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True Justification, works of the Law of Moses, & Conditional Security

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kingskid

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Yes, Luke 22:31-32 is a 100% true verse that I agree with. It does say Peter needs to be converted. In Luke 22, Jesus prophecies that Peter will deny Jesus 3 times and because of that denial (he will become unsaved), and he will then need to repent of such a sin and be converted back again to believing in Jesus (and be saved again) . What you are denying or will not see (like many here) are the clear plain straight forward verses that I just showed you in John 1:12-13, John 3:3, John 3:9-10, John 14:17.

For John 1:12-13 says as many as received him (or even believe on his name) he gave them the right to be children of God who is born not of the flesh but who is born of God. That is what the passage says. So it is up to you to believe it or not. Your choice. Either believe man's doctrine or believe the Bible.


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Why do you wish to say I don't believe the bible? I certainly do believe the bible.

A person does not get born again..then unborn again..then born again.

You apparently don't understand born again.

John 3:5-8 KJV
Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God. [6] That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. [7] Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again. [8] The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit.
 
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Why do you wish to say I don't believe the bible? I certainly do believe the bible.

A person does not get born again..then unborn again..then born again.

You apparently don't understand born again.

John 3:5-8 KJV
Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God. [6] That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. [7] Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again. [8] The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit.
John 3 does not say a person can only be born again once. I want you to slowly examine what the following passage says word for word and give me a complete commentary on it.

"But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name: Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God." (John 1:12-13).

After providing this indepth commentary, ask yourself: Did Peter receive Christ or believe on Jesus's name?


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kingskid

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John 3 does not say a person can only be born again once. I want you to slowly examine what the following passage says word for word and give me a complete commentary on it.

"But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name: Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God." (John 1:12-13).

After providing this indepth commentary, ask yourself: Did Peter receive Christ or believe on Jesus's name?


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Peter was drawn to Christ as he was chosen from the foundation of the world.

Ephesians 1:4-5 KJV
According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love: [5] Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will

Peter did not get born again then unborn again and then born again

Peter was born again sometime after he denied Christ
 
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ToBeLoved

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John 3 does not say a person can only be born again once. I want you to slowly examine what the following passage says word for word and give me a complete commentary on it.

"But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name: Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God." (John 1:12-13).

After providing this indepth commentary, ask yourself: Did Peter receive Christ or believe on Jesus's name?


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He is talking about being born again spiritually. Not physically.

Also, we do not RECEIVE Christ. We receive the Holy Spirit.

Notice the ':' colon. Which are born not of blood (Spiritually),
nor the will of the flesh (Spiritually),
nor the will of man (Spiritually)
BUT OF GOD.

We are born of God.

Spirit begets spirit.

Man begets man.

I thought you would have known this stuff.

Another thing to note is that NO MAN has physically died to be born-again spiritually. Just in case that's your next arguement.
 
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stuart lawrence

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John 3 does not say a person can only be born again once. I want you to slowly examine what the following passage says word for word and give me a complete commentary on it.

"But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name: Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God." (John 1:12-13).

After providing this indepth commentary, ask yourself: Did Peter receive Christ or believe on Jesus's name?


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You are right. A person doesn't get born again unborn again then born again. That is not to understand what born again is
God bless
 
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Peter was drawn to Christ as he was chosen from the foundation of the world.

Ephesians 1:4-5 KJV
According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love: [5] Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will

Peter did not get born again then unborn again and then born again

Peter was born again sometime after he denied Christ
So unsaved disciples were sheep among wolves spreading the news of Jesus to the house of Israel? God chooses unsaved representatives to represent His Kingdom? Or do you think people in the past could be saved and not born again? Again, give me a commentary on John 1:12-13.


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You are right. A person doesn't get born again unborn again then born again. That is not to understand what born again is
God bless
How can a person be called "twice dead"? (Jude 1:12). In the Parable of the Prodigal Son: The father said of his son who went prodigal that he was "dead" and was "alive again" two times. Surely these passages are speaking in spirtual terms. Maybe you can ignore stuff like that in the Bible, but I can't.


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ToBeLoved

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So unsaved disciples were sheep among wolves spreading the news of Jesus to the house of Israel? God chooses unsaved representatives to represent His Kingdom? Or do you think people in the past could be saved and not born again? Again, give me a commentary on John 1:12-13.


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What you say is not possible at that time. No one was born again until after Jesus death and resurrection.

After Jesus death and at Pentecost the disciples received the Holy Spirit.

That is why Jesus told them that is in their best interest that Jesus go. Because then He will ask the Father to send the Comforter to them.
 
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Oh and Peter believed in Jesus and he had received him, too (Which makes him born again according to John 1:12-13). Anyways, here are the passages that show Peter believed in Jesus and that he received him.

John 2:11
Matthew 16:15-17
John 17:7-9
John 17:12



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ToBeLoved

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Oh and Peter believed in Jesus and he had received him, too (Which makes him born again according to John 1:12-13). Anyways, here are the passages that show Peter believed in Jesus and that he received him.

John 2:11 (still adding)
Why would Peter have to "RECIEVE" Jesus if Jesus was already with him?

John 1:12-13 is AFTER jesus death and resurrection. There is time in the BIble and events happen eithter before or after other events.

Come on. You cannot see that some things happened after Jesus Christ death and ressurection and some things happened before?

Why are you being so sloppy and not putting events in their proper timeline? That is not correctly dividing the Word of Truth. Teachers need to teach correctly.
 
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ToBeLoved

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Oh and Peter believed in Jesus and he had received him, too (Which makes him born again according to John 1:12-13). Anyways, here are the passages that show Peter believed in Jesus and that he received him.

John 2:11 (still adding)
Matthew 16:15-17
John 17:12
Question;

YOu are quoting from one of the four Gospels.

Were the gospels written BEFORE Jesus death? Or after?
 
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RLBeers

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It seems to me I am reading a circular argument, and both of you appear to be missing or avoiding the elephant in the room, when Peter denied Christ, the sacrifice for sin had not be accomplished. No blood had been shed to wipe away sin, and Jesus had not died and been ressurected.
 
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kingskid

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Oh and Peter believed in Jesus and he had received him, too (Which makes him born again according to John 1:12-13). Anyways, here are the passages that show Peter believed in Jesus and that he received him.

John 2:11 (still adding)
Matthew 16:15-17
John 17:12

There are two sets of believers.
Believers still in the flesh( in the process of being drawn)
Believers born again

A rebirth happens after a true repentance. That is when God writes His laws on their hearts. That is when they are born again. There is no back and forth rebirth.
 
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Why would Peter have to "RECIEVE" Jesus if Jesus was already with him?

John 1:12-13 is AFTER jesus death and resurrection. There is time in the BIble and events happen eithter before or after other events.

Come on. You cannot see that some things happened after Jesus Christ death and ressurection and some things happened before?

Why are you being so sloppy and not putting events in their proper timeline? That is not correctly dividing the Word of Truth. Teachers need to teach correctly.
What time line are you talking about? When do you think Peter received Jesus? Care to re-read John chapter 17 very very slowly?


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kingskid

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It seems to me I am reading a circular argument, and both of you appear to be missing or avoiding the elephant in the room, when Peter denied Christ, the sacrifice for sin had not be accomplished. No blood had been shed to wipe away sin, and Jesus had not died and been ressurected.

You are right there.
 
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There are two sets of believers.
Believers still in the flesh
Believers born again

A rebirth happens after a true repentance. That is when God writes His laws on their hearts. That is when they are born again. There is no back and forth rebirth.
I am not denying repentance. The Bible does not give us a complete second by second play of an entire person's life. But what you ARE ignoring is what John 1:12-13 says. For you have refused to explain it.



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sdowney717

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I would go with The Spirit had not yet been given, since Christ had not yet been glorified.
The Holy Spirit indwells believers. He will not indwell an old wine bottle or it would burst.
So you can easily see, I hope, the new birth, regeneration comes BEFORE the indwelling Holy Spirit, else the person would be destroyed.
How long between these 2 events, the new birth and the subsequent indwelling Holy Spirit, is an open question.

The Promise of the Holy Spirit
37 On the last day, that great day of the feast, Jesus stood and cried out, saying, “If anyone thirsts, let him come to Me and drink. 38 He who believes in Me, as the Scripture has said, out of his heart will flow rivers of living water.” 39 But this He spoke concerning the Spirit, whom those believing in Him would receive; for the Holy Spirit was not yet given,because Jesus was not yet glorified.

And when the bridegroom Christ is gone away, Jesus said The Father will send to them the Holy Spirit to indwell them.

15 And Jesus said to them, “Can the friends of the bridegroom mourn as long as the bridegroom is with them? But the days will come when the bridegroom will be taken away from them, and then they will fast.
16 No one puts a piece of unshrunk cloth on an old garment; for the patch pulls away from the garment, and the tear is made worse.

17 Nor do they put new wine into old wineskins, or else the wineskins break, the wine is spilled, and the wineskins are ruined.

But they put new wine into new wineskins, and both are preserved.”


There is that word PRESERVED again! God preserves His saints. Jesus is talking about us being regenerated prior to receiving of the Holy Spirit.
 
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It seems to me I am reading a circular argument, and both of you appear to be missing or avoiding the elephant in the room, when Peter denied Christ, the sacrifice for sin had not be accomplished. No blood had been shed to wipe away sin, and Jesus had not died and been ressurected.
Sorry. I just ate your elephant. Scripture says Jesus is the Lamb slain since the foundation of the world. In addition, please carefully re-read Romans 3:25 in a couple of different translations.



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mercy1061

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So unsaved disciples were sheep among wolves spreading the news of Jesus to the house of Israel? God chooses unsaved representatives to represent His Kingdom? Or do you think people in the past could be saved and not born again? Again, give me a commentary on John 1:12-13.


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What about Judas?
 
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