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Trinity discussion with St Worm2

Discussion in 'Christianity and World Religion' started by Dartman, Jul 30, 2017.

  1. Dartman

    Dartman Well-Known Member

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    Lily of the Valley isn't producing ANY verses that state "the deity of Jesus". Do you understand that? Do you admit that?
    Remember, Paul tells us CLEARLY, we need to cling to the "Jesus we (the apostles) have PREACHED"!
    If you CANNOT find a trinitarian "Jesus" actually PREACHED to an AUDIENCE in the Scriptures, you are ignoring Paul's teaching!
    Do you understand that?
     
  2. Dartman

    Dartman Well-Known Member

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    In other words, you've got no verses, and, in order to cover up for the FACT that you have NO Scripture that PREACHES your "Jesus", you are going to hide behind this ludicrous "mystery" theory.
     
  3. miknik5

    miknik5 "Let not your heart be troubled"

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    She or he produced the most important one

    Whoever denies JESUS CHRIST as come in the flesh is antichrist


    If CHRIST JESUS were but a mere man what other way could HE come into the world but in the flesh
     
  4. Lily of Valleys

    Lily of Valleys Well-Known Member

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    You agreed that Revelation 1:8 is what God said, right?

    “I am the Alpha and the Omega,” says the Lord God, “the one who is and who was and who is to come, the almighty.”

    Then who do you think was speaking in Revelation 22:12-13?

    “Behold, I am coming soon. I bring with me the recompense I will give to each according to his deeds. I am the Alpha and the Omega, the first and the last, the beginning and the end.”
     
  5. Dartman

    Dartman Well-Known Member

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    You are missing the point.
    There is only one Christ promised in the Scriptures, and many people deny that he has already come in the flesh.
    I do not deny that the Christ, is Jesus of Nazareth, a descendant of Abraham, Judah and David, and that he has literally come in the flesh.

    You are also avoiding the point. This Scripture doesn't offer ANY proof of ANY tenet unique to the trinity.
     
    Last edited: Jul 31, 2017
  6. Dartman

    Dartman Well-Known Member

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    Why don't you just admit that I am right, there isn't a SINGLE TEXT that states, explains, teaches or preaches "Jesus is God", or mentions "the deity of Jesus"?
    You keep trying to dredge up the tiny handful of passages, that are worded in such a way that in the last 1,700 years of brainwashing, people have come to THINK the trinity is supported.
    I am not going to continue playing your "smoke screen" game.
    You either HAVE a text that states, explains, teaches or preaches "Jesus is God", or mentions "the deity of Jesus" ..... (and we both know you don't) ... or you are honest, and admit that you simply don't have any such text.
     
  7. Lily of Valleys

    Lily of Valleys Well-Known Member

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    You have not answered my question. Who do you think was speaking in Revelation 22:12-13?

    “Behold, I am coming soon. I bring with me the recompense I will give to each according to his deeds. I am the Alpha and the Omega, the first and the last, the beginning and the end.”
     
  8. Dartman

    Dartman Well-Known Member

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    You didn't pay attention.
    I am not going to continue playing your "smoke screen" game.
    You either HAVE a text that states, explains, teaches or preaches "Jesus is God", or mentions "the deity of Jesus" ..... (and we both know you don't) ... or you are honest, and admit that you simply don't have any such text.
    Once we get THAT honesty, THEN I promise, I will be happy to answer your question. (You won't like it, but I promise an answer, and here is a hint, this little "trap" you think you have set, isn't a trap at all).
     
  9. Lily of Valleys

    Lily of Valleys Well-Known Member

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    There was no game or trap. I just let the scripture speak for itself. I have already given you the Bible verses that tell you Jesus is God (#165 #166), but since you didn't see it so I was just trying to explain to you. Here they are again:

    Behold, he is coming amid the clouds,
    and every eye will see him,
    even those who pierced him.
    All the peoples of the earth will lament him.
    Yes. Amen.

    “I am the Alpha and the Omega,” says the Lord God, “the one who is and who was and who is to come, the almighty.
    (Revelation 1:7-8)


    “Behold, I am coming soon. I bring with me the recompense I will give to each according to his deeds. I am the Alpha and the Omega, the first and the last, the beginning and the end.

    Blessed are they who wash their robes so as to have the right to the tree of life and enter the city through its gates. Outside are the dogs, the sorcerers, the unchaste, the murderers, the idol-worshipers, and all who love and practice deceit.

    “I, Jesus, sent my angel to give you this testimony for the churches. I am the root and offspring of David, the bright morning star.”
    (Revelation 22:12-16)
     
    Last edited: Jul 31, 2017
  10. Dartman

    Dartman Well-Known Member

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    I see the verses you have posted, and not one of them meets the criteria;
    ... a text that states, explains, teaches or preaches "Jesus is God", or mentions "the deity of Jesus".
    Once you admit this fact, we can move on to the texts you provided, which merely MIGHT ... INFER .. a situation which COULD be interpreted in support of the trinity.
     
  11. Lily of Valleys

    Lily of Valleys Well-Known Member

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    I, John, your brother, who share with you the distress, the kingdom, and the endurance we have in Jesus, found myself on the island called Patmos because I proclaimed God’s word and gave testimony to Jesus.

    I was caught up in spirit on the Lord’s day and heard behind me a voice as loud as a trumpet, which said, “Write on a scroll what you see and send it to the seven churches: to Ephesus, Smyrna, Pergamum, Thyatira, Sardis, Philadelphia, and Laodicea.” Then I turned to see whose voice it was that spoke to me, and when I turned, I saw seven gold lampstands and in the midst of the lampstands one like a son of man, wearing an ankle-length robe, with a gold sash around his chest. The hair of his head was as white as white wool or as snow, and his eyes were like a fiery flame. His feet were like polished brass refined in a furnace, and his voice was like the sound of rushing water. In his right hand he held seven stars. A sharp two-edged sword came out of his mouth, and his face shone like the sun at its brightest.

    When I caught sight of him, I fell down at his feet as though dead. He touched me with his right hand and said, “Do not be afraid. I am the first and the last, the one who lives. Once I was dead, but now I am alive forever and ever. I hold the keys to death and the netherworld. Write down, therefore, what you have seen, and what is happening, and what will happen afterwards.


    (Revelation 1:9-19)
     
  12. Dartman

    Dartman Well-Known Member

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    I see the verses you have posted, and not one of them meets the criteria;
    ... a text that states, explains, teaches or preaches "Jesus is God", or mentions "the deity of Jesus".
    Once you admit this fact, we can move on to the texts you provided, which merely MIGHT ... INFER .. a situation which COULD be interpreted in support of the trinity.
     
  13. Lily of Valleys

    Lily of Valleys Well-Known Member

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    What man on earth could have been the first and the last?
     
    Last edited: Aug 1, 2017
  14. Lily of Valleys

    Lily of Valleys Well-Known Member

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    What man on earth could have equality with God?
    What does it mean by Jesus coming in human likeness?

    Have among yourselves the same attitude that is also yours in Christ Jesus,
    Who, though he was in the form of God,
    did not regard equality with God something to be grasped.


    Rather, he emptied himself,
    taking the form of a slave,
    coming in human likeness;

    and found human in appearance,
    he humbled himself,
    becoming obedient to death,
    even death on a cross.


    (Philippians 2:5-8)
     
  15. Dartman

    Dartman Well-Known Member

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    I see the verses you have posted, and not one of them meets the criteria;
    ... a text that states, explains, teaches or preaches "Jesus is God", or mentions "the deity of Jesus".
    Once you admit this fact, we can move on to the texts you provided, which merely MIGHT ... INFER .. a situation which COULD be interpreted in support of the trinity.
     
  16. miknik5

    miknik5 "Let not your heart be troubled"

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    Mm..,I'm not sure that I am missing the point since "this is HE who came not by water only"
    (1 John 5)


    A descendant of DAVID according to the flesh (romans 1)
     
    Last edited: Aug 1, 2017
  17. Dartman

    Dartman Well-Known Member

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    Yes, you are missing the point. And, neither of these texts offer ANY evidence in support of the trinity, over the Scriptural truth of Jesus of Nazareth.
    In the process of gestation (according to the flesh), Jesus IS a descendant of David!! That fact is PART OF THE GOSPEL (2 Tim 2:8) That fact is IMPOSSIBLE if Jesus is "God".
    The claims of the trinity are insane/impossible, and are NEVER .... EVER ... explained, preached, defined or stated in Scripture.
    In stead, weak, inferred, out of context, unnatural interpretations are being repeated by you and others, since these truly are the BEST you've got.
     
  18. miknik5

    miknik5 "Let not your heart be troubled"

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    Gestation of the flesh?



    Who's his father?
     
  19. miknik5

    miknik5 "Let not your heart be troubled"

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    Gestation of the flesh?

    Can a woman grow a child on her own?
     
  20. miknik5

    miknik5 "Let not your heart be troubled"

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    So now we have the Gabriel an angel who stands in the presence of GOD declaring this baby as a "holy thing" because the power of the HOLY SPIRIT will overshadow Mary. This is why HE will be called THE SON of GOD

    We have anyone who denies JESUS CHRIST as cone in the flesh is antichrist

    We have this is HE who came not by water only. But by water and blood

    And now we have according to the flesh, Jesus is a do. If David but according to holiness THE SON of GOD

    And you now telling us of course HE is the son of David according to the gestation of flesh

    Yet HE said whose son is the CHRIST

    And Mary, a young maiden girl asking how can it (the gestation of the flesh of a baby) be since I have never been with a man
     
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