Trolling around

[Hieronymus]

I used to struggle heap's when I first left Christianity, leaving God was like leaving a partner. I came back numerous time's thinking that each time I'd restore the relationship, but no matter what I did I just became codependent. I never took the time to take care of myself and my needs, thinking that God would primarily take care of me. It took me a good three year's too shake off hell, and another year or two to let go of the feeling that I needed to pray.

I bought Bible's each time I fell back into the belief system, and tore them up each time I walked away. I suffered serious mental illness because of the critical overtone of the Bible, and that took a long time to recover from as well. I see Bible God much like my step father, and that make's sense because he was raised by Greek Orthodox parents. He was nothing but critical of everything I did, while giving me fake love note's all my life.

He thought that applying pain and fear was a genuine way to reach me. And many father's are like Bible God, that's because they've been raised with the religious mentality of that type. But I left that family behind and now I stand on my own two feet.

Well, i agree it's a tough Book..
The books of Samuel in particular, i find difficult to stomach. But also other OT books.
Grim and violent stuff often..
I don really understand God condoning such things from his people, or allowing horrible evils to happen at all, then and now.
But i guess they were different times.

What do you mean with "shake off hell"?
Were you taught you live forever by default, but it's either hell or heaven (as are most Christians, although there is the conditional immortality / annihilationism teaching gaining ground) ?
I have struggled deeply with that too. About 2 years.
The whole idea is hell itself.
I believe God of the Bible is the One True God, but i can't worship Him if He will put most people i know, who He did not draw towards Him, in an eternal conscious torment facility.
When i believed it (because so many Christians teach it i assumed it was so) i only hated God.
And so i would end up in eternal conscious torment myself.
A total mind f..
I was miserable or angry or both.
People told me this "Christ thing" did me no good.
But thank God i eventually found proper Bible exegesis on this subject.
John 3:16 said it all along. And the wages of sin is death. Not life in eternal torment.

Prayer is not mandatory.
Who says it is, is wrong.

For the rest, i can't see in your head how you interpreted things and i don't know how things were taught to you.
Sorry it didn't work out for you.
Sorry to hear you have anger towards God and Christians, although i think i can understand your position.
Hope you have a better life without this yoke.

 

[Hieronymus]

I doubt anyone can obtain a clear picture of Jesus from the Bible, as they are accounts based on the perspective of other people. I wouldn't want to follow the character of Jesus, the guy couldn't laugh.

I think of you were Him, you wouldn't find a lot to laugh about either.
He was very loving though.
But either way, we are not Jesus.
We can not be like Him.
We can laugh though.
But are we as caring?
Are we as wise?
Are we as holy (no hate, jealousy, greed etcetera) as He is?
No.
But that's okay.
We should try though, to be better humans.

 

[Hieronymus]

As skeptics often say four contraditory accounts of Jesus.

Those aren't skeptics, those are scoffers.
The fact that there are a few differences doesn't make it contradictory.
And they know that too..

 

[AntiCrash]

When you said that you grew weary of the critical overtone of the bible, and you said that your family is the ones who have had the greatest influence on your perception of it, I am thinking there is an opportunity there to recognise the nature of God as He is known by the ones who knew Him well (ie: St. John says "God is love"). But I have also read translations of the bible that do not speak with the same tone as the original writers, that doesn't really carry the same graciousness in the speech - the character that belongs to someone who is speaking without sin. Plus, you've probably had a lot of false doctrines hammered into you, and therefore come to see lots of injustice and unfair judgementalism in the attitudes that you think belong to the Christian faith, that I also hate to see. If you have noticed, I am quite expressive of calling them the antichrist teachings that they are.

So I do have some heart for you after you have said all of this, to want to look at those scriptures that you have read with critical overtones, and see whether I can't see if there is something in your belief of Christianity that is not quite aligned with the teachings of Jesus and His apostles.

What should I believe, the left or the right hand? You are telling me that your views on the Bible are right where other's Christian's wrong, so you are not aligned with the body of Christ.

 

[AntiCrash]

I think of you were Him, you wouldn't find a lot to laugh about either.
He was very loving though.
But either way, we are not Jesus.
We can not be like Him.
We can laugh though.
But are we as caring?
Are we as wise?
Are we as holy (no hate, jealousy, greed etcetera) as He is?
No.
But that's okay.
We should try though, to be better humans.

Even I try to be a better human, and thats without being told.

 

[Hieronymus]

What should I believe, the left or the right hand? You are telling me that your views on the Bible are right where other's are Christian's wrong, so you are not aligned with the body of Christ.

Who knows for certain what the Body of Christ is / who are a part of it or not?
Let's be real, Christianity is a mess.
False teachers, false teachings, ambiguous traditions, scandals, hypocrites...
It often seems the "true" Christians are very rare or just not part of the "organized religion"...

 

[Hieronymus]

Even I try to be a better human, and thats without being told.

But these are perhaps part of our western culture, which has (although dwindling) Christian morals and values (love your neighbour, don't steel, don't lie, etc...)
Or it's our conscience.
Or both.

The thing with the Christian Faith is that at some point you discover you are not a holy person.
Even while knowing better, humans have this evil streak and do wrong.
In most religions / theological views, we should do better in order to reach a higher level, like heaven or something similar.
I think it's only Christianity that acknowledges we fail at it AND teaches Grace, forgiveness, redemption and Salvation.
The slogan: John 3:16

 

[AntiCrash]

Who knows for certain what the Body of Christ is and who are a part of it or not?
Let's be real, Christianity is a mess.
False teachers, false teachings, ambiguous traditions, scandals, hypocrites...
It often seems the "true" Christians are very rare or just not part of the "organized religion"...

Yeah, there was once where the believer's of faith used to sell all they had and shared it around.

 

[Hieronymus]

Yeah, there was once where the believer's of faith used to sell all they had and shared it around.

Only very few do that..
And some do it thinking they can earn their salvation, which is still not right...
Others don't but have put their trust in Him. I think that's what it's about.
You read throughout the Bible that God is with those who put their trust in Him.
They're also forgiven when they make mistakes, even big mistakes.
Or when they walk away form Him, He will draw them back.

 

[AntiCrash]

Well, i agree it's a tough Book..
The books of Samuel in particular, i find difficult to stomach. But also other OT books.
Grim and violent stuff often..
I don really understand God condoning such things from his people, or allowing horrible evils to happen at all, then and now.
But i guess they were different times.

What do you mean with "shake off hell"?
Were you taught you live forever by default, but it's either hell or heaven (as are most Christians, although there is the conditional immortality / annihilationism teaching gaining ground) ?
I have struggled deeply with that too. About 2 years.
The whole idea is hell itself.
I believe God of the Bible is the One True God, but i can't worship Him if He will put most people i know, who He did not draw towards Him, in an eternal conscious torment facility.
When i believed it (because so many Christians teach it i assumed it was so) i only hated God.
And so i would end up in eternal conscious torment myself.
A total mind f..
I was miserable or angry or both.
People told me this "Christ thing" did me no good.
But thank God i eventually found proper Bible exegesis on this subject.
John 3:16 said it all along. And the wages of sin is death. Not life in eternal torment.

Prayer is not mandatory.
Who says it is, is wrong.

For the rest, i can't see in your head how you interpreted things and i don't know how things were taught to you.
Sorry it didn't work out for you.
Sorry to hear you have anger towards God and Christians, although i think i can understand your position.
Hope you have a better life without this yoke.

Thank you for actually understanding, I find that if I keep my options open I don't nearly run into issues. I guess I was very angry at the whole of Christianity, but that's to be expected when you are threatened at every corner.

 

[AntiCrash]

Only very few do that..
And some do it thinking they can earn their salvation, which is still not right...
Others don't but have put their trust in Him. I think that's what it's about.
You read throughout the Bible that God is with those who put their trust in Him.
They're also forgiven when they make mistakes, even big mistakes.
Or when they walk away form Him, He will draw them back.

Personally I could never go back, I'd just open deep wound's. Wound's caused by the belief system itself.

 

[AntiCrash]

 

[Spikey]

What should I believe, the left or the right hand? You are telling me that your views on the Bible are right where other's Christian's wrong, so you are not aligned with the body of Christ.

Why believe anything? If God loves us and has our best interests at heart surely he would have insured that there would be absolutely no confusion amongst us his children.
There would be no requirement for faith absolutely none.

The more time you spend speaking to Christians, the more confusing it gets, I mean, it isn't easy finding two Christians with identical views and it should be... All Christians should have identical views if their God truly loved them.

I know people will blame fallible humans for all the confusion, but I don't buy that.. Any loving God worth it's salt would have left no doubt in all his children's minds.
If you can create a universe then surely you can covey a simple message about your own existence, and your particular expectations of us as humans.

 

[AntiCrash]

Why believe anything? If God loves us and has our best interests at heart surely he would have insured that there would be absolutely no confusion amongst us his children.
There would be no requirement for faith absolutely none.

The more time you spend speaking to Christians, the more confusing it gets, I mean, it isn't easy finding two Christians with identical views and it should be... All Christians should have identical views if their God truly loved them.

I know people will blame fallible humans for all the confusion, but I don't buy that.. Any loving God worth it's salt would have left no doubt in all his children's minds.
If you can create a universe then surely you can covey a simple message about your own existence, and your particular expectations of us as humans.

Why do it with a book, that sound's like a human thing.

 

[Hieronymus]

Why do it with a book, that sound's like a human thing.

Well, we are humans, aren't we?
So why not?

 

[Spikey]

Why do it with a book, that sound's like a human thing.

Of course it is...

Well, we are humans, aren't we?
So why not?

Because the book is proof of nothing.

 

[AntiCrash]

Well, we are humans, aren't we?
So why not?

Brb.

 

[Hieronymus]

Of course it is...

Ah, you're an expert..

Because the book is proof of nothing.

Not true.
It proves this has been important to people for thousands of years.
It's the best preserved ancient book on the planet.

 

[Spikey]

Ah, you're an expert.. Not true.
It proves this has been important to people for thousands of years.
It's the best preserved ancient book on the planet.

I was talking about it's contents, not it's popularity.

 

[Kaon]

I used to struggle heap's when I first left Christianity, leaving God was like leaving a partner. I came back numerous time's thinking that each time I'd restore the relationship, but no matter what I did I just became codependent. I never took the time to take care of myself and my needs, thinking that God would primarily take care of me. It took me a good three year's too shake off hell, and another year or two to let go of the feeling that I needed to pray.

I bought Bible's each time I fell back into the belief system, and tore them up each time I walked away. I suffered serious mental illness because of the critical overtone of the Bible, and that took a long time to recover from as well. I see Bible God much like my step father, and that make's sense because he was raised by Greek Orthodox parents. He was nothing but critical of everything I did, while giving me fake love note's all my life.

He thought that applying pain and fear was a genuine way to reach me. And many father's are like Bible God, that's because they've been raised with the religious mentality of that type. But I left that family behind and now I stand on my own two feet.

Are you sure it was the Most High God that imposed that fear on you?

If you are, then you did right to leave in order to ascertain the spirit of fear and imposition you get when you indulge the bible canon. Our Father doesn't work on fear, otherwise He wouldn't have died for us, and literally gone to hell and back. (Of course, going to hell and back for your child is par the course of being a parent.) There are plenty of counterfeit spirits that drive people away from Him.

You aren't an only [spiritual] child; when you don't understand your Father, or think He is being a mean entity, you should consult your Big Brother, or brothers and sisters. Many of us have been where you are; the Word of God Himself has definitely felt the way you do.