Trinity

[Norbert L]

No sorry you're making a lot of grammatical assumptions here which doesn't hold true. You don't walk away from proper sentence structure just to try to fit your point of view in to the scripture. What verse 6 says is that the kingdom of God would be restored to Israel and if you're not sure what the kingdom of God is then read Matthew he speaks about it a lot.

Would you please explain how there are grammatical assumptions which don't hold true. What is the proper sentence structure?

I agree about the advice about what the kingdom of God is, that it can be found in Matthew. It is also found in numerous other places within scripture. But my comment was portraying honest questions about what would of the disciples been thinking. What was their mindset at the time? It's not about what we think they said, that would miss the point they are making about the kingdom of God.

 

[jerry kelso]

NO I am not playing the Devil's advocate. I am simply pointing one some serious problems with some of the posts on the Trinity. I realize that many follow what is called a social theory of the Trinity, the notion that the Trinity is a harmonious society of three divine personalities. However, that still amounts to polytheism. Just as three men working in harmony are still three men, so three Gods working in harmony are still three Gods.

hoghead1,

1. The trinity which is triune in nature and the number of unity. The bible teaches compound unity and the Father and the Son did not come into reality until the messiah was born.

2. This means that either one believes like the Christadelphian and that the messiah is not divine and was and is human.

3. If one believes strict monotheism then most would believe in three offices and believe the Holy Spirit is the Spirit of the father. However, the father was not present as the father in the old testament and the Spirit was present executing different operations.
Jehovah is used in many compound names of Deity and all three are called God. God the Father, God the Son, God the Holy Spirit.

4. The Hebrew word for "Lord" in Deuteronomy 6:4 and 7600 times in the Old Testament means the self-existent, Eternal and Immutable One, Or unity. It doesn't say how many persons are in the One {unified} Lord, but the scriptures mention three persons who are called Lord and who are self-existent and Eternal and can be all be called Jehovah. There are scriptures to show that all three are called Lord.

5. The reason the Godhead are called one God is because they have always been, always are and always will be one in unity that cannot be broken. God used this one God especially to combat the polytheism of God that the heathens worshipped and they were all false Gods who had there own agenda and were never always in unity with each other. So while the false Gods may be poly as in plural and more than one they are not one in unbroken unity.

6. The biggest obstacle of the trinity is the number one in one person which makes no real sense. God could be unified with himself and is but his desire is to be one in spirit, mind and soul with his family. There is one body of Christ but many members in the one body of Christ. God is all about desiring a family which deals with relationship. To have a relationship deals with more than one. In this context of logic there should be no problem in believing in a trinity.
I actually believe because there are spirit bodies and God is a spirit they each have a separate body which would be a spirit body and of higher substance than man. Now I understand there are objections to this but why?
The objection seems to be if one believes in three separate beings in God the belief is that God is lowered down to polytheism which would contradict monotheism or being one.
The other objection would be that God being a spirit cannot have a body because he would occupy space and time like a material body and this is supposedly impossible because he created time and space.
I will stop here for you to think about it and if you would like to talk more about it then I would be glad to. Thanks, Jerry kelso

 

[Emmy]

Dear Saya Otanachi. The Bible does mention Holy Father, Holy Son, and Holy Spirit, three spirits, but One Great God.
God Father made Man in His image, God Son died that we might live, ( Jesus paid our sin-debts with His Life ) and God Holy Spirit helps us to do God`s Will on Earth) In Matthew 22: 35-40: we are told by Jesus: " The first and great Commandment is: Love God with all thy heart, with all thy soul, and with all thy mind. The second is like it:
love thy neighbour as thyself." How do we follow? Matthew 7: 7-10: tells us: " Ask and you shall receive," we ask God for Love and Joy, then thank God and share all love and joy with our neighbour. God will see our loving efforts, and God will approve and Bless us.
The Bible tells us: " Repent and be Born Again," we give up our selfish wishes and wants, and start loving and caring,
being kind and always friendly. The Holy Spirit will help and guide us, and Jesus our Saviour will lead us all the way:
JESUS IS THE WAY. We keep asking for Love and Joy, and keep sharing all love and joy with our neighbour.
( neighbour is all we know and all we meet, friend and not friend) We might stumble and forget at times, but then we
ask for love and joy and keep sharing all with our neighbour. A Christian`s weapon is love and joy, forgiveness and always friendly words. Love is very catching, and love changes all unkindness and wrong behaviour. We will soon be sons and daughters which our Heavenly Father wants. To love will change everything for the better, and we will soon be the men and women which God wants us to be. I say this with love, Saya Otanachi. Greetings from Emmy, your sister in Christ.

 

[FredVB]

There are passages in the Bible, showing Yahweh is the one and only real God, the heavenly Father is certainly this God, Christ the Son is the incarnation of Logos, the Word with God who is God, and who is in prophecies speaking of Yahweh God, and the Spirit of God is spoken of in the role of God, and is listed in unity with the Father and the Son.

 

[mikpat]

Again, the Holy Trinity, the belief, a supernatural mystery requiring faith——i. e. there are mysteries concealed in God which can be known on the basis of Divine Revelation only. Trying to reason out the Holy Trinity by reason, investigating, examining, proving, petri dishes, microscopes etc…..on purely rational grounds will result in complete failure.

There are three Divine Persons in one God———-it is not polytheism——-as one poster infers. This polytheism thing, is a sample of going astray when human reason attempts to figure out the Trinity.

The Father is wholly in the Son and the Holy Spirit, the Son is wholly in the Father and the Holy Spirit, and the Holy Spirit is wholly in the Father and the Son.
John 10, 30. "I and the Father are one——Christ testifies—-that the Father is in Him and that He is in the Father."



Human reasn will never figure out the Holy Trinity, even if the persons have a doctorate cum laude and blah blah blah other pompous titles. …….

AMDG

 

[StanJ]

NO I am not playing the Devil's advocate. I am simply pointing one some serious problems with some of the posts on the Trinity. I realize that many follow what is called a social theory of the Trinity, the notion that the Trinity is a harmonious society of three divine personalities. However, that still amounts to polytheism. Just as three men working in harmony are still three men, so three Gods working in harmony are still three Gods.

Sorry, but that is your conclusion not the reality. Again read the Shema.

 

[Goatee]

Humans will never be able to fathom out the Trinity

 

[StanJ]

I earned my doctorate via the conjoint program between a major university and a noted PCUSA seminary. I did my dissertation on process pneumatology and, with some revisions, it was published in book form by Susquehanna University Press. I also am the translator of two published volumes of Calvin's sermons, which enabled my to examine his exegetical technique very carefully.

Okay well this fills in the big blank as far as I'm concerned. So basically you don't believe in the omniscience of God or his foreknowledge?
This explains why you're not willing to be pinned down by any one particular thought on the holy spirit because contrary to what the Bible says you believe that God is constantly changing even though we read in his word that he does not.
I personally didn't realize that Monsieur Cauvin's work needed to be translated. I suppose it is to look for something that fits into your worldview of process theology? In my opinion Jean Cauvin was a failed exeget and simply inserted his already fallacious assumptions into the scriptures that he thought he knew. Thank you for your honesty. I now have a better understanding of where you're coming from.

 

[StanJ]

Humans will never be able to fathom out the Trinity

Maybe not totally but we have a good enough working idea from the scriptures that will suffice for anybody that walks by faith.

 

[StanJ]

Would you please explain how there are grammatical assumptions which don't hold true. What is the proper sentence structure?
I agree about the advice about what the kingdom of God is, that it can be found in Matthew. It is also found in numerous other places within scripture. But my comment was portraying honest questions about what would of the disciples been thinking. What was their mindset at the time? It's not about what we think they said, that would miss the point they are making about the kingdom of God.

Just what I said. You're making assumptions in the grammar that don't hold up under solid grammatical rules. The context shows exactly what is being conveyed in this scripture. I would have absolutely no idea about what the disciples were thinking but I do know what they were being instructed about and what they said. The point is you don't read scripture based on what the thought process would have been of the people mentioned because the inspiration of God supersedes any human thought process. The kingdom of God is a spiritual realm where God rules in individual hearts. The Kingdom of Heaven is similar and is only used by Matthew.

 

[Goatee]

Maybe not totally but we have a good enough working idea from the scriptures that will suffice for anybody that walks by faith.

Depends who is interpreting those scriptures!

 

[StanJ]

Depends who is interpreting those scriptures!

Those who can rightly divide the word of Truth.

 

[lilac sheep]

Does the bible teach the trinity? Many seem to deny the trinity since the word is not found

yes. the Bible clearly teaches of Father, son and holy spirit. three in one. man has applied the word 'trinity' to this teaching, altho the Bible itself never uses that word. it is merely semantics and nothing to become confused over.

 

[faroukfarouk]

yes. the Bible clearly teaches of Father, son and holy spirit. three in one. man has applied the word 'trinity' to this teaching, altho the Bible itself never uses that word. it is merely semantics and nothing to become confused over.

It's a thoroughly Biblical truth underlying the term Trinity. John 13 thru 17 has so many references to Father, Son and Holy Spirit, as does John's First Epistle. This truth is at the end of Matthew 28 and in Romans 8, also.

 

[Colter]

The Christian Trinity was born out of speculation like so many concepts within and outside of the Bible.

 

[lilac sheep]

The Christian Trinity was born out of speculation like so many concepts within and outside of the Bible.

hi colter. i see no reason whatsoever to dispute the biblical teaching regarding the three in one nature of our Lord. it is not merely a concept, but a grounded biblical teaching. i do not understand how it has been such a topic for debate when the bible passages are clear about this teaching. father, son and holy spirit.

 

[StanJ]

The Christian Trinity was born out of speculation like so many concepts within and outside of the Bible.

It actually was born out of the understanding of biblical concepts within the Bible and can only be understood and appreciated by those who know how to properly read the Bible.

 

[lilac sheep]

wow. having at least attempted to read and follow the preceding conversation, i thank the Lord that i am relatively stupid and i am SO thankful that my salvation does not depend upon my intelligence.

 

[Colter]

It actually was born out of the understanding of biblical concepts within the Bible and can only be understood and appreciated by those who know how to properly read the Bible.

Due to the diversity of concepts within the current book list that comprises the Bible, it can be used to support all of the competing concepts among people who say their theology can be defended by a proper reading. Doctrines are overlaid onto the Bible for authoritative sourcing.

 

[lilac sheep]

Due to the diversity of concepts within the current book list that comprises the Bible, it can be used to support all of the competing concepts among people who say their theology can be defended by a proper reading. Doctrines are overlaid onto the Bible for authoritative sourcing.

scripture speaks of father, son and holy spirit. man has condensed this to 'the trinity' . as for theologies or ideologies or any other concept that seeks to raise mans intellect above the scripture, they are inerrant. unlike scripture. if we aer truly seeking the Lord, and truly attempting to understand the written word of God, it makes sense to put any over intellectualising to one side. the scriptures were not written to be the sole prize of the intellectual elitists. . they were written to reach the hearts and minds of any mortal who would seek to know the lord. we have to put aside our intellectual blockagesand pride if we are to appreciate the meaning of scripture. it is not intended to be understood by a few elite, but to be fed upon by the spiritually hungry. again, i see no cause to dispute the scriptural passages that refer to what some people in christianity now call the trinity. as i stated earlier, it is merely a matter of semantics, and they need not prevent us from absorbing and understanding an original truth.