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The New Covenant began with Christ's death. But you also have to read Romans 3:25. Please read this in a couple of different translations.When did the new covenant commence? The old one was still in effect until Christ died. at Calvary. Read
I am not denying that there are not important reasons to having the Holy Spirit in our lives. But that still does not change that all men needed to be born again in order to enter the Kingdom of God. This would have included the OT saint. There are many verses that support this view. But you kind of have to study that in order to get it. You have to also first be open to it, too (In order to get it). You have to be a good Berean and search the Scriptures to see whether those things be so or not. It is not, I look at these set of verses and make an assumption about them and just claim that I am right (Without really looking at the whole counsel of the Word).You are COMPLETELY WRONG with this.
The Holy Spirit testifies WITH your spirit that YOU are one of Christ's Own.
Born-again spiritually is to have the Holy Spirit WITHIN you. You are then a new creation spiritually, in Jesus Christ.
This is where I think your theology is messed up. But if you understand this, then your faith will explode!
I know what that means, I don't need to read it in different translations, I rely on the Holy Spirits conviction to understand the bible.The New Covenant began with Christ's death. But you also have to read Romans 3:25. Please read this in a couple of different translations.
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the new covenant was not in operation until Calvary. I am speaking of the new covenant. Read john 17:20-23
We are in Christ and his father and they in us through the holy spirit who dwells in us. And christians can only be of one heart and mind in the spirit(phil2:2)
I don't write anything off Jason, but you have to rightly divide the word. Again, I have been speaking of the new covenant.No. When Jesus was already forgiving people their sins and giving life to people. Jesus was already sending out His disciples to the house of Israel. It does not make any sense to send unsaved evangelists to evangelize people or to make disciples of them. That would not make any sense. When Jesus spoke in John 15, he was speaking in the present tense to everyone and he was not in the future tense. In other words, when you do not like what certain verses say, you just write it off as if God's Word is automatically is talking about the future New Covenant.
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Your refusal to except knowledge (Whether it be good or bad) does not boad well for you that you are willing to ammend your beliefs according to the Word of God. I look at Modern Translations all the time. Some times I agree with them and other times I disagree with them. The point is to at least use these tools so as to find the truth when you study God's Word. The Word does not ammend to what we want it to say.I know what that means, I don't need to read it in different translations, I rely on the Holy Spirits conviction to understand the bible.
Jesus died for the sins of those who lived before him, as well as after
Your refusal to except knowledge (Whether it be good or bad) does not boad well for you that you are willing to ammend your beliefs according to the Word of God. I look at Modern Translations all the time. Some times I agree with them and other times I disagree with them. The point is to at least use these tools so as to find the truth when you study God's Word. The Word does not ammend to what we want it to say.
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I don't write anything off Jason, but you have to rightly divide the word.
Again, I have been speaking of the new covenant.
Jesus sent his disciples whom he had chosen to spread the message of himself whilst the old covenant was still in operation. No one was born again under the old covenant, as you keep being told! But that did not mean God had not accepted them did it. But under the new covenant, ye must be born again, or you have a licence to sin. I am sorry you cannot understand this
All the knowledge I have comes from the Holy Spirit, and he can reveal truth to you from any bona fide translation of the bible. I learnt of grace through reading the living Bible, hardly a translation many would consider the best.
Which translation taught you to split the one whole law concerning which part you have a righteousness apart from and which part you do not?
No Jesus did not tell Nicodemus under the old covenant ye must be born again. This is how he describes someone who is born again:Mid Acts Dispensationalists quote this passage as if it is their verse of exclusive ownership and as if it explains everything. So please do not say "rightly divide the word" from Scripture. It does not explain what we are talking about here.
Jesus said under the Old Covenant that you must be born againt to Nicodemus. Jesus appeared surprised that Nicodemus did not seem to know about this concept. Read John 3 again.
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I don't profess to be infallible, however, if we truly rely on the Holy Spirit to lead us into truth, rather than relying on many differing translations of the bible, we will know far than would otherwise be the caseI don't believe everything you say here comes from God. So I disagree.
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Romans 3:25 AMP
"whom God displayed publicly [before the eyes of the world] as a [life-giving] sacrifice of atonement and reconciliation (propitiation) by His blood [to be received] through faith. This was to demonstrate His righteousness [which demands punishment for sin], because in His forbearance [His deliberate restraint] He passed over the sins previously committed [before Jesus’ crucifixion]."
Romans 3:25 DARBY
"whom God has set forth a mercy-seat, through faith in his blood, for [the] shewing forth of his righteousness, in respect of the passing by the sins that had taken place before, through the forbearance of God;"
Romans 3:25 VOICE
"When God set Him up to be the sacrifice—the seat of mercy where sins are atoned through faith—His blood became the demonstration of God’s own restorative justice. All of this confirms His faithfulness to the promise, for over the course of human history God patiently held back as He dealt with the sins being committed."
I don't profess to be infallible, however, if we truly rely on the Holy Spirit to lead us into truth, rather than relying on many differing translations of the bible, we will know far than would otherwise be the case
Point one is the only one necessary to reply to. I have many times put up posts to you, only for them to be ignored. So please Jason, don't accuse others of that. So please back the following up:We both believe we rely on the Spirit for understanding on the Scriptures. But we both cannot be right, though. So the test is to see who is truly telling the truth or not.
#1. Scriptures can be backed up by what I have said and verses from my opposing proponents can be explained. Yet, that is not the case always with verses I have brought forth before (That have gone continually ignored).
#2. I can make a real world example or parable out of the Bibical view of Conditional Salvation. This is not the case for those who hold to OSAS and it's strange beliefs that are attached to it (Like denying the new birth and how the word can be written in a person's heart for all people thru out time).
#3. Conditional Salvation is the most consistent view with morality or God's goodness. This is not the case with OSAS at all.
#4. Folks have committed suicide and even killed because of their belief in OSAS.
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Yes, Jesus died for the sins of those who lived before him as well as afterRomans 3:25 is saying God did not punish the sins of the OT saints but he forgave them based on the Promise of Christ's sacrifice. For God knows the future. For even Abraham saw Christ's day and was glad.
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#4. Folks have committed suicide and even killed because of their belief in OSAS.
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Not at all. These were not people who understood that "works" are God directed and not man directed. They were involved in man directed Works Salvationism or church traditions (of which I do not believe). But it is possible for even faithful believers to fall away from the faith. But their fall is not the gospel but it is their own desire to sin. Also, I just see more testimonials of how people have been led out of sin by denying OSAS and not agreeing with it. People have used your version of Grace and have been led down the wrong path because of it (like suicide, adultery, and killing others). It is what I like to call the Sociopathic gospel because you even said yourself that Paul is not under the moral law salvation wise but yet he keeps it on some level but yet he really doesn't because he must also be found as a sinner.Folks have killed themselves and ended up sex addicts with your views, as Christian counsellors have told me. Others have ended up broken and crushed, and left the Christian faith. It is tragic
The people you have mentioned who believed in grace cannot have been born again of the spirit. But in biblical times some used grace as a licence to sin(jude4) but they couldn't have been born again either. However they did not stop the preaching of the gospel by the apostles.Not at all. These were not people who understood that "works" are God directed and not man directed. They were involved in man directed Works Salvationism or church traditions (of which I do not believe). But it is possible for even faithful believers to fall away from the faith. But their fall is not the gospel but it is their own desire to sin. Also, I just see more testimonials of how people have been led out of sin by denying OSAS and not agreeing with it. People have used your version of Grace and have been led down the wrong path because of it (like suicide, adultery, and killing others). It is what I like to call the Sociopathic gospel because you even said yourself that Paul is not under the moral law salvation wise but yet he keeps it on some level but yet he really doesn't because he must also be found as a sinner.
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