NATO, but certainly do need to be addressed. However, all men and machines used for these operations are voluntarily donated by the member nations. If the U.S. doesn't want to be the big bad dog in these concerns, then all we have to do is sit back and allow other member nations to step up to the plate. If no member nations step up, then the operation doesn't get done. Unfortunately for the U.S. a lot of these requests come from us. We want NATO to be involved in human trafficking and poverty. We want NATO to step up and drop food and supplies into areas where one nation's individual participation might not be accepted.

God bless you,
In Christ, ted

 

[Abraxos]

Trump appears to shove another leader so he could be in front of NATO group.

 

[LostMarbels]

If you take the time to watch the entire summit, you will see that Trump fell directly into the snake pit, and he is almost immediately picked on like a kid on a schoolyard. He was completely amongst the pro-EU globalist elitists he has ridiculed before. You have to remember, Trump stated his administration represented a true existential threat to globalists. He even praised Britan for the Brexit calling it "a great thing". He was not exactly well received in Brussels.

You can see EU leaders jeering, laughing, and even pointing at Trump. Some of them wouldn't even recognize he was in the room. A complete cold shoulder. So Trump walks right up to them and starts talking. He simply was unfazed that they were giving him the cold shoulder, and made his presence known. From what I saw he was not going to be snobbishly put in his place by them. He fired right back.

French President Emmanuel Macron seemed to physically avoid shaking Trump’s hand before Trump grabbed him and gave one of his famous ‘never ending handshakes’. He just put on the Pepe troll face like, 'that's fine I'll shake your hand.' Macron was later seen whispering to others and grimacing during Trump’s speech. They laughed outright when Trump brings up EU nations paying their 2% GDP as required, and almost went mental when Trump told them that the US pays more money into the UN the all other nations combined, and you used that money to build a new building? "I'm not even going to ask how much that cost. Scared to know."

Turns out Duško Marković, the guy who was pushed out of the way is not a Trump fan, to begin with, and you combine that with an unsubstantiated claim of a Russian assassination attempt on the previous prime minister; you will find opposition that has questioned whether any attempt at a coup d’état took place. Many including Trump feel the rumor was just to garner pity and get votes to allow the nation into the UN. Trump questioned: "Montenegro has only about 620,000 citizens. It has no air force. It has no military academy. It has no coast guard. Your armed forces have less than 2,000 active personnel. So what does NATO have to gain from letting you join?"


So it would seem Trump had a full day of countering attempts to delegitimise him, and he finally put Duško Marković in what he felt was his place. That's what I saw. Simply put, Trump refused to be pushed around or bullied like some nerd playing dodge ball. He stood up and stayed the course on everything he ever stated on his campaign.

 

[He is Risen 72]

A so called leader who’s former communist countries population is smaller than Detroit.

 

[Tanj]

A so called leader who’s former communist countries population is smaller than Detroit.

Ahh, so it's a tiny weak country, and thus not worthy of respect. Nice one.

 

[miamited]

A so called leader who’s former communist countries population is smaller than Detroit.

Hi heisrisen,

So, you think the size of the nation determines how one should be treated, or whether one should even be allowed basic civil propriety, in a social gathering? I suppose you're the guy that tells the maitre'd in the restaurant to turn away all the poor people. Asking him to please sit you only with those people who are worthy of your prestige and importance.

BTW, the word 'countries' in the context that you are using it, should be 'country's'. 'Former communist country' label only says that at some point in the past they were a communist country. It really doesn't give any indication of their political ideology today. Since the NATO alliance is considering their joining the group, and NATO's stated purpose is to stand against communist oppression and attack, I imagine that wiser men than you have been able to see and understand that truth.

Singular possessive of country is “country's.” The noun remains in the singular form and “ 's “ is added to indicate possession. “Countries” is simply the plural form of “country,” So, if you are talking about more than one country, it would be “countries.”Jul 2, 2016

I also wanted to add that it is because of their size and location among many communist ideologies that means that they need the protections provided by NATO membership a lot more than the U.S. does.

God bless you,
In Christ, ted

 

[miamited]

Hi lostmarbles,

You wrote:

Turns out Duško Marković, the guy who was pushed out of the way is not a Trump fan, to begin with, and you combine that with an unsubstantiated claim of a Russian assassination attempt on the previous prime minister; you will find opposition that has questioned whether any attempt at a coup d’état took place. Many including Trump feel the rumor was just to garner pity and get votes to allow the nation into the UN. Trump questioned: "Montenegro has only about 620,000 citizens. It has no air force. It has no military academy. It has no coast guard. Your armed forces have less than 2,000 active personnel. So what does NATO have to gain from letting you join?"

I'd like to enjoin you in a discussion of your position on this matter. I think that the first thing we need to consider and find out whether or not it is true or not, is this idea that joining the NATO aligned nations is a matter of what a nations membership might 'do' for NATO. NATO's purpose for existence, in the beginning, was to tie together the reasonably democratically governed nations of Europe with Canada and the U.S. to operate as a single force should any of the individual nations be attacked by other nations of communist ideologies. It has never really been about 'what a nation can do for NATO' except in the inclusion of Canada and U.S because NATO realized that they were likely two of the most powerful nations that would be good to have in their toolbox.

One of the founding nations in the NATO alliance was Luxembourg. They have no navy or air force. Their military actually consists of not much more than just their local police, what they call 'gendarmes'. It's an all volunteer force overseen by civilian command. They have like one battalion of voluntary fighting men. They honestly couldn't protect themselves against a major swarm of mosquitoes. I don't say that to denigrate the people of the nation as I'm sure that they are a proud lot and there is a lot of good in Luxembourg, but...

They didn't become a part of NATO because they could do something for NATO. They sought to be a part of the initial NATO alliance because of what being a member of NATO would mean for them if that swarm of mosquitoes happened to share communist ideologies. I think that's ok. It's what NATO was created to do. Provide a unified show of force of both small and large nations that would jump in at a moment's notice against communist aggression. It's the old three Muskateer's cry of 'all for one and one for all'.

This is actually the perfect alliance for Montenegro to be a part of. They too, are a small nation set among several larger nations of which a few do have communist ideologies. Should one of those larger nations threaten poor little Montenegro, then NATO would step in as their big brother protector. Of course, men like President Trump don't understand that. After all, he's the guy that denigrated Senator John McCain as a loser. Claiming that he only likes winners. So, Donald Trump doesn't comprehend or understand the nuances of what membership for many of these smaller European countries into NATO really means...for them. It isn't about what these small nations can do for NATO and that's the only thing Donald Trump understands. What can you do for me? It's all about me!!!!! I'm the king!!!!!! I'm the great leader of the greatest nation on the earth!!!!!! Bow down to me you puny worthless beggar!!!!!!!

President Trump keeps trying to get us to believe that his number one priority is us. Don't drink the Koolaid my friend. President Trump now, or as Donald Trump then, has never cared about the welfare of anyone but himself and his family. If he were to ever be called upon to make some small sacrifice for the good of someone else, well, you can just kiss that idea goodbye.

God bless you,
In Christ, ted

 

[miamited]

HI LM,

I'd also just like to make the point, since you mentioned Markovic not being a Trump fan, that according to popularity polls, over half the United States of Trump, aren't Trump fans.

God bless you,
In Christ, ted

 

[LostMarbels]

Hi lostmarbles,

You wrote:


I'd like to enjoin you in a discussion of your position on this matter. I think that the first thing we need to consider and find out whether or not it is true or not, is this idea that joining the NATO aligned nations is a matter of what a nations membership might 'do' for NATO. NATO's purpose for existence, in the beginning, was to tie together the reasonably democratically governed nations of Europe with Canada and the U.S. to operate as a single force should any of the individual nations be attacked by other nations of communistic ideologies. It has never really been about 'what a nation can do for NATO' except in the inclusion of Canada and U.S because NATO realized that they were likely two of the most powerful nations that would be good to have in their toolbox.

One of the founding nations in the NATO alliance was Luxembourg. They have no navy or air force. Their military actually consists of not much more than just their local police, what they call 'gendarmes'. It's an all volunteer force overseen by civilian command. They have like one battalion of voluntary fighting men. They honestly couldn't protect themselves against a major swarm of mosquitoes. I don't say that to denigrate the people of the nation as I'm sure that they are a proud lot and there is a lot of good in Luxembourg, but...

They didn't become a part of NATO because they could do something for NATO. They sought to be a part of the initial NATO alliance because of what being a member of NATO would mean for them if that swarm of mosquitoes happened to share communist ideologies. I think that's ok. It's what NATO was created to do. Provide a unified show of force of both small and large nations that would jump in at a moment's notice against communist aggression.

This is actually the perfect alliance for Montenegro to be a part of. They too, are a small nation set among several larger nations of which a few do have communist ideologies. Should one of those larger nations threaten poor little Montenegro, then NATO would step in as their big brother protector. Of course, men like President Trump don't understand that. After all, he's the guy that denigrated Senator John McCain as a loser. Claiming that he only likes winners. So, Donald Trump doesn't comprehend or understand the nuances of what membership for many of these smaller European countries into NATO really means...for them. It isn't about what these small nations can do for NATO and that's the only thing Donald Trump understands. What can you do for me? It's all about me!!!!! I'm the king!!!!!! I'm the great leader of the greatest nation on the earth!!!!!! Bow down to me you puny worthless beggar!!!!!!!

President Trump keeps trying to get us to believe that his number one priority is us. Don't drink the Koolaid my friend. President Trump now, or as Donald Trump then, has never cared about the welfare of anyone but himself and his family. If he were to ever be called upon to make some small sacrifice for the good of someone else, well, you can just kiss that idea goodbye.

God bless you,
In Christ, ted

Well, you don't have to worry about the Koolaid, my friend. I don't drink the stuff. I usually refer to Koolaid as "Jim Jones". As in, going to get a glass of Jim Jones. Coffee drinker myself. Can't stay away from the stuff.

But I get your point. However, I discuss topics. I'm not so much pro/anti anyone. I just like to find truth in situations. Trump did not appear to push the guy out of his way, he did. Trump straight up removed him from in front of himself, aggressively. I watched the whole thing, not just a clip. The entire time Trump was belittled like a nerdy kid in a school yard and he had enough. I don't blame him. This group of individuals are set in direct opposition to Trump and are even part of the driving force behind all his media woes in America. Trump forcefully reinserted himself into multiple conversations and stood up for himself, and did not waver one bit in his agenda. He told them straight to their faces everything he stated on a camera in America.I personally find it awesome to see a politician that stands his ground regardless of opposition or appearance.

Anyone can hide behind a camera and spout off their mouth, but to look someone in the eyes on the world's stage, in real time life, and repeat the same narrative takes fortitude. What I saw was Trump asserting that 'I'm not your punk', not that he is the boss. He is not going to bow, nor is he going to be bullied or shamed into submission. He is also not going to be ignored. Love him, hate him, Trump is going to do exactly as he stated he will regardless of opposition.

He blasted the leaders of NATO for not paying their fair share of 2% GDP on defense as is required. He reminded them that many of them were substantially behind on their payments, and called for them to pay their fair share. Stating that the US pays more than all other nations combined, he then states that they used that money to build themselves a pretty little building. Implying that they misappropriated America's money without asking. He then lays into them concerning radical Islamic, terrorism, and border security of sovereign countries. He completely ripped into them as they stood there and mocked him.

I also watched the G7 live yesterday, right up to where the cameras cut because of classified info. Merkel was on his left, Beside her was Justin Trudeau, directly across was the Emperor of Japan, Akihito, and Macron was on his left besides Mcmasters. There were others I do not know or recognize at the table. Trump straight up dominated the conversation like a maestro conducting a section of fiddlers. He imposes himself in order to not be drowned out. And their attitude was different. Macron still looks at Trump like a peasant that doesn't know his place. He wouldn't even shake his hand again, but he was forced to address and react to Trump because Trump wasn't going to be swatted away. That is why he is so hated. He refuses to go along with the flow, respect elitest status, or renigg on his commitments. They cannot control him.