Trinity

[Pagan]

The Spirit is not the Father or the Son, but the Spirit is God

The Bible has more to say about how the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit are three separate things.

When Jesus taught about prayer in Luke 11:13, He said, “...how much more will your Father in heaven give the Holy Spirit to those who ask him!” That implies that the Father is not the Holy Spirit.

Later during the Last Supper, Jesus said, “... the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in my name… ” That implies that the Son, who is Jesus, is not the Holy Spirit or the Father.

Also, the Holy Spirit is God.

According to Saint Luke in Acts 5:3-4 Peter said to Ananias, “... you have lied to the Holy Spirit … You have not lied just to human beings but to God.” Luke doesn’t say so directly, but the implication is that the Spirit is God.

In Paul’s letter to the Church at Corinth, he says in 1 Corinthians 6:11 “... you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God.” Again, the implication is that the Spirit is God.

 

[Albion]

The New Testament authors understood that the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit were each God, and that they each somehow were not each other. The words Trinity and Person did not exist in their vocabulary. An early Christian, third century theologian, Tertullian, coined the words, trinity and person, to describe the relationship of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit to God. The modern Christian Church uses Tertullian’s vocabulary, but it has not adopted his view of the relationship of the parts to the whole.

I don't follow the part about the modern church not using that view of the relationship. The view that is standard and almost universally accepted is what we have in the Niceno-Constantinopolitan Creed which is in synch with the NT.

 

[Pagan]

I don't follow the part about the modern church not using that view of the relationship. The view that is standard and almost universally accepted is what we have in the Niceno-Constantinopolitan Creed which is in synch with the NT.

As I understand Tertullian's position, he thought of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit as being parts of God rather than simply God, and he did not think of the Son and Holy Spirit as being equal to the Father. So you could say he had an answer, but not a final answer.

 

[Albion]

Well, "parts" may be objected to, but they are not "simply God," either.

Anyway, I entered into this only to caution about the word "persons," that this is not to be taken to mean what we all usually mean these days by that word.

 

[food4thought]

I am quite impressed with your careful study of this matter, Pagan.

 

[Pagan]

I am quite impressed with your careful study of this matter, Pagan.

Thank you. Would you ever use the word, being, to refer to the persons in the Trinity?

 

[food4thought]

Thank you. Would you ever use the word, being, to refer to the persons in the Trinity?

No, I don't think that would be appropriate... it would be more appropriate to say there are three "persons" in one Being. I don't think we are meant to know exactly what the Trinity is in reality. Note that the Bible speaks of one God and three specific "persons" (for lack of a better word), but nowhere in the entire Bible is the essence of the Trinity explained or described. If we needed to know, God would have given us revelation concerning Himself on this matter.

 

[ViaCrucis]

The nature of the persons, Father, Son, and Holy may be above my pay grade, but this is what I think I know right now.

The New Testament authors understood that the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit were each God, and that they each somehow were not each other. The words Trinity and Person did not exist in their vocabulary. An early Christian, third century theologian, Tertullian, coined the words, trinity and person, to describe the relationship of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit to God. The modern Christian Church uses Tertullian’s vocabulary, but it has not adopted his view of the relationship of the parts to the whole.

Just to add some extra information: The use of "person" stems from the use of Latin (Tertullian as the earliest Latin father we are aware is definitely influential here); from persona/personae; though this isn't without problem. The Latin persona/personae was used to translate the Greek prosopon/prosopa--words often used to designate the masks worn by actors in Greek drama. This language was controversial because it had been adopted by the Sabellians to speak of God as having "three masks" or "three faces" behind the face, behind the prosopon was, effectively, a single person. That is God put on the "Son mask" to be Jesus on earth, but wore the "Spirit mask" when being present in the Church as the Holy Spirit (etc).

Later writers did use the same words, that there were three prosopa (Greek) or personae (Latin) of one ousia (substance, essence, or being); but the most important language of formal Trinitarian thought was that there were three hypostases (Latin: subsistencia, English: subistences) of one ousia; and hypostasis and prosopon referred to the same concept. This was contrary to Sabellian usage, which said there were three prosopa of one hypostasis. By this Trinitarians argued, against Sabellian usage, that the three-ness of the Trinity was actual, not merely apparent, God did not put on different faces or masks, but was in fact Three even as He was One.

Which is why you'll find that we often are careful and seem to put an asterisk, as it were, behind the word "person". In order to clarify that we do not mean "separate individual" (as modern language might assume) or "a mask a single acting agent uses" (as ancient language might have assumed). God is therefore three persons in a specific, unique, and particular way.

-CryptoLutheran

 

[Pagan]

Just to add some extra information: The use of "person" stems from the use of Latin (Tertullian as the earliest Latin father we are aware is definitely influential here); from persona/personae; though this isn't without problem. The Latin persona/personae was used to translate the Greek prosopon/prosopa--words often used to designate the masks worn by actors in Greek drama. This language was controversial because it had been adopted by the Sabellians to speak of God as having "three masks" or "three faces" behind the face, behind the prosopon was, effectively, a single person. That is God put on the "Son mask" to be Jesus on earth, but wore the "Spirit mask" when being present in the Church as the Holy Spirit (etc).

Later writers did use the same words, that there were three prosopa (Greek) or personae (Latin) of one ousia (substance, essence, or being); but the most important language of formal Trinitarian thought was that there were three hypostases (Latin: subsistencia, English: subistences) of one ousia; and hypostasis and prosopon referred to the same concept. This was contrary to Sabellian usage, which said there were three prosopa of one hypostasis. By this Trinitarians argued, against Sabellian usage, that the three-ness of the Trinity was actual, not merely apparent, God did not put on different faces or masks, but was in fact Three even as He was One.

Which is why you'll find that we often are careful and seem to put an asterisk, as it were, behind the word "person". In order to clarify that we do not mean "separate individual" (as modern language might assume) or "a mask a single acting agent uses" (as ancient language might have assumed). God is therefore three persons in a specific, unique, and particular way.

-CryptoLutheran

The persons of the Trinity are somehow intransitive. The Father and the Son are God, but the Father is not the Son, and the Son is not the Father. Is that unique for the Trinity, or can other things not follow the transitive rule?

 

[ViaCrucis]

The persons of the Trinity are somehow intransitive. The Father and the Son are God, but the Father is not the Son, and the Son is not the Father. Is that unique for the Trinity, or can other things not follow the transitive rule?

Well one reason many don't like using analogies when referring to the Trinity is because they almost inevitably get it deeply wrong; and one reason for that is that God is entirely other and unlike anything of which we have experience. Thus God's wholly other-ness is to be insisted upon; there is nothing like Him in the whole wide breadth of all creation. If anything else can be said to not follow the transitive law, it would be for some other reason--God is fundamentally unlike anything else.

-CryptoLutheran

 

[Pagan]

Well one reason many don't like using analogies when referring to the Trinity is because they almost inevitably get it deeply wrong; and one reason for that is that God is entirely other and unlike anything of which we have experience. Thus God's wholly other-ness is to be insisted upon; there is nothing like Him in the whole wide breadth of all creation. If anything else can be said to not follow the transitive law, it would be for some other reason--God is fundamentally unlike anything else.

-CryptoLutheran

The Trinity's nontransitive nature may be related to the fact that the transitive rule usually applies to properties of bodies rather than to bodies themselves. If I understand correctly, God, the Father, the Son, and the Spirit are four bodies and do not represent properties.

 

[Pagan]

I have a Christian friend who insists that Trinity defines Christianity. To deny the Trinity is denying Christianity.

Well, lots of folks like their own, private definitions of words. For example, my Muslim neighbors insist that Muslim terrorists are not Muslims.

My wife had an Irish uncle. He worked as a New York City police officer for decades. One day he came upon a Communist demonstration in Times Square. To disperse the crowd he told them, "Be gettin alonq with yah now."

One of the demonstrators said, "But officer, I'm a Socialist. We are anticommunists."

My wife's uncle told him, "I'll not be caring what kind of a Communist ya are. We'll be havin no communists around here."

A Christian is a person who believes that sin is the problem and salvation is the solution. Christians disagree to various degrees about almost everything else, the Trinity being one of them. For example, in 1553 (or there abouts) the Christians of Geneva burned Michael Servetus to death for "denying the Trinity." According to Wikipedia.

For me, disagreement has a positive side. For example, the Bible doesn't say what is as much as it infers what could become. We should play less attention to what it says and more attention to its derivative. For example, the Trinity is a derivative. I know that sounds cryptic, but I'm not sure how to say it.

 

[chilehed]

If my Christian grandchildren ask me about the Trinity, may I say: that the Trinity organizes the Bible's information about God, the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit, and how they relate to each other?

That wouldn't be an accurate way to put it, no, because it appears to deny that there's a real distinction between the Persons of the Trinity. I suggest studying the Catechism of the Catholic Church, starting at paragraph 249.

 

[Pagan]

That wouldn't be an accurate way to put it, no, because it appears to deny that there's a real distinction between the Persons of the Trinity. I suggest studying the Catechism of the Catholic Church, starting at paragraph 249.

Yes, I understand. Maybe I had not quite, yet learned that when I wrote the original posting.

 

[adhidw]

If my Christian grandchildren ask me about the Trinity, may I say: that the Trinity organizes the Bible's information about God, the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit, and how they relate to each other?

God the Father, God the Son and God the Holy Spirit.
Before we dig profoundly the topic above, we need to know first that; The realm in which we live is a temporal realm, it means that this realm has a period of its existence at a time when it is surpassed that it must no longer exist in its place.
Almighty God is an immortal being unlimited by the dimension of space and time, and He is also the alpha and omega, meaning that even if the earth we live in has been over God still remains.
If the earth we live in is a temporary realm, then the creatures that exist on this earth are also temporary (only when this temporal existence exists), if God is eternal then the man He created living on this earth also is not for His ultimate purpose but only for a while wandering or sojourning then surely move to the eternal world (where God is), But how could this temporal being be in eternal realm that is not bounded by space and time limitation?, surely they not fit to live in this eternal realm?. The conclusion is the spirit of man that will come eternally and this human spirit surely is not a natural product of this perishable realm , means that the human spirit must be the eternal realm product which was placed by God to exist in the physical body of man to temporarily wander / sojourn in This perishable earth for a particular purpose of God which had been planned since before this perishable world was formed.
Zec12:1 The burden of the word of the LORD for Israel, saith the LORD, which stretcheth forth the heavens, and layeth the foundation of the earth, and formeth the spirit of man within him.

Ecc12:7 Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it

Jer1:5 Before I formed thee in the belly I knew thee; and before thou camest forth out of the womb I sanctified thee, and I ordained thee a prophet unto the nations

Then what is His particular purpose for His people while sojourning this perishable earth?
If we learn from the Bible that eternal realm is not limited by time, it means that whenever its existence will remain flat its graph / no change / its inhabitant does not get older or more and more or more clever or more stupid / steady, but not for this perishable realm there is born there is dead there is young there is old there is clever there is fool, so His particular purpose for His people while sojourning in this perishable earth is Growth for growth is not exist in eternal realm.

Rom8:20 For the creature was made subject to vanity, not willingly, but by reason of him who hath subjected the same in hope

1Pet1:17 And if ye call on the Father, who without respect of persons judgeth according to every man's work, pass the time of your sojourning here in fear:

Heb5:12 For when for the time ye ought to be teachers, ye have need that one teach you again which be the first principles of the oracles of God; and are become such as have need of milk, and not of strong meat

2Pet3:18 But grow in grace, and in the knowledge of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ. To him be glory both now and for ever. Amen

If God's particular purpose for His people is growth (obviously, the man initially does not know the difference between good and evil), then what is God's ultimate goal for His creation?
Glorifying God: the human mouth and heart say that "glory is for God alone".

Isa43:7 Even every one that is called by my name: for I have created him for my glory, I have formed him; yea, I have made him

Eph1:4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love

If the ultimate goal (glorifying God) can be achieved simply without passing into the perishable realm, God surely chose this simplest way, but it turn out that sojourning through this perishable realm is the only way that the ultimate goal can be reached.

For man can glorify God, man must come to understand that the salvation (living in eternal realm with God) is the grace of God alone.
Salvation= grace of God alone, then the men must understand and agree that they will never be able to achieve the salvation through their own efforts what ever those sound good.

Isa64:6 But we are all as an unclean thing, and all our righteousnesses are as filthy rags; and we all do fade as a leaf; and our iniquities, like the wind, have taken us away

Isa26:12 LORD, thou wilt ordain peace for us: for thou also hast wrought all our works in us


Then start gradually God teaches His people through His word which is recorded from Genesis to Revelation, and His people verify theirselves.

First; In the premise of "Salvation = the grace of God alone" there must be the Chosen people which means the spiritual beings who were sent by God from the eternal Realm to the perishable realm while it is in the process of development / purification until finally win / understood, or only those whose names were written in the book of life Since before the creation of the world, or surely the devil can not participate even though he also exists in the temporal realm and also dwells in the natural human body / earth dust Gen3: 14, then here appears It is clear that there is a difference between those who are the chosen people, and those who are born of flesh where these very people are possible to become the camp of the devil ----- > the chosen = born of God (in the physical body there is a human spirit which God sent to wander/sojourn On earth), relating to this then God is the Father of this chosen people, there is also the man of the world = the dust = born of flesh = possible to be the devil's camp= possible the devil surely will be the father of these men (John 8:44).

Rom9:7 Neither, because they are the seed of Abraham, are they all children: but, In Isaac shall thy seed be called.
9:8 That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed.

John1:12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:
1:13 Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.

So it is clear: in order to His people/the chosen understood that "salvation = the grace of God alone" then; God must introduce Himself as the Father of His people/ God the father.

Isa63:16 Doubtless thou art our father, though Abraham be ignorant of us, and Israel acknowledge us not: thou, O LORD, art our father, our redeemer; thy name is from everlasting.



It must also be taught to them/His people/the chosen that while they are sojourning/wandering in this perishable earth they surely will be kept by God Himself as a guide, entertainer, helper, that they surely will not be a meal of the devil, here: God must introduce Himself as the Holy Spirit.

Luke11:24 When the unclean spirit is gone out of a man, he walketh through dry places, seeking rest; and finding none, he saith, I will return unto my house whence I came out.
11:25 And when he cometh, he findeth it swept and garnished.
11:26 Then goeth he, and taketh to him seven other spirits more wicked than himself; and they enter in, and dwell there: and the last state of that man is worse than the first

Isa44:2 Thus saith the LORD that made thee, and formed thee from the womb, which will help thee; Fear not, O Jacob, my servant; and thou, Jesurun, whom I have chosen.

Isa51:12 I, even I, am he that comforteth you: who art thou, that thou shouldest be afraid of a man that shall die, and of the son of man which shall be made as grass;
Isa46:3 Hearken unto me, O house of Jacob, and all the remnant of the house of Israel, which are borne by me from the belly, which are carried from the womb:
46:4 And even to your old age I am he; and even to hoar hairs will I carry you: I have made, and I will bear; even I will carry, and will deliver you




Finally His people also should be compelled to witnessing the manifestation of the God Grace that was demonstrated by the Messiah/ the Redeemer/ the Savoir through crucifixion and resurrection ( cause naturally they will never grasp and admit about it), where in the OT also had been revealed well that the savoir is only God Himself, the redeemer is only God Himself ( Isa 49:26 , Isa 43:11, Isa 47:4) , so relating to this event : God must introduce Himself as God the Son.

Hence until here it is clear that God the Father, God the Son, God the Holy Spirit are the identities of God Himself so that His people who were sent to sojourn to this perishable realm "well understood " that Salvation = only by God's Grace.

Few additions ; If God did not create men in this perishable realm, then there must have been an eternal realm whose inhabitants were God, angels and demons (the spirits), where the angel had no gender, would God introduce Himself as God the Father, God the Son, God the Holy Spirit to the angels? Of course not because the term is very strange to them who is genderless, not able to multiply, and who cannot interchange his position (from devil to faithful angel vice versa).

Isa44:24 Thus saith the LORD, thy redeemer, and he that formed thee from the womb, I am the LORD that maketh all things; that stretcheth forth the heavens alone; that spreadeth abroad the earth by myself;

Can His people finally understand? Salvation= God's grace alone if God did not introduce Himself as God the Father, God the Son, God the Holy Spirit to men?.

 

[Truthfrees]

MOD HAT

In the Exploring Christianity forum, a non-christian may start a thread to ask questions, and only Nicene Christians can answer the OP.

Christians can not debate each other. They can only answer the non-christian OP questions.

Posts have been removed for non-Christians answering the OP.

 

[Pagan]

God the Father, God the Son and God the Holy Spirit.
Before we dig profoundly the topic above, we need to know first that; The realm in which we live is a temporal realm, it means that this realm has a period of its existence at a time when it is surpassed that it must no longer exist in its place.
Almighty God is an immortal being unlimited by the dimension of space and time, and He is also the alpha and omega, meaning that even if the earth we live in has been over God still remains.
If the earth we live in is a temporary realm, then the creatures that exist on this earth are also temporary (only when this temporal existence exists), if God is eternal then the man He created living on this earth also is not for His ultimate purpose but only for a while wandering or sojourning then surely move to the eternal world (where God is), But how could this temporal being be in eternal realm that is not bounded by space and time limitation?, surely they not fit to live in this eternal realm?. The conclusion is the spirit of man that will come eternally and this human spirit surely is not a natural product of this perishable realm , means that the human spirit must be the eternal realm product which was placed by God to exist in the physical body of man to temporarily wander / sojourn in This perishable earth for a particular purpose of God which had been planned since before this perishable world was formed.
Zec12:1 The burden of the word of the LORD for Israel, saith the LORD, which stretcheth forth the heavens, and layeth the foundation of the earth, and formeth the spirit of man within him.

Ecc12:7 Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it

Jer1:5 Before I formed thee in the belly I knew thee; and before thou camest forth out of the womb I sanctified thee, and I ordained thee a prophet unto the nations

Then what is His particular purpose for His people while sojourning this perishable earth?
If we learn from the Bible that eternal realm is not limited by time, it means that whenever its existence will remain flat its graph / no change / its inhabitant does not get older or more and more or more clever or more stupid / steady, but not for this perishable realm there is born there is dead there is young there is old there is clever there is fool, so His particular purpose for His people while sojourning in this perishable earth is Growth for growth is not exist in eternal realm.

Rom8:20 For the creature was made subject to vanity, not willingly, but by reason of him who hath subjected the same in hope

1Pet1:17 And if ye call on the Father, who without respect of persons judgeth according to every man's work, pass the time of your sojourning here in fear:

Heb5:12 For when for the time ye ought to be teachers, ye have need that one teach you again which be the first principles of the oracles of God; and are become such as have need of milk, and not of strong meat

2Pet3:18 But grow in grace, and in the knowledge of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ. To him be glory both now and for ever. Amen

If God's particular purpose for His people is growth (obviously, the man initially does not know the difference between good and evil), then what is God's ultimate goal for His creation?
Glorifying God: the human mouth and heart say that "glory is for God alone".

Isa43:7 Even every one that is called by my name: for I have created him for my glory, I have formed him; yea, I have made him

Eph1:4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love

If the ultimate goal (glorifying God) can be achieved simply without passing into the perishable realm, God surely chose this simplest way, but it turn out that sojourning through this perishable realm is the only way that the ultimate goal can be reached.

For man can glorify God, man must come to understand that the salvation (living in eternal realm with God) is the grace of God alone.
Salvation= grace of God alone, then the men must understand and agree that they will never be able to achieve the salvation through their own efforts what ever those sound good.

Isa64:6 But we are all as an unclean thing, and all our righteousnesses are as filthy rags; and we all do fade as a leaf; and our iniquities, like the wind, have taken us away

Isa26:12 LORD, thou wilt ordain peace for us: for thou also hast wrought all our works in us


Then start gradually God teaches His people through His word which is recorded from Genesis to Revelation, and His people verify theirselves.

First; In the premise of "Salvation = the grace of God alone" there must be the Chosen people which means the spiritual beings who were sent by God from the eternal Realm to the perishable realm while it is in the process of development / purification until finally win / understood, or only those whose names were written in the book of life Since before the creation of the world, or surely the devil can not participate even though he also exists in the temporal realm and also dwells in the natural human body / earth dust Gen3: 14, then here appears It is clear that there is a difference between those who are the chosen people, and those who are born of flesh where these very people are possible to become the camp of the devil ----- > the chosen = born of God (in the physical body there is a human spirit which God sent to wander/sojourn On earth), relating to this then God is the Father of this chosen people, there is also the man of the world = the dust = born of flesh = possible to be the devil's camp= possible the devil surely will be the father of these men (John 8:44).

Rom9:7 Neither, because they are the seed of Abraham, are they all children: but, In Isaac shall thy seed be called.
9:8 That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed.

John1:12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:
1:13 Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.

So it is clear: in order to His people/the chosen understood that "salvation = the grace of God alone" then; God must introduce Himself as the Father of His people/ God the father.

Isa63:16 Doubtless thou art our father, though Abraham be ignorant of us, and Israel acknowledge us not: thou, O LORD, art our father, our redeemer; thy name is from everlasting.



It must also be taught to them/His people/the chosen that while they are sojourning/wandering in this perishable earth they surely will be kept by God Himself as a guide, entertainer, helper, that they surely will not be a meal of the devil, here: God must introduce Himself as the Holy Spirit.

Luke11:24 When the unclean spirit is gone out of a man, he walketh through dry places, seeking rest; and finding none, he saith, I will return unto my house whence I came out.
11:25 And when he cometh, he findeth it swept and garnished.
11:26 Then goeth he, and taketh to him seven other spirits more wicked than himself; and they enter in, and dwell there: and the last state of that man is worse than the first

Isa44:2 Thus saith the LORD that made thee, and formed thee from the womb, which will help thee; Fear not, O Jacob, my servant; and thou, Jesurun, whom I have chosen.

Isa51:12 I, even I, am he that comforteth you: who art thou, that thou shouldest be afraid of a man that shall die, and of the son of man which shall be made as grass;
Isa46:3 Hearken unto me, O house of Jacob, and all the remnant of the house of Israel, which are borne by me from the belly, which are carried from the womb:
46:4 And even to your old age I am he; and even to hoar hairs will I carry you: I have made, and I will bear; even I will carry, and will deliver you




Finally His people also should be compelled to witnessing the manifestation of the God Grace that was demonstrated by the Messiah/ the Redeemer/ the Savoir through crucifixion and resurrection ( cause naturally they will never grasp and admit about it), where in the OT also had been revealed well that the savoir is only God Himself, the redeemer is only God Himself ( Isa 49:26 , Isa 43:11, Isa 47:4) , so relating to this event : God must introduce Himself as God the Son.

Hence until here it is clear that God the Father, God the Son, God the Holy Spirit are the identities of God Himself so that His people who were sent to sojourn to this perishable realm "well understood " that Salvation = only by God's Grace.

Few additions ; If God did not create men in this perishable realm, then there must have been an eternal realm whose inhabitants were God, angels and demons (the spirits), where the angel had no gender, would God introduce Himself as God the Father, God the Son, God the Holy Spirit to the angels? Of course not because the term is very strange to them who is genderless, not able to multiply, and who cannot interchange his position (from devil to faithful angel vice versa).

Isa44:24 Thus saith the LORD, thy redeemer, and he that formed thee from the womb, I am the LORD that maketh all things; that stretcheth forth the heavens alone; that spreadeth abroad the earth by myself;

Can His people finally understand? Salvation= God's grace alone if God did not introduce Himself as God the Father, God the Son, God the Holy Spirit to men?.

You must have put a lot of work into this, but I don't understand how this says anything about the Trinity.

 

[adhidw]

You must have put a lot of work into this, but I don't understand how this says anything about the Trinity.

Trinity: this word is never said in the Bible, this word came from our predecessors in their effort to explain : who is God the Father, God the Son and God the Holy Spirit .

Actually the Bible had already explained quite clear about that , so i my self don not brother about trinity .

 

[spockrates]

The Trinity's nontransitive nature may be related to the fact that the transitive rule usually applies to properties of bodies rather than to bodies themselves. If I understand correctly, God, the Father, the Son, and the Spirit are four bodies and do not represent properties.

Hi, Pagan. Great questions! So a simple (perhaps oversimplified?) way some Christians use to describe the Trinity is this:

God is one what in three who's.

The what, or thing, or it of God can also be called the substance or being of God, of which there is only one.

The who's of God are of course the Father, Son and Holy Spirit, which are persons who are distinct but not separate.

So there is one God in three persons.

There are also people who are Christians but deny the trinitarian doctrine, such as Oneness Pentecostals, some Church of God denominations, some Unitarians and Mormons and others. So one shouldn't assume a self-protest Christian accepts the idea.

 

[timbo3]

MOD HAT

In the Exploring Christianity forum, a non-christian may start a thread to ask questions, and only Nicene Christians can answer the OP.

Christians can not debate each other. They can only answer the non-christian OP questions.

Posts have been removed for non-Christians answering the OP.

Okay, I will continue this discussion outside this forum.