Trolls????

[twhite982]

Ok, now Im scratching my head, trying to think of any posts Ive made that were completely removed from the topic being discussed. How do your rules work, Tom?

I agreed with your definition of "trolling" and if I'm guilty of it I need to be made aware of it.


For me to dig through ALL your posts to find out which ones I thought were trolling would be wrong.


But, now that we have our understandings clear, I am duty bound to follow what I believe as well as you, i.e. NO TROLLING!


Tom

 

[True Believer]

What are you talking about? What false pretenses? What attack? Who have I attacked?

Hi,
Sorry! I meant it in a much broader term not pointing a finger at you but taking the idea of coming into Erwins home and teaching something different. If Erwin didn't want to have a different veiw he can alter the settings so that no one who does not fit the discription of Orthodox can post. The idea of a forum is to interact with each other and share beliefs and hopefully pointing to the GOOD in our own so as to attract ones to the same belief because we feel that ours are the right beliefs. What happens instead is the minority has to deal with the onslaught of the majority attacking them and thier beliefs. If a person is not attracted to the good of another, then beating them with words is sure not going to change them. If the Orthodox view is correct then all people will be saved who believe in the ransom sacrifice of Christ Jesus and they can do nothing about it so why try to change anothers beliefs?

 

[Serapha]

I agreed with your definition of "trolling" and if I'm guilty of it I need to be made aware of it.


For me to dig through ALL your posts to find out which ones I thought were trolling would be wrong.


But, now that we have our understandings clear, I am duty bound to follow what I believe as well as you, i.e. NO TROLLING!


Tom

Hi there!



As I just told a member of the CoJCoLDS's... if you are going to troll, then I am going to "preach"... I don't usually "preach", but tonight I am preaching until the trolls leave, until they begin to post seriously, or until they convert.


I'm "up for the night"... so I an outlast all of them


<grin>


~serapha~

 

[twhite982]

Hi there!



As I just told a member of the CoJCoLDS's... if you are going to troll, then I am going to "preach"... I don't usually "preach", but tonight I am preaching until the trolls leave, until they begin to post seriously, or until they convert.


I'm "up for the night"... so I an outlast all of them


<grin>


~serapha~

Serapha,

Are you saying I'm trolling?


Tom

 

[A New Dawn]

Do you believe Joseph Smith was a true prophet of God?

I believe that he was a true prophet of God for much of his life. But I believe that he was a man who was susceptible to human faults, also. I believe that he became proud and arrogant and that he started turning his face away from God. I believe he let others who were not prophetic in nature gain too much control of the church and too much influence over him. And that is when the teachings of the church started changing to teachings that were not of God.

I believe that this was no different from most of the prophets of the OT. Each of them had serious differences with God, also.

 

[Serapha]

Serapha,

Are you saying I'm trolling?


Tom

Hi there!



Are you participating in the game? You see, you can be a part of the problem or a part of the solution.


~serapha~

 

[Serapha]

I believe that he was a true prophet of God for much of his life. But I believe that he was a man who was susceptible to human faults, also. I believe that he became proud and arrogant and that he started turning his face away from God. I believe he let others who were not prophetic in nature gain too much control of the church and too much influence over him. And that is when the teachings of the church started changing to teachings that were not of God.

I believe that this was no different from most of the prophets of the OT. Each of them had serious differences with God, also.

Hi there!



But what is more important is the true message of the Gospel of Christ. When a denomination teachings some different than the true message, then it is misplaced faith.


~serapha~

 

[A New Dawn]

Hi there!



But what is more important is the true message of the Gospel of Christ. When a denomination teachings some different than the true message, then it is misplaced faith.


~serapha~

Just out of curiosity, Serapha, with over 300 different Christian denominations out there, which one delivers the true message?

The fact is, none of them do. Or all of them do. Everyone's faith is unique, and because it is FAITH, which cannot be proven, who's to say your's is better than mine.

So, I proclaim the Risen only-begotten Son of the Father in Heaven. He is the one who saved me. I don't know what false Gods you preach about, but I only know the true and living God, Jesus the Christ.

 

[usetheforce]

I'm sorry Serapha, maybe if you read what you just wrote, you would understand something.

The church that was organized by Joseph Smith splintered into numerous factions when he was killed. Brigham Young took the majority of the church and went west and created a whole new church with polygamy and Adam-God doctrines as it's base. The son of Joseph Smith took a much smaller portion of the church and created what became the Community of Christ (RLDS for a long time) with very mainstream Christian values. Do we accept or have we ever practiced polygamy? NO. Do we accept or have we ever practiced baptism for the dead? NO. Do we accept or have we ever believed the Adam-God theory. NO. Do we accept or have we ever practiced celestial marriages? NO.

Do you see where I am going?

Just because my church started out as the same church the Mormon church did, doesn't mean we are the mormon church. We don't have the same beliefs in any way shape or form.

So, maybe you ought to revamp some of your thinking. Because your present thinking is leading you in the wrong direction.

Hi..... Just to let you know some facts.

1. The son of Joseph Smith didn't create the RLDS Church.
A couple of individuals who were leaders in the Church broke from the Church and created the RLDS church on their own, and then because Emma had stayed behind with her property having also issues with Brigham Young especially over Plural Marriage which was indeed taught by Joseph Smith, they tried to groom Joseph Smith III, to lead their Church in which they succeded in doing, believing he was the legitamate successor.

2. There was no such thing as Adam/God, that is a creation by critics of the Church.
Yes, Brigham taught that Adam was God, but not God the Father, which is what anti's claim. Adam was Michael who helped in the Creation of the World, and was also the Father of Man.
Anyway, Adam/God is a misunderstanding of what Brigham taught, for what Brigham taught is still in the Temple today.
It was common for Brigham to sometimes teach Temple principles in that time, because of the difficulty of having a Temple.

3. Plural Marriage was originated by Joseph Smith, but it was as a "Spiritual" practice at the time, because it had not yet been officially revealed to the entire Church. The full practise of the Law was not implemented until Brigham Young.
"Marriage Sealings" however were performed by Joseph, and he had many spiritual wives, both before and after death.

4. Baptism for the Dead was also a Temple Ordainance in which Joseph Smith himself established while in Nauvoo, in the Nauvoo Temple.
Thus, that also wasn't a creation of Brigham or the LDS Church.

Just sharing some basic facts in case your curious.

 

[Serapha]

Just out of curiosity, Serapha, with over 300 different Christian denominations out there, which one delivers the true message?

The fact is, none of them do. Or all of them do. Everyone's faith is unique, and because it is FAITH, which cannot be proven, who's to say your's is better than mine.

So, I proclaim the Risen only-begotten Son of the Father in Heaven. He is the one who saved me. I don't know what false Gods you preach about, but I only know the true and living God, Jesus the Christ.

Hi there!




The true message is the one that comes from the Word of God. Your faith in "Jesus" is derived from the book of mormon which is a distortion of the true character of Christ.

Your "fact" is not a fact at all, but your opinion of all religions and denominations.

You proclaim the Jesus of the bom and, therefore, I find it necessary to keep "preaching" as long as you are trolling.

Now, I don't usualy "preach"... I usually just teach and discuss... but as long as you troll... I'm gong to do exactly as I was told, and I am going to take advantage of the situation and use every opportunity to preach and teach Jesus Christ.


The REAL Christ.

~serapha~

 

[usetheforce]

Just out of curiosity, Serapha, with over 300 different Christian denominations out there, which one delivers the true message?

The fact is, none of them do. Or all of them do. Everyone's faith is unique, and because it is FAITH, which cannot be proven, who's to say your's is better than mine.

So, I proclaim the Risen only-begotten Son of the Father in Heaven. He is the one who saved me. I don't know what false Gods you preach about, but I only know the true and living God, Jesus the Christ.

Actually, there are over 60,000 + "Christian" sects in the world.
Of course, major denominations is much less, so your likely correct still, I don't recall that number off hand.
But generally speaking, it doesn't really matter either way, because essentially everyone has their own views they think is right.

 

[A New Dawn]

Hi..... Just to let you know some facts.

1. The son of Joseph Smith didn't create the RLDS Church.
A couple of individuals who were leaders in the Church broke from the Church and created the RLDS church on their own, and then because Emma had stayed behind with her property having also issues with Brigham Young especially over Plural Marriage which was indeed taught by Joseph Smith, they tried to groom Joseph Smith III, to lead their Church in which they succeded in doing, believing he was the legitamate successor.

2. There was no such thing as Adam/God, that is a creation by critics of the Church.
Yes, Brigham taught that Adam was God, but not God the Father, which is what anti's claim. Adam was Michael who helped in the Creation of the World, and was also the Father of Man.
Anyway, Adam/God is a misunderstanding of what Brigham taught, for what Brigham taught is still in the Temple today.
It was common for Brigham to sometimes teach Temple principles in that time, because of the difficulty of having a Temple.

3. Plural Marriage was originated by Joseph Smith, but it was as a "Spiritual" practice at the time, because it had not yet been officially revealed to the entire Church. The full practise of the Law was not implemented until Brigham Young.
"Marriage Sealings" however were performed by Joseph, and he had many spiritual wives, both before and after death.

4. Baptism for the Dead was also a Temple Ordainance in which Joseph Smith himself established while in Nauvoo, in the Nauvoo Temple.
Thus, that also wasn't a creation of Brigham or the LDS Church.

Just sharing some basic facts in case your curious.

Thanks for your post. I am intimately familiar with these aspects of church history as I used to work in Nauvoo. I just didn't want to give them the 5 volume church history recitation.

I was pointing out the differences between the LDS church and the Community of Christ.

 

[twhite982]

Hi there!



Are you participating in the game? You see, you can be a part of the problem or a part of the solution.


~serapha~

This is rediculios.

What's the thread about?

I'm discussing exactly what the thread entails!

I'm not "dive-bombing any other thread with irrelevant information.

It seems to me its you against ALL LDS tonight regardless of the circumstance, so preach away.


You obviously don't see how these SAME tactics (trolling) were used in the Ephesians thread, to which you took issue on.


Has that behavior changed? Of course NOT, so why are you getting "preachy" now?





This UTD forum has gotten out of hand.

I am sick of it you're sick of it, we all are. Instead of being counter-productive address the specific offenders, but don't blanket label ALL.


Its up to you how you act.


Tom

 

[Serapha]

Hi..... Just to let you know some facts.

1. The son of Joseph Smith didn't create the RLDS Church.
A couple of individuals who were leaders in the Church broke from the Church and created the RLDS church on their own, and then because Emma had stayed behind with her property having also issues with Brigham Young especially over Plural Marriage which was indeed taught by Joseph Smith, they tried to groom Joseph Smith III, to lead their Church in which they succeded in doing, believing he was the legitamate successor.

2. There was no such thing as Adam/God, that is a creation by critics of the Church.
Yes, Brigham taught that Adam was God, but not God the Father, which is what anti's claim. Adam was Michael who helped in the Creation of the World, and was also the Father of Man.
Anyway, Adam/God is a misunderstanding of what Brigham taught, for what Brigham taught is still in the Temple today.
It was common for Brigham to sometimes teach Temple principles in that time, because of the difficulty of having a Temple.

3. Plural Marriage was originated by Joseph Smith, but it was as a "Spiritual" practice at the time, because it had not yet been officially revealed to the entire Church. The full practise of the Law was not implemented until Brigham Young.
"Marriage Sealings" however were performed by Joseph, and he had many spiritual wives, both before and after death.

4. Baptism for the Dead was also a Temple Ordainance in which Joseph Smith himself established while in Nauvoo, in the Nauvoo Temple.
Thus, that also wasn't a creation of Brigham or the LDS Church.

Just sharing some basic facts in case your curious.

This is going to be interesting...

watching one troll post against another troll.... Jenda isn't a moderator on this forum... so hey....


Meanwhile... I'm still going to ask you one more time. Are you saved? Is there a time in your life when you know that your sins would lead you to eternal death, and you made the conscientious choice to place your trust in the redemptive power of the Christ of Calvary?


~serapha~

 

[usetheforce]

Hi there!




The true message is the one that comes from the Word of God. Your faith in "Jesus" is derived from the book of mormon which is a distortion of the true character of Christ.

Your "fact" is not a fact at all, but your opinion of all religions and denominations.

You proclaim the Jesus of the bom and, therefore, I find it necessary to keep "preaching" as long as you are trolling.

Now, I don't usualy "preach"... I usually just teach and discuss... but as long as you troll... I'm gong to do exactly as I was told, and I am going to take advantage of the situation and use every opportunity to preach and teach Jesus Christ.


The REAL Christ.

~serapha~

Hello, just to let you know, one of the arguments that many Christian scholars and critics try to make is that the Book of Mormon is indeed Christian in it's theology, but the LDS Churches practices and doctrines otherwise that developed later over time afterwards are not.
So, critics can't have it BOTH WAYS.

It is either/or, but you can't have it both ways, cause both can't be true.
Thus, another example that critics don't know anything about the Church.
They just throw out whatever personal opinion they have from their first look, not at all based on what is actually "true" or not, from balanced and thorough scholarship.

 

[rnmomof7]

Actually, there are over 60,000 + "Christian" sects in the world.
Of course, major denominations is much less, so your likely correct still, I don't recall that number off hand.
But generally speaking, it doesn't really matter either way, because essentially everyone has their own views they think is right.

Actually that is not accurate. It is just propaganda

Usually the number cited is 30, 000
So lets look at that

30,000 Protestant Denominations?



This is usually an argument against sola Scriptura and Protestantism in general namely, that sola Scriptura produces doctrinal anarchy as is witnessed in the 25,000 Protestant denominations extant today. We have all along assumed the soundness of the premise that in fact there are 25,000 Protestant denominations; and we have shown that—even if this figure is correct the argument falls to the ground since it compares apples to oranges. We have just one more little detail to address before we can close; namely, the correctness of the infamous 25,000-Protestant-denominations figure itself.


I have only recently been able to locate the source of this figure. I say the source because in fact there is only one source that mentions this figure independently. All other secondary sources ultimately cite the same original source. That source is David A. Barrett’s World Christian Encyclopedia: A Comparative Survey of Churches and Religions in the Modern World A.D. 1900—2000 (ed. David A. Barrett; New York: Oxford University Press, 1982). This work is both comprehensive and painstakingly detailed; and its contents are quite enlightening. However, the reader who turns to this work for validation of the 25,000-Protestant-denomination argument will be sadly disappointed. What follows is a synopsis of what Barrett’s work in this area really says.



First, Barrett, writing in 1982, does indeed cite a figure of 20,780 denominations in 1980, and projects that there would be as many as 22,190 denominations by 1985. This represents an increase of approximately 270 new denominations each year (Barrett, 17). What those who cite this figure does not tell us (most likely because he does not know) is that most of these denominations are non-Protestant.



Barrett identifies seven major ecclesiastical “blocs” under which these 22,190 distinct denominations fall (Barrett, 14-15): (1) Roman Catholicism, which accounts for 223 denominations; (2) Protestant, which accounts for 8,196 denominations; (3) Orthodox, which accounts for 580 denominations; (4) Non-White Indigenous, which accounts for 10,956 denominations; (5) Anglican, which accounts for 240 denominations; (6) Marginal Protestant, which includes Jehovah’s Witnesses, Mormons, New Age groups, and all cults (Barrett, 14), and which accounts for 1,490 denominations; and (7) Catholic (Non-Roman), which accounts for 504 denominations.



According to Barrett’s calculations, there are 8,196 denominations within Protestantism—not 25,000 as some apologists claim. Barrett is also quick to point out that one cannot simply assume that this number will continue to grow each year . Yet even this figure is misleading; for it is clear that Barrett defines “distinct denominations” as any group that might have a slightly different emphasis than another group (such as the difference between a Baptist church that emphasizes hymns, and another Baptist church that emphasizes praise music).

\Barrett indicates that what he means by “denomination” is any ecclesial body that retains a “jurisdiction” (i.e., semi-autonomy). As an example, Baptist denominations comprise approximately 321 of the total Protestant figure. Yet the lion’s share of Baptist denominations are independent, making them (in Barrett’s calculation) separate denominations. In other words, if there are ten Independent Baptist churches in a given city, even though all of them are identical in belief and practice, each one is counted as a separate denomination due to its autonomy in jurisdiction. This same principle applies to all independent or semi-independent denominations. And even beyond this, all Independent Baptist denominations are counted separately from all other Baptist denominations, even though there might not be a dime’s worth of difference among them.


However Barrett has defined “denomination,” it is clear that he does not think of these as major distinctions; for that is something he reserves for another category. In addition to the seven major ecclesiastical “blocs” (mentioned above), Barrett breaks down each of these traditions into smaller units that might have significant differences (what he calls “major ecclesiastical traditions,” and what we might normally call a true denomination) (Barrett, 14). Referring again to our seven major ecclesiastical “blocs” (mentioned above, but this time in reverse order): For (1) Catholic (Non-Roman), there are four traditions, including Catholic Apostolic, Reformed Catholic, Old Catholic, and Conservative Catholic; for (2) Marginal Protestants, there are six traditions; for (3) Anglican, there are six traditions; for (4) Non-White Indigenous, which encompasses third-world peoples (among whom can be found traces of Christianity mixed with the major tenets of their indigenous pagan religions), there are twenty traditions, including a branch of Reformed Catholic and a branch of Conservative Catholic; for (5) Orthodox, there are nineteen traditions; for (6) Protestant, there are twenty-one traditions; and for (7) Roman Catholic, there are sixteen traditions, including Latin-rite local, Latin-rite catholic, Latin/Eastern-rite local, Latin/Eastern-rite catholic, Syro-Malabarese, Ukrainian, Romanian, Maronite, Melkite, Chaldean, Ruthenian, Hungarian, plural Oriental rites, Syro-Malankarese, Slovak, and Coptic..In other words, the true count of real denominations within Protestantism is twenty-one



As we have shown, the larger figures mentioned earlier (8,196 Protestant denominations are based on jurisdiction rather than differing beliefs and practice. Obviously, neither of those figures represents a true denominational distinction. Hence, Barrett’s broader category (which we have labeled true denominations) of twenty-one Protestant denominations represents a much more realistic calculation.

 

[Serapha]

Actually, there are over 60,000 + "Christian" sects in the world.
Of course, major denominations is much less, so your likely correct still, I don't recall that number off hand.
But generally speaking, it doesn't really matter either way, because essentially everyone has their own views they think is right.

~red herring~



I want to get the thread back on track. And that is... that as long as the trolls post trolling responses, that the threads will continue to be used to present the gospel of Christ.


Now.. keep the thread on Christ.


~serapha~

 

[usetheforce]

Hi! Your data is a bit old (1982). I can't find it at the moment the well known work I'm refering too.
However, I also heard from another individual that the most recent work now indicates 70,000 +, but I've never seen those statistics personally, so I didn't use them.

 

[rnmomof7]

Hi! Your data is a bit old (1982). I can't find it at the moment the well known work I'm refering too.
However, I also heard from another individual that the most recent work now indicates 70,000 +, but I've never seen those statistics personally, so I didn't use them.

LOL Are you saying that it has grown from 21 denominations to 70,000.

All this proves is you did not read the article.

 

[Starcrystal]

Twhite982,
This UTD forum has gotten out of hand.

EEEeeek! Run to the hills!!

(Maybe not such a bad idea...run to the hills and

I've noticed several UTD forums that got out of hand. Look at the mockery on the "Did aliens breed with humans..."