Are you self taught?
I actually said that very early on in our conversation and I think now more than ever it is true.
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Are you self taught?Who was the teacher for these believers?
"But the anointing which you have received of him abides in you, and you need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teaches you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it has taught you, you shall abide in him" (1 John 2:27).
According to this verse above, did they have a need for any man to teach them? Yes, or no?
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Hello OpenHeart.
I would disagree with what you stated OpenHeart.
You said
The Bible never states that anyone is saved by their faith. What the Bible does say is written below.
Ephesians 2:8
For by grace you have been saved through faith...
Acts 15:11
But we believe that we are saved through the grace of the Lord Jesus
Romans 3
23 For all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, 24 being justified
as a gift by His grace.
We are saved by Grace first and foremost and not by faith.
However, unlike most Annihilationists or those who hold to Conditional Immortality, I am a Dualastic Conditionalist. This means that I believe hell is a very real and literal place. So I believe the story of Lazarus and the Richman is a very real and literal story told by Jesus Christ Himself (that gives us a glimpse of what the afterlife is like for the wicked when they die). This hell will be cast into the lake of fire and be destroyed (after the Judgment). For the Scriptures say the last enemy to be destroyed is death. Salvation, eternal life, or immortality is a gift that can only be found by abiding in Jesus Christ. Adam and Eve were not originally created as immortal beings. They needed to eat of the Tree of Life in order to become immortal. But that never happened. Man never became immortal. God kept man away from that tree in the Garden.....
I really need verses for all that. I'm sure you do not mind since it is the basic tenants of your belief.However, unlike most Annihilationists or those who hold to Conditional Immortality, I am a Dualastic Conditionalist. This means that I believe hell is a very real and literal place. So I believe the story of Lazarus and the Richman is a very real and literal story told by Jesus Christ Himself (that gives us a glimpse of what the afterlife is like for the wicked when they die). This hell will be cast into the lake of fire and be destroyed (after the Judgment). For the Scriptures say the last enemy to be destroyed is death. Salvation, eternal life, or immortality is a gift that can only be found by abiding in Jesus Christ. Adam and Eve were not originally created as immortal beings. They needed to eat of the Tree of Life in order to become immortal. But that never happened. Man never became immortal. God kept man away from that tree in the Garden.
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I do believe in Sola Scriptura because it is based on the testimony of Scripture itself. If you care to look at my points in Scripture, you can check that out here.I'm sure you believe in "Bible only" and "Save by faith alone" which are the hall marks of Protestantism. Non-denominationalism is a protestant thing. You can't be a Christian without being part of one of the three branches. If you are outside the three branches, you are by definition a heretic. I don't think you are a heretic.
WHAT?But that is not the reality we see in Scripture, though. Nowhere does Scripture ever say that a believer's sins are different than unbeliever's sins salvation wise. Your belief is just something you have latched onto that was invented by others.
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Ah see now you have hooked me into an interesting conversation.Trust me. Not all protestants believe in saved by faith alone unto heaven. Most believe saved by faith alone at the point of conversion
LOL You may personally hate labels, but non-denoms don't avoid labels, I'm sorry to inform you. All a non-denominational church is, is a church which is not responsible to a higher denominational body -- they are independent churches. That's it. As for labels, they can be pentecostal; they can be fundamentalist; they can be evangelical; they can be arminian; they can be holiness; I have a good friend who is that pastor of a non-denominational church and hers is into the wealth and prosperity nonsense--yet another label. The one label they ALL share is that they are certainly ALL PROTESTANT.No. Non-denominational churches are not under the umbrella of Protestant churches. They are called Non-denominational because they are not wanting to be attached to any labels
Not sure that faith is something that Jesus asks of us?Grace is unmerited favor. Grace is what Jesus gave us by dying for our
sins so we could come to Him for salvation. We did nothing to deserve it, it
was only because of the unmerited favor of God. We come to Jesus through
faith. Faith is what Jesus Christ asks of us.
Yup. That's true. Non-denominational don't report to a higher denominational body. These are usually Bible-based churches from my experience, but you are right Open Heart and they are definately protestant.LOL You may personally hate labels, but non-denoms don't avoid labels, I'm sorry to inform you. All a non-denominational church is, is a church which is not responsible to a higher denominational body -- they are independent churches. That's it. As for labels, they can be pentecostal; they can be fundamentalist; they can be evangelical; they can be arminian; they can be holiness; I have a good friend who is that pastor of a non-denominational church and hers is into the wealth and prosperity nonsense--yet another label. The one label they ALL share is that they are certainly ALL PROTESTANT.
Hello OpenHeart.
You stated the following.
Not sure that faith is something that Jesus asks of us?
Faith is in fact, a fruit of the Holy Spirit that is gifted to us.
Galatians 5
22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness,
faithfulness.
1 Corinthians 12
8 For to one is given the word of wisdom through the Spirit, and to another
the word of knowledge according to the same Spirit; 9 to another faith by
the same Spirit.
Romans 12:3
For through the grace given to me I say to everyone among you not to think
more highly of himself than he ought to think; but to think so as to have sound
judgment, as God has allotted to each a measure of faith.
Our salvation is a free gift by Grace, and so our faith is also a gift from above.
Once again, we are saved by Grace only.
Romans 4
16 For this reason it is by faith, in order that it may be in accordance with grace.
Romans 5
5 Therefore, having been justified by faith, we have peace with God through
our Lord Jesus Christ, 2 through whom also we have obtained our introduction
by faith into this grace in which we stand.
Romans 5
15 For if by the transgression of the one the many died, much more did the
grace of God and the gift by the grace of the one Man, Jesus Christ, abound
to the many.
Saved by Grace alone is certainly the fundamental doctrine of the scripture.
Wrong.
Romans 5
5 Therefore, having been justified by faith, we have peace with God through
our Lord Jesus Christ, 2 through whom also we have obtained our introduction
by faith into this grace in which we stand.
Romans 4
16 For this reason it is by faith, in order that it may be in accordance with grace.
I think a mistake has been made. I don't remember writing this, and I don't usually define Grace as "unmerited favor."Hello OpenHeart.
You stated the following.Grace is unmerited favor. Grace is what Jesus gave us by dying for our
sins so we could come to Him for salvation. We did nothing to deserve it, it
was only because of the unmerited favor of God. We come to Jesus through
faith. Faith is what Jesus Christ asks of us.
Some Protestants think that, but not all Protestants. For example, the Methodists, the Nazarenes, many Baptists, basically your assundry Arminian denominations including Arminian non-denominational churches all believe you can fall from grace and loose your salvation. Oh and don't forget the Lutherans.But then again, they think salvation is like a magical wish or super power or something. When salvation is a person named Jesus Christ (1 John 5:12). For they believe they can be out of fellowship with Christ and be saved. But it doesn't work like that.
Do you believe that Works plays a part in becoming saved, or just plays a part in staying saved?I also do not believe in their version of Sola Fide (faith alone) because it is a faith that is a mere belief alone. They believe God directed works are not a necessary part of their salvation.
Faith being a fruit of the Spirit does not happen until after we have been saved by Jesus Christ because we do not have the Holy Spirit until after salvation.Titus 3
7 that having been justified by His grace we should become heirs according to the hope of eternal life.
4 But God, who is rich in mercy, because of His great love with which He loved us, 5 even when we were dead in trespasses, made us alive together with Christ (by grace you have been saved),
What comes first, faith or is it really grace?
It is grace first then faith, since God extends to us the grace to believe by the gift of faith.
No. You said who (as in what man teaches me). You did not appear to be aware of 1 John 2:27 until I pointed it out to you. For our real teacher is God and not men. The trick to tell if someone is false or true is by their fruit. Jesus talks about this in Matthew 7.What is the verse before that?
These things have I written unto you concerning them that seduce you.
Just like someone needs to LISTEN and BE CONVICTED by the Holy Spirit about their sin, the same thing is true for teaching. I do not believe that you are open to being taught by the Holy Spirit because you've already decided that you know all there is to know.
1 Corinthians 2:14
…13 which things we also speak, not in words taught by human wisdom, but in those taught by the Spirit, combining spiritual thoughts with spiritual words. 14 But a natural man does not accept the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him; and he cannot understand them, because they are spiritually appraised. 15 But he who is spiritual appraises all things, yet he himself is appraised by no one
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