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Trinity

DrBubbaLove

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I think it is also difficult to say God created Jesus before Jesus created eveything else as Scriptures clearly say that before anything was made, Jesus was there. The meaning behind saying "proceeding or preceedth from" is not a creative process and is what is understood by saying "eternally begotten". It also the idea behind saying we cannot fathom of thinking of a God the Father being without His Word (Jesus). The implication of that would be that the Father is unable to express Himself before supposedly "creating" His Word. That hardly seems a fitting view of the Father. Also the thought behind saying we cannot fathom the two without the Love (Spirit) between them being very Real. The construct of the Trinity has implications far beyond just how we describe God. It impacts many other aspects that are foundational for our beliefs.
 
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Jonathan95 said:
The Egpyptians chose not to be part of GOd's people.

I think God's people are his not by choice, and ethnicity has no factor.

What do you mean you believe "Gods in the pillar"? Don't you believe the Word of God that says it was God? THere's no "Gods", only ONE God (Father, Son and Holy Ghost). "Gods" like Baal aren't Gods, God makes that clear in scripture a lot.

If it was clear to you then you would be familiar with the pillar of cloud that was with Moses through out his journey from Egypt to the edge of the promised land.

No gods?

Psalms 82:6
I have said, Ye are gods;
and all of you are children of the most High.

Or

2 Corinthians 4:4
In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.

You say one, but then list three. Jesus said to pray to God the Father. The origin of the word god comes from Sanskrit texts and it means to invoke.

Baal actually means lord in Hebrew.

I believe the bible is secretly used as an outlet for satanism/Baal worship. I now understand all the genealogies and numerical values in the OT are used for pagan practices.

Another name for Baal (the phoenician deity) is the rider of the clouds. Psalm 68:4 and the symbolism used in the construction of the temple is evident paganism.
Sexual overtones that go right over the uninitiated persons head.
... What you think is not biblical, like that Jesus isn't God. Read Gospel of John. Jesus was God in the flesh, yes he could be tempted, yet be God in the flesh.
Close, Jesus is the Son of God in the flesh. If you think he is God and can be tempted, James 1:13 contradicts your theology.

1 Corinthians 15:50
Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God.

What does this verse mean for the flesh that the Word became?

Jesus was on earth? How does that refute the fact that he was God in the flesh? It was YHWH God who died on the cross. You can debate as much as you want and try to find "loopholes" but it doesn't refute the fact that Jesus was God in the flesh on earth, and that he is God. Since the Word of God doesn't contradict itself.
John 3:16?...
Why didn't Jesus say pray to the Son, Spirit and the Father?
Because a triadic god is Jewish and Egyptian paganism.

Why didn't Jesus say are Father in heaven and earth?
Because the father in the world is the devil himself.

The first letters of each of these four words spell YHWH, the name of God.

The name of God is ineffable. The names like Most High, Light, Love, Spirit, the Word are all understatements for God.

Peace be with you friend.
 
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Phantasman

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The name of God is ineffable. The names like Most High, Light, Love, Spirit, the Word are all understatements for God.

Peace be with you friend.

It is not his name as much as what he is.

The Savior said: "He Who Is is ineffable. No principle knew him, no authority, no subjection, nor any creature from the foundation of the world until now, except he alone, and anyone to whom he wants to make revelation through him who is from First Light. From now on, I am the Great Savior. For he is immortal and eternal. Now he is eternal, having no birth; for everyone who has birth will perish. He is unbegotten, having no beginning; for everyone who has a beginning has an end. Since no one rules over him, he has no name; for whoever has a name is the creation of another." -The Sophia of Jesus Christ
 
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I want to know what you all think about the Trinity, because this topic just caught my attention as I look at it more deeper a few day ago. According to Christianity, the Trinity make up the Godhead: Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. They are 3 distinct person, each having its own role. If the Holy Spirit is the third person of the Trinity, then the Holy Spirit is not the Father. Using this same logic Jesus could not be God. But most of us would agree based on Christian doctrine, Jesus is God. Can somebody explain this?

Furthermore, what I'm really concern at the moment is that if the Holy Spirit is not the Father then it cannot be God. Wikipedia states that the Holy Spirit is GOD. So here I am confused. If the Holy Spirit is God, then wouldn't that in conflict with the Father being the one God? If we're to accept this, then are we saying there is 3 gods? I don't think so. It is still the same God, but how can the Holy Spirit and Jesus be God if they are distinct? Anybody want to comment on that?

I am as confused about it as you are. So I do not worry about it. It makes no difference to me, these three symbols.

What exists is within us and around us. The spirit is Holy. God is a word, the word is fleshed in a higher love. The father is the beginning and the end.

All are the same in the end. Do you understand?

If you do not understand, consider this.

Father, forgive them for they do not know what they do. A request of the last breath, the most important breath.

If that request is followed, you will know who follows it.

Who can forgive all? The father of them all.

Who will come when Adam calls? Who will know him when he comes?
How can you raise up a building, if you leave the foundation below the earth?
How can you build an ark, if you cannot see the wood?
How can anything ascend, if you cannot see who is transcendent?
How can you say your name into telephone, if there is no receiver?
 
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Jonathan95

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If it was clear to you then you would be familiar with the pillar of cloud that was with Moses through out his journey from Egypt to the edge of the promised land.

No gods?

Psalms 82:6
I have said, Ye are gods;
and all of you are children of the most High.

Strong's H430 - 'elohiym a) rulers, judges



2 Corinthians 4:4
In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.

Strong's G2316 - theos
a) refers to the things of God
b) his counsels, interests, things due to him
4) whatever can in any respect be likened unto God, or resemble him in any way
a) God's representative or viceregent
1) of magistrates and judges


You say one, but then list three. Jesus said to pray to God the Father. The origin of the word god comes from Sanskrit texts and it means to invoke.

Baal actually means lord in Hebrew.

Good that I don't refer to Baal when I confess Jesus is Lord then, but rather that he's my Master.

Is Jesus this for you? "kyrios". As I said.. Kyrios means Jesus is YaHWeH. In the Greek translation of the Bible that was used in the time of Jesus, the personal name of God, YAHWEH, was translated into Greek as (kyrios), usually translated into English as Lord or Master.

1) he to whom a person or thing belongs, about which he has power of deciding; master, lord
a) the possessor and disposer of a thing

(Romans 10:9) That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.

(1 Corinthians 12:3) Wherefore I give you to understand, that no man speaking by the Spirit of God calleth Jesus accursed: and that no man can say that Jesus is the Lord, but by the Holy Ghost.

I believe the bible is secretly used as an outlet for satanism/Baal worship. I now understand all the genealogies and numerical values in the OT are used for pagan practices.

What's Pagan about the numerical values in the bible? Do you mean the significance of numbers like 7 in the bible? It just proves the bible is supernatural and how awesome God is.

The bible is the Word of God, it's not Pagan.


Another name for Baal (the phoenician deity) is the rider of the clouds. Psalm 68:4 and the symbolism used in the construction of the temple is evident paganism.
Sexual overtones that go right over the uninitiated persons head.

God ordered the temple to be built. Well, rider of the clouds is used for Baal too? Doesn't mean it's Pagan, but that Satan perverts things, just like Adonai etc are used in the Occult.

Close, Jesus is the Son of God in the flesh. If you think he is God and can be tempted, James 1:13 contradicts your theology.

1 Corinthians 15:50
Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God.

You misinterpret 1 Cor 15:50. The bible doesn't contradict itself, because look what John 1:1 and 14 says:

(John 1:1) In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

(John 1:14) And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.


What does this verse mean for the flesh that the Word became?

John 3:16?...
Why didn't Jesus say pray to the Son, Spirit and the Father?
Because a triadic god is Jewish and Egyptian paganism.

Why didn't Jesus say are Father in heaven and earth?
Because the father in the world is the devil himself.

Again, the The Word of God doesn't contradict itself. Trinity isn't Pagan. I told you, SAtan wants to pervert and mimic works of God.
 
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101c

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Greeting to all in the name of the Lord Jesus the Christ.
I'm not saying that anyone is right or wrong, but consider this.​


"The three dispensation, or administrations of God", instead of three in one​


Foundation Scripture: Deuteronomy 6:4 "Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God is one LORD"​

now this is my trinity killing scripture. 1 Corinthians 12:4 "Now there are diversities of gifts, but the same Spirit. 5 And there are differences of administrations, but the same Lord. 6 And there are diversities of operations, but it is the same God which worketh all in all". keep this foundation scripture in mind, as you read thanks. especially verse 5.
the "SAME" Spirit, the "SAME" Lord, the, "SAME" God. is not the Lord the same one God who is spirit. I posted this before, but it got yanked.​

I believe in only one Spirit/God/Lord, so lets start at the beginning. re-looking at Genesis 1:26 again. "And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth". From this verse, it seems like it is saying that there are two or more person of God, instead of one. Well lets look closer with the wisdom of God. But first I need you to go with me to Genesis the 5th chapter and verses 1 & 2. This is the book of the generations of Adam. In the day that God created man, in the likeness of God made he him. 2 Male and female created he them; and blessed them, and called their name Adam, in the day when they were created. Did you see it, listen again, In the day that God created man, in the likeness of God made he him, see it, if not, the net bible, 5:1 This is the record of the family line of Adam. When God created humankind, he made them in the likeness of God.: 2 He created them male and female; when they were created, he blessed them and named them humankind".
If you would notice, in verses 1 and 2 of chapter 5, it said he, (GOD), created man, and he, (GOD), created them male and female. He is singular, not plural. So seeing this lets go back to Genesis 1:26, and get the understanding. look at this verse real good, re-read it several times if need be. I did, and I saw something I never saw before. "And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth". See it, if not, here it is. Question, who is to have dominion over the earth, just ONLY the first man and first woman, NO. this was a generational thing until the end, not just for the first man and woman only, but for every generation of mankind to follow. We see that in 5:1 this is the generations, notice the, s, on generations at the end of the word. Meaning more that just the first two man and woman, but generations to follow. now how do that tie into the dispensation of God, a dispensation is a time period, or period of times, (Generations), that God deals with a group of peoples. This is called administrations of God. again, 1Cor 12:5 "And there are differences of administrations, but the same Lord". so in the first dispensation of time the Spirit, (without a natural body), as Creator and maker. made a man in his image that was to come, because his body, it was foreordained before the world was made. and in the second dispensation of time came the body/the flesh of God, John 1:1. and in the last dispensation of time, that natural body/flesh that the Spirit died from is now resurrect into the glorious body that he have now.​

so we can clearly see that there is no conflict, between Genesis 1:26 & 27, (the us, and we), and Genesis 5:1 & 2, (HE). in Genesis 1:26 & 27 God is reveling his first differences of administrations. The first administrations/or dispensation as Creator and maker, (Spirit). God is a Spirit, but man had a natural body. so the scripture is true, 1 Corinthians 15:46 "Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual". for the natural body was first, then the spiritual body. which the Lord's body as the man Jesus was first natural, and then quicken unto to spiritual. which is the second administrations, or dispensation as Saviour & Redeemer, Isa 9:6 "Flesh/Child is born, (spirit/Son) is GIVEN, Supporting Scripture John 17:21 "That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me". what was sent?, flesh, the natural body of God, in the person of the man Jesus the Christ. and the third administrations/or dispensation is comforter, (Holy Spirit)/sustainer. which is the resurrected, changed body of Jesus the Christ. There you have it, one God/Spirit, in three differences of administrations, who worketh all in all. A re-read of 1 Corinthians 12:4, 5, & 6. will open up the Godhead for us.
So as for as the trinity goes. Not three in one, but only one in three dispensation, or administrations, or period of time. He's Omniscient, he's planed this. Isaiah, said he's the Mighty, God, (Spirit, Creator, Maker), and the almighty, (Father, in the Spiritual realm, Son, in the Earthly, or created realm). yes in the earthly realm because the first Adam lost all rights and power of this created world. now Jesus/Spirit/God in Glorified flesh, is still Omnipotent, in that dispensational body), there is only ONE Spirit. he's the Father, and the Son when he was in the fleshly body. Title Son of God, (in Flesh, unglorified). title Father, (the same Spirit, without body/flesh). as in when Jesus was baptized. most say here is the trinity. voice from heaven, as a dove coming down, and the body of Jesus standing in the Jordan. is he not Omnipresent?. supportive scripture, Jer. 23:23 & 24 "Am I a God at hand, saith the LORD, and not a God afar off? 24 Can any hide himself in secret places that I shall not see him? saith the LORD. Do not I fill heaven and earth? saith the LORD. is not God/Spirit is in you, and at the same time in me, and in someone else in Dallas, New York, Atlanta?. how can one limited an all mighty God, to just one point in time, and space. was not Jesus the eternal Spirit in the old testament without body, (flesh, bone, and blood)?. lets see this, supported by the Scripture, 1Pet 1:19 "But with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot: Who verily was foreordained before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you". Now, if Christ was manifested, at this time, then he was before his fleshly body. without blood, without bone, and without flesh. supporting scripture, 1Pet 1:11 "Searching what, or what manner of time the Spirit of Christ which was in them did signify, when it testified beforehand the sufferings of Christ, and the glory that should follow". there he is, the Spirit, that's right the Spirit of Christ that was in them. them who?, the old testament prophets. and that same Spirit in the natural man Jesus. see verse 10 of 1 Peter chapter 1. before he took on the flesh, the Blood, and the Bone, he is Spirit. now we can see it perfectly.
Heb 1:1 "God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets, 2 Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, (the word), whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds. This time/dispensation when He spoke to the fathers is distinguished from the time/dispensation in which He has spoken to us, by his son/the word, that manifested him, (the eternal Spirit). The time/dispensation in which He spake by the prophets, stands in contrast with the time in which He spake by His Son. And the time past is a dispensation, that is obviously distinguished from these last days, which we're in now.​

In the dispensations of God, by the office of the Holy Spirit, we are in the Last dispensation of the Gospel to preach it by the Holy Spirit. Listen, Col 1:25 "Whereof I am made a minister, according to the dispensation of God which is given to me for you, to fulfil the word of God; (to what, fulfil, or to complete what?. The age, wow). 26 Even the mystery which hath been hid from ages and from generations, but now is made manifest to his saints: 27 To whom God would make known what is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles; which is Christ in you, the hope of glory: 28 Whom we preach, warning every man, and teaching every man in all wisdom; that we may present every man perfect in Christ Jesus: 29 Whereunto I also labour, striving according to his working, which worketh in me mightily".​

here plainly the apostle Paul tell us of the third differences of administrations, or the third dispensation, or to God's third/last Work to finish. Which is the Gospel to the world. and we're his helpers. how is this done?, through the office of the Holy Ghost, or his third dispensation. that is, he, (God/Holy Spirit), who John saw on the island on Patmos, not in heaven but on earth, Rev 1:12-16. it it he, who is creator and maker in Genesis 1:26 &27, have reveled his name, "Jesus", he is in that office today. He who came to his own, and his own knew him not. But who we know now, Jesus, his work, to administer/dispense, is through his body the church. his word in these last days was a mystery, but is now reveled by his apostles, whom he empower with his Spirit.​

the three offices of God is at hand. Creator/Maker, of everything, Saviour/redeemer, of all mankind, now, King/High Priest, who is also mediator, (God in glorified flesh, yes King, to return), Psalms 132:11 "The LORD hath sworn in truth unto David; he will not turn from it; Of the fruit of thy body will I set upon thy throne". this scripture clearly states the God as a man will sit on the throne of David. as he was prince on earth, prince of peace, by his blood), and, now Returning King to all who believe, this is the same Spirit/God, identified as, "us", and the, "we", in Genesis 1:26 & 27. the same God/Spirit who created us, is the same God/Spirit who redeemed us, and it's the same God/Spirit who saves us. and now we're in the last dispensation of his Grace. this have been a mystery from the beginning of time. supported scripture, 1Tim 3:16 "And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory". but is displayed by his Holy Apostles. Here is that mystery explained. When God/Jesus/Spirit sent that flesh, (son of God), into the world, that's what saved us, to be the sacrifice/ransom to redeem us. this man/flesh, bones, and blood, is better known as God right hand. The manifestation of his power. supportive scripture, Isaiah 63:5 "And I looked, and there was none to help; and I wondered that there was none to uphold: therefore mine own arm brought salvation unto me; and my fury, it upheld me". that's why Jesus the flesh and blood/Man is called the Arm of God. and by his Arm, his arm of flesh came salvation. Eph 3:1 "For this cause I Paul, the prisoner of Jesus Christ for you Gentiles, 2 If ye have heard of the dispensation of the grace of God which is given me to you-ward: 3 How that by revelation he made known unto me the mystery; (as I wrote afore in few words, 4 Whereby, when ye read, ye may understand my knowledge in the mystery of Christ) 5 Which in other ages was not made known unto the sons of men, as it is now revealed unto his holy apostles and prophets by the Spirit; 6 That the Gentiles should be fellowheirs, and of the same body, and partakers of his promise in Christ by the gospel: 7 Whereof I was made a minister, according to the gift of the grace of God given unto me by the effectual working of his power". Amen.​

JESUS is GOD, All by Himself.​



now to tie up some loose ends,
1John 5:6 "This is he that came by water and blood, even Jesus Christ; not by water only, but by water and blood. And it is the Spirit that beareth witness, because the Spirit is truth. 7 For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one. 8 And there are three that bear witness in earth, the spirit, and the water, and the blood: and these three agree in one".
here in these verses most Christians think that this verse support the trinity. I don't believe so. the scriptures states, "these three", not "they three", but these. "these" are titles, #1 in heaven, Father is a title, not a person, word is a title, not a person, Holy Spirit is a title, Listen, Holy describe what kind of Spirit. Holy describe the Spirit characteristics or character. "these", are not personalities, but, "these", are one witness. note humans are made up of water, blood, and spirit. "these" are one, a spirit in flesh, with blood, meaning A MAN, the image of God. for we are made in his image. and two, that image is manifested clearly in heaven, as the Father, (Spirit), the Word, (flesh), and no Blood, for it was the ransom. meaning a GLORIFIED MAN IN HEAVEN. the same, (Spirit in Genesis without glorified flesh). is the same Spirit in John 1:1 in unglorified flesh. and now that same Spirit as we have said, now Glorified.​

101c​
 
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toLiJC

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Rom 10:9 > "the Lord" > Kyrios (definition ....c) this title is given to: God, the Messiah)

In the Greek translation of the Bible that was used in the time of Jesus, the personal name of God, YAHWEH, was translated into Greek as (kyrios), usually translated into English as Lord or Master.

Jesus also stated "I AM" which means he's God, unless he was blaspheming and didn't die for our Sins, which HE DID (he died for our sins, so he was God and didn't blaspheme) :)

"...for the Lord searcheth all hearts, and understandeth all the imaginations of the thoughts: if thou seek him, he will be found of thee; but if thou forsake him, he will cast thee off for ever." -(1 Chronicles 28:9)

Jesus constantly knew what people were thinking in their hearts etc.


whatever to say, there is one main God - the Father, and one Lord - Jesus Christ, according to as it is written:

1 Corinthians 8:6 "to us(ie to all humans) there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him."

Blessings
 
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Tyler4Truth

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The trinity makes no sense whatsoever. Jesus was tempted (Matt.4:1-11) God cannot be tempted (James 1:13). The Old Testament says that God would raise up a prophet like unto Moses (Deuteronomy 18:18-19) This is later confirmed to be talking about Jesus in Acts 3:22-26, 7:37.

Not only that, but the bible says on many occasions that Jesus HAS A GOD. Micah 5:4, John 20:17, Revelation 3:11-12, Romans 15:6, 2Corinthians 1:3,11:31, Ephesians 1:3,17, 2Peter 1:3.

Jesus has a God, and if you say that he is God then your making Jesus, the prophets, and the apostles liars. Jesus is the prophesied Jewish Messiah, He is NOT a "godman".
 
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Senecharnix

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The trinity makes no sense whatsoever. Jesus was tempted (Matt.4:1-11) God cannot be tempted (James 1:13). The Old Testament says that God would raise up a prophet like unto Moses (Deuteronomy 18:18-19) This is later confirmed to be talking about Jesus in Acts 3:22-26, 7:37.

Not only that, but the bible says on many occasions that Jesus HAS A GOD. Micah 5:4, John 20:17, Revelation 3:11-12, Romans 15:6, 2Corinthians 1:3,11:31, Ephesians 1:3,17, 2Peter 1:3.

Jesus has a God, and if you say that he is God then your making Jesus, the prophets, and the apostles liars. Jesus is the prophesied Jewish Messiah, He is NOT a "godman".

Of course, so-called Trinitarianism is nonsense. Paganism inspired that convoluted notion. Only God is God. Yeshua is His Son. Otherwise, Yeshua's life and ministry amounted to little more than an elaborate charade and we have a God who likes to play games....
 
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Senecharnix

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Moved here from "How Do the Mainstreams of Christianity Look MJ As?"; thread

Originally Posted by zara
..... hello, cath:

Originally Posted by Catherineanne
Given that your definition of 'Christian' leaves a little to be desired, I do hope you will forgive me if I reach for a pinch of salt before being at all convinced by your definition of messianic.
Thanks muchly.
You are forgiven. I look forward to your comments on my views. A pinch of salt enhances the flavor.

Originally Posted by Catherineanne
For the record, a Christian is someone who, inter alia, believes in God; Father, Son and Holy Spirit. One God. See the Nicene creed for further details.
Yes we agree here .. One God... . The father, son, holy spirit is not God at all !!! This false if not blasphemic dogma seeks to divide God into three. Jesus/Christ is not God, He is the Son of God. The holy spirit is not God, it is a spirit or angelic.

The Nicene Creed was finally decided for the Arian view by Constantine the Great and discarded the "Trinity" falsehoods.

Per " Arianism " wiki
" Under Arianism, Christ was instead not consubstantial with God the Father since both the Father and the Son under Arius were made of "like" essence or being (see homoiousia) but not of the same essence or being (see homoousia). "

"At the First Synod of Tyre in AD 335, they brought accusations against Athanasius, bishop of Alexandria, the primary opponent of Arius; after this, Constantine had Athanasius banished, since he considered him an impediment to reconciliation. In the same year, the Synod of Jerusalem under Constantine's direction readmitted Arius to communion in AD 336. Arius, however, died on the way to this event in Constantinople."

Originally Posted by Catherineanne
Someone who rejects the Trinitarian God may be many wonderful things, but mainstream Christian he certainly ain't, not in this Forum anyway.

Good luck with that one.

Just as Constantine the Great, most Christians worship "One God" (Homoiousia) and view that the Bishop of Rome and Alexandria were dead wrong in inventing the blasphemous "trinity" definition of God.


did it, back to you !! ...... zara ........ :idea:


The Holy Spirit is not an it. He is a he--an independent entity who serves God's purposes directly....
 
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JoJo50

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Jehovah God, (the God of Israel is the ONLY Father, and Jesus is lord and son as Jesus has shown. Jesus is the one who our prayers MUST go through in order for Jehovah God to received them, (tim. 2:5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus). Because we’re imperfect God IS perfect and he doesn’t touch imperfections. Yet many don’t seem to understand , this is why we say…”in Jesus name” many say Jesus has a Father, yet they pray to Jesus in this manner….” Lord Jesus, Jesus our father, lord god” , then finish with…”in your name” sadly Jesus doesn’t hear ANYONE, who prays that way. Because he GAVE us an example in which to pray.

So I totally agree with you concerning what roll Jesus and “God the Father” plays. Also food for thought, God and Father are titles not names. The God of Israel gave us many scriptures concerning his name. even though at one time, and still today it’s said a certain group made that name up. (Exo.6:3 and Psa.83:18 That men may know that thou, whose name alone is JEHOVAH, art the most high over all the earth). Jesus even said he gave to the men who already worshipped his Father, his, (God), name. John 17:6-8. as for the HS, it’s sad many believe the God who created ALL THINGS, need to create a being who can make his will an action. It’s like saying God has limited powers. As I showed many times, the HS isn’t a being, it’s Jehovah’s POWER, or active force.

It’s not hard to understand, God can cause things to happen ON HIS OWN, just by his WILL. Whatever he wants to happen, it does, it’s just that simple with him. Exam., When he wanted the flood to happen, or the destruction of Sodom and Gomorrah. Do people believe he sent a HS to do these things? No! he wanted it to happen, and with his OWN will, he made it happen. Again scriptures PROVES, the HS ISN’T a being, part of a “trinity” or “the joint spirit of God and Jesus." Many need to understand, this is why Jesus stated we can speak ill against him, but NOT the Holy Spirit. He wasn’t referring to some being who’s “a part of him and his Father” because Jesus NEVER taught that there was another being who was so, again…MAN DID!
also!...did ANYONE NOT notice he didn’t mention speaking against God?, he IS the one above ALL! Jesus was TOTALLY speaking about his Father’s POWER. Doing so would mean total destruction for those who do, without a chance of resurrection. Because!...NO imperfect human has the right, OR power to match Jehovah’s power. Jesus doesn’t even have that kind of power on his own, his Father gave him a certain amount. Even SATAN ,has powers which we can’t touch,…..on our own, meaning without God’s help ,(Isa. 41:13 For I the LORD thy God will hold thy right hand, saying unto thee, Fear not; I will help thee). If one’s really seeking the truth, there much on the internet concerning “origins of the trinity.” peace :)
 
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Albion

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Jesus never said to love him as much as God. Making Jesus God breaks the first commandment, something Satan probably loves.
You mean to say that Jesus never said to love him as much as THE FATHER.

No problemo.
 
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Albion

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hello sene:

As long as the holy ghost isn't considered God or a third of God, I don't have much of a quarrel with you. IMHO, it is not human nor a deity in it's essence and has no gender. It is likened to an angelicoid, as is Gabriel.

zara ......... :amen:

Scripture uses PERSONAL PRONOUNS when speaking of the Holy Ghost. That rules out considering him to be an impersonal force, etc.
 
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LittleLambofJesus

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The trinity makes no sense whatsoever. Jesus was tempted (Matt.4:1-11) God cannot be tempted (James 1:13). The Old Testament says that God would raise up a prophet like unto Moses (Deuteronomy 18:18-19) This is later confirmed to be talking about Jesus in Acts 3:22-26, 7:37.

Not only that, but the bible says on many occasions that Jesus HAS A GOD. Micah 5:4, John 20:17, Revelation 3:11-12, Romans 15:6, 2Corinthians 1:3,11:31, Ephesians 1:3,17, 2Peter 1:3.

Jesus has a God, and if you say that he is God then your making Jesus, the prophets, and the apostles liars. Jesus is the prophesied Jewish Messiah, He is NOT a "godman".
Good post and welcome to CF.

Actually there is both YAHWEH and 'ELOHIYM in the OT.
So Jesus could be an ELOHIYM w/o actually being YAHWEH, tho Jesus is one with YAHWEH, I would think.

http://www.christianforums.com/t7694041-2/#post61548876

Sometimes men can have a lot of feminine qualities and women can display a lot of masculine.
But as Paul said, "there is neither male nor female...", so perhaps we can say Yahweh/God is "neuter"?

Deuteronomy 6:4 Hear O Israel! Yahweh our Elohiym, Yahweh one.

Mark 12:29 and Jesus answered him "The first of all the commands 'Hear O Israel! LORD our God, LORD one is';

Textus Rec.) Mark 12:29 o de ihsouV apekriqh autw oti prwth paswn twn entolwn 'akoue israhl kurioV o qeoV hmwn kurioV eiV estin'
 
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Phantasman

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You mean to say that Jesus never said to love him as much as THE FATHER.

No problemo.

If he did, show me.

He said that the Father loved him, and he said that IF we loved him, we would keep his commandments and God would love us.
 
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Albion

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hello again, albion:

{Originally Posted by zara
hello sene:

As long as the holy ghost isn't considered God or a third of God, I don't have much of a quarrel with you. IMHO, it is not human nor a deity in it's essence and has no gender. It is likened to an angelicoid, as is Gabriel.}

Adjectives and personal pronouns are not used for the Holy Ghost

Well, yes., In the KJV they are. You will probably dispute that translation, so therein hangs the decision. But I would also suggest that the described actions of the Holy Ghost do not read like something done by an impersonal force.

There is no gender designation for the HG, if there were, I expect that it would be a She to stay inline with a deity family.
In Christianity there's no God family in the sense that suggests. No Mother figure for sure. So let's leave that out.
 
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Albion

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thanx, albino.

Hi Zara. :)


Wellllllll. Kinda do. We have a Jesus family don't we. God the father, Mary the mother, Jesus the Son.
That only refers to the man Jesus. You were talking about the nature of the deity, I believe.
 
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