Trinity

[Der Alte]

Der Alter,

In Strongs Hebrew Concordance, look at the "Bible" verses using 'Horse', you will see
#5489 cuc soos; from an unused root mean. to skip, a horse...

Its not the english letters that make any difference, it is the sound coming from your lips.

Irrelevant about the Hebrew word for horse. I already said that. The Hebrew word for horse has nothing whatsoever to do with the name IesouV.

"Its not the english letters that make any difference, it is the sound coming from your lips." Nonsense! How about the Ephraimites? They could not pronounce the name ישוע! I remember reading in the T'nakh that before we speak יהוה knows what we need, and He answers while we are yet speaking. And you are going to try to tell me that it depends on part of a name sounding like a completely unrelated word in another language?

My wife was born outside the U.S., in her native language the word for "outside" sounds exactly like "Yahweh." Are you going to try to say that יהוה will deal with her, and others from her country, whenever they say "outside," because the sound their lips make, sounds like "Yahweh," and not with the intent of their heart when they spoke, as the T'nakh clearly states? Maybe the god you serve is that petty, the Creator I serve is not!

How about responding to the rest of my post and the one before that?

 

[Eliot]

Greetings Der Alter,
I already know what YOU have said, but thats not history.

Did the vocalizing of the name matter? How many times did the mighty one of the Hebrews forwarn His people about the misuse/ruining of His name and told them do not call or even mention the names of the deities that people are worshiping around them?

What do you think the many passages are refering to when in scripture it says "Their" mighty one..."Your" mighty one, As he says, I am YHWH , YOUR mighty one, do you think He was refering to everyone that go a hold of a "Bible" and read that passage? OR do you think He was seperating the Sheep from the wolves?

I will post more when I have more time,
until next time...

 

[Der Alte]

Greetings Der Alter,
I already know what YOU have said, but thats not history.

Did the vocalizing of the name matter? How many times did the mighty one of the Hebrews forwarn His people about the misuse/ruining of His name and told them do not call or even mention the names of the deities that people are worshiping around them?

The difference is I can back up what I say, you can't!. All you can do is post a bunch of assumptions, and assertions without any support whatsoever.

What do you think the many passages are refering to when in scripture it says "Their" mighty one..."Your" mighty one, As he says, I am YHWH , YOUR mighty one, do you think He was refering to everyone that go a hold of a "Bible" and read that passage? OR do you think He was seperating the Sheep from the wolves?

If you have some specific verses in mind post them and I will discuss them. I don't know any verse which mentions "Mighty One." I know verses which mention "YHWH, Elohim, and Adonai." Since you are so concerned about the sound of O.T. names why don't you use the actual names that appear in the O.T. instead of incorrect English translations? The Creator referred to Himself as "Elohim" and "Adonai." So if those words are good enough for Him, they are good enough for me. I certainly won't won't use the incorrect translation, "Mighty One."

"not call or even mention the names of the deities that people are worshiping around them" And what is the relevance of this? You are misinterpreting this verse exactly as all other false doctrines. There are verses in the O.T. where the Creator refers to Himself as "Baal." And, it is impossible to read the entire O.T. without pronouncing the names of pagan deities which are written there, e.g. Dag, Chemosh, Ashtoreth, Baal, etc.

All this is, is you pointing fingers at believers, and accusing them when you don't even understand what it is you are talking about. All you have done is make a lot of noise but have not posted one sentence as proof of anything.

 

[Key Of David]

Jesus said, "Before you were, I AM."

If that doesn't sum it up for ya...nothing is going to.

 

[D. Paul]

"God is no mystery. He reveals himself very clearly in the Bible." says Peterson, who makes assertions with no scriptural backing. He is very correct, however. God does indeed reveal Himself very clearly in the Bible...as the Triune God. Rom 8, Eph. 1:3-14, 2Thess 2:13-14

Is Jesus God? Yes. Is the Holy Spirit God? Yes. Jesus commanded worship knowing full well that only God deserved to be worshipped. Acts 5:3,4 is a person lying to God the Holy Spirit.

Just because our minds cannot fathom the mystery should not preclude us from acknowledging the boundaries set for us to take it in.

 

[Theway]

Question... if God is a mystery and his nature can not be fully understood then how do you know your interpretation of the Trinity is correct or ever will be?

 

[D. Paul]

Question... if God is a mystery and his nature can not be fully understood then how do you know your interpretation of the Trinity is correct or ever will be?

Are you telling me that you fully understand God? Or are you asking a question admitting the fact that we cannot?

God has given the necessary revelation of Himself in scripture in order that man may know Him. He does not leave us guessing. There is a proper knowledge of His nature and character to be known. God is not a ball of mush who allows for any and all musings about him just as long as we say we "believe" in Him. There is a right and proper understanding and anything else is idolotry.

I trust the Triune nature of God because scripture makes it obvious that Jesus and the Holy Spirit possess the same qualities of Deity that the Father posesses by the WORSHIP accorded them: John 20:28-31, Acts 7:59, Rom 9:5; 10:9-13,
2Cor 12:7-9, Phil 2:5-6, Col 1:15-17; 2:9, Heb 1:1-12

It is truly amazing that someone can say of the Holy Spirit that it (HE, rather) is merely the "power" of God. Always ask how this power can hear, speak and tell John 16:13. Can a power speak, teach, witness, wearch, will and intercede? These are all acts of an individual person.

 

[Peterson]

D. Paul,
"Peterson makes assertions with no scriptural backing."

I'll give you a few scriptures that clearly define the Godhead in many places: Deut. 6:4; Mark 12:29; 1 Cor.8:6; Eph. 4:6; John 4:24; 1 Tim. 2:4-5 and John 20:17, to name a few. Nowhere is a Trinity of three coequal persons defined or implied.

Paul and the other apostles plainly state from whom their authority came in the opening salutations of all their epistles - usually in the first few verses. Two examples: Romans 1:7; "Grace to you, and peace from God our Father, and the Lord Jesus Christ."
1 Corinthians 1:3; Grace be unto you and peace, from God our Father, and from the Lord Jesus Christ." Check all the epistles and you'll notice that Paul and the others acknowledge the Father and Son and no one else as part of the Godhead, and by whom they receive their authority. They never acknowledged a Trinity, or a third person called the Holy Ghost. If the apostles believed in a coequal triune God, why did they completely ignore the third person?

Romans 8 does not identify a third person Holy Ghost in this chapter. The "Spirit of God" mentioned here, is just that, the Spirit (mind, attributes and power) of the Father, and not a third person. Verses 10 and 11 make that clear (Gal. 1:1). Verses 14 through 17 conclusively show that the Spirit is that of the Father. The other scriptures you cite, all certify that the Godhead is made up of the Father and Son only, and cannot in any way be used as evidence of a triune godhead.

The argument that the Holy Spirit is not an unfeeling force, but acts like a person with feelings and emotions, is a "straw man" that is used to "prove " that the Holy Spirit is a person. Of course, the Holy Spirit is a person, but not a third person. The holy Spirit is the mind of the Father given us through his Like-minded Son, Jesus Christ (1 Tim. 2:5; Romans 8:11; 1 Cor. 1:9; 1 Cor. 3:23; 1 Peter 1:11).

Are they coequal? John 14:28; 1 Cor. 15:28. Triune advocates recognize the problem of one God taught in Scripture, so they manufactered the "Three in one, one in three coequal concept, in an attempt to justify the doctrine with Scripture, using vague bits and pieces here and there. Finally, they say God cannot be understood, but we must accept their version as a condition of salvation, and if we want to avoid roasting in hell for all eternity.

 

[Theway]

Are you telling me that you fully understand God? Or are you asking a question admitting the fact that we cannot?

God has given the necessary revelation of Himself in scripture in order that man may know Him. He does not leave us guessing. There is a proper knowledge of His nature and character to be known. God is not a ball of mush who allows for any and all musings about him just as long as we say we "believe" in Him. There is a right and proper understanding and anything else is idolotry.

I trust the Triune nature of God because scripture makes it obvious that Jesus and the Holy Spirit possess the same qualities of Deity that the Father posesses by the WORSHIP accorded them: John 20:28-31, Acts 7:59, Rom 9:5; 10:9-13,
2Cor 12:7-9, Phil 2:5-6, Col 1:15-17; 2:9, Heb 1:1-12

It is truly amazing that someone can say of the Holy Spirit that it (HE, rather) is merely the "power" of God. Always ask how this power can hear, speak and tell John 16:13. Can a power speak, teach, witness, wearch, will and intercede? These are all acts of an individual person.

Im sorry I realized I completely misread your post before this one.
I believe I am in agreement with you.

 

[Nijii Iro]

[Edited by a moderator. Unauthorized link.]

An explination of the falsehood of the trinity doctrine.

 

[jessedance]

A. God is one and the Father (easily verifiable in scripture)
B. Jesus is God (easily verifiable in scripture)
C. Holy Spirit is God (easily verifiable in scripture)
D. Commandment #1, "I am God, you shall have NO OTHER Gods before me" (easily verifiable in scripture).
E. Plurality of God at creation (Let US make man in OUR OWN image).

.

A. 1 cor 8:6 i agree
B. well then if jesus is god you got 2 gods so far. so that cant be unless Jesus is the father. unless we want to get illogical .
c. God is holy Ps. 99:9, god is spiritJohn 4:24, ergo, God is The Holy Spirit. ergo God the father is the holy spirit. only thing that makes logical sense if you have but one god. otherwise to say the holy spirit is god and god the father is god and they arent each other, you have 2 gods which contradicts scripture that says god is one. Unless you want to get illogical with your explanations.
D. Im in agreement with that see no problem here.
E. Gen 1:26 , if you interpt our to mean god the father , god the son , and god the holy spirit being our, then your interpretation contadicts scripture that says God is one so that can't be unless, again, you want to have illogical explanations.

 

[True Believer]

If I tell my son "let us build a house" does that make he and I one person?

 

[True Believer]

[Edited by a moderator. Unauthorized link.]

An explination of the falsehood of the trinity doctrine.

Just a suggestion but try posting the information and remember to give the site you got it from credit then we can read it and see what it says.
Thanks for trying, TB

 

[michael servetus]

This is the definition of the Trinity I believe is accurate:

http://www.carm.org/doctrine/whatisthetrinity.htm

PEACE IN CHRIST!!

Calvin was right you know....