TRINITARIANS: A Question about the Holy Spirit?

[2ducklow]

A BACK TRAIL VIEW:


Question to DA or anyone else who might have an answer:


Der, this thought just occurred to me while I was cleaning, had to stop and post. I think it is relevant in all of our genuine pursuit of the knowledge of God, thus it is not for debate but rather one for collaborative response, I hope, although I will not restrict you:


Do you know of any instance when the Holy Spirit was thanked, praised, worshipped or addressed directly in speech by anyone?*


I did a search on "THANKS" and "THANK" and with the exception of Luke 17:15 and 1 Tim 1:12 which is sufficient for me... all the thanks were addressed to "GOD/Father" **Now I say that the Father is the God intended by the simple fact that in those "GOD" verses it is quite obvious that the Father is the intended God in God. Jesus thanked him often himself. But that is not why I am posting. I simply want to know if you have any answer or contribution to the above question. A couple of verses would be sufficient to help.


What I see is that, although there is clearly a Holy Spirit, he comes from the Father as his provision to us, thus overall thanks is directed always to the Father through our Lord Jesus. Which would not be the case if the Holy Spirit is a person. It makes sense only if the Holy Spirit is the Father's spirit, thus by thanking the Father, we have thanked the right person for the ministry of His Spirit. That again, does not mean that the Holy Spirit has not the abilities that the verses you posted show.


We thank persons who show us favor, etc. Notice Luke 6:32 below. And from what I can see in the scriptures, GOD is the one who is primarily thanked... that by GOD, the Father IS intended. He is thanked for the provision of all his goodness, including for giving us his Son and Spirit.




Quite possibly, I may be overlooking other things to search for so I welcome your input.

And THANK YOU!

To put it more bluntly. Does God the father have a spirit? If so, what is the spirit of God the Father called? Unholy spirit?, holy spirit? If I were to say that my spirit (my human spirit) does magnify the Lord, would it mean that i am two persons that are one person? If I say 'My strong arm holds the rope tightly" would it mean I am two persons me and my arm? Or" My eyes have seen the glory of the lord". Does that mean my eyes are one person and the rest of me another person? or "My hand directed the crowd" Is my hand therefore another person than me? I mean all these statements of mine clearly show a personality for hand, eye,arm etc. so if my arm has a personality it must be a person right? that would be applying the same logic as is applied to holy spirit personality scriptures.

 

[hybrid]

To put it more bluntly. Does God the father have a spirit? If so, what is the spirit of God the Father called? Unholy spirit?, holy spirit? If I were to say that my spirit (my human spirit) does magnify the Lord, would it mean that i am two persons that are one person? If I say 'My strong arm holds the rope tightly" would it mean I am two persons me and my arm? Or" My eyes have seen the glory of the lord". Does that mean my eyes are one person and the rest of me another person? or "My hand directed the crowd" Is my hand therefore another person than me? I mean all these statements of mine clearly show a personality for hand, eye,arm etc. so if my arm has a personality it must be a person right? that would be applying the same logic as is applied to holy spirit personality scriptures.

hi 2ducklow,

Let’s apply the logic then to the Holy Spirit.


If I pat you with my hand to comfort you, you would not call my hand the comforter but you will call me (my person) the comforter. Right?


So, if the Father sends the Holy Spirit to comfort the disciples, if we follow the logic, Jesus would call the Father the comforter. But he did not. Right?

And so when the Father sends the Holy Spirit to comfort the disciples, Jesus called the Holy Spirit the comforter.

If I speak words of wisdom, you would not consider my mouth the teacher but me who speaks, right?

So when the Father sends the Holy Spirit to teach us all things, Jesus would have considered the Father the teacher (if again we follow the logic). But he did not, right?

So when the Father sends the Holy Spirit to teach us all things, Jesus considered the Holy Spirit as the teacher.

Same when also they did not say do not grieve the Father but the Holy Spirit.


Why wouldn’t Jesus follow the logic? Maybe, the Holy Spirit is not just an arm or extension or emanation of God.


Jesus has so much regard to the Holy Spirit that he is willing to forgive anyone who speaks against Him but not against the Holy Spirit. (and if we follow again the logic, He would have said against the Father, right?)


Why would Jesus esteem the Holy Spirit that much if He is just an emanation from the Father?

No, Jesus is treating the Holy Spirit as “another” fellow in all these cases .

 

[2ducklow]

hi 2ducklow,

Let’s apply the logic then to the Holy Spirit.


If I pat you with my hand to comfort you, you would not call my hand the comforter but you will call me (my person) the comforter. Right?

Depends on how I express it. I might say "Your hand comforted me" or I might say "you comforted me". Both mean the same thing just said in different ways. We both no that your hand isnt a seperate being from you doing the comforting.

So, if the Father sends the Holy Spirit to comfort the disciples, if we follow the logic, Jesus would call the Father the comforter. But he did not. Right?

Wrong. That God in his word never chose to call himself the comfortor but rather used the methodology of saying that the holy spirit was the comfortor does not mean that god doesnt comofort us and therefore isn't our comfortor.

If I speak words of wisdom, you would not consider my mouth the teacher but me who speaks, right?

This only helps my case.

So when the Father sends the Holy Spirit to teach us all things, Jesus would have considered the Father the teacher (if again we follow the logic). But he did not, right?

So when the Father sends the Holy Spirit to teach us all things, Jesus considered the Holy Spirit as the teacher.

Same when also they did not say do not grieve the Father but the Holy Spirit.


Why wouldn’t Jesus follow the logic? Maybe, the Holy Spirit is not just an arm or extension or emanation of God.Jesus has so much regard to the Holy Spirit that he is willing to forgive anyone who speaks against Him but not against the Holy Spirit. (and if we follow again the logic, He would have said against the Father, right?)


Why would Jesus esteem the Holy Spirit that much if He is just an emanation from the Father?

No, Jesus is treating the Holy Spirit as “another” fellow in all these cases .

The real question is is god personifying his spirit or not? We know from scripture that God is a spirit. And we also know from scritpure that God is holy. Therefore God is the holy spirit. There aren't 2 holy spirits. Actually the fact that the bible says God is a spirit clears it up. In other words God is adding the scripture that says god is holy to the scripture that says god is a spirit we get God is the holy spirit. Either god is a holy spirit or an unholy spirit. And since there can't be more than one god God has to be the and not a holy spirit. So the bible is the best commentary on the bible and when one interpets the scripture with scripture one finds that god does not in fact say nonsensical things but that gods word actually makes perfectly logical sense. And one finds that contradictions arent deep truths of god and that contradictions arent really in the bible. Just in mans interpetations of scirpture. .If the holy spirit is another fellow as you state. then you have 2 gods. one fellow, the holy spirit, is God. Another fellow, God the father, is god. But of course they aren't two gods they are one god.You can't sell that illogic of two fellows that are one fellow to me. If the holy spirit is a fellow and the holy spirit is god then god is a fellow. so you have 2 fellows that are one fellow. No matter how you cut it you will never make sense out of trinity because you will always come back to the problem of 3 fellows or 3 persons or 3 what evers that are one fellow or one person or one whatever.

 

[Peterson]

Mat. 12:31; It is an assumption that a third person is being spoken of here. The sin against the Holy Spirit was commtted by the Pharisees (verse 24) when they accused Jesus of doing the work of devils, rather than the Father working through Jesus (Holy Spirit). They committed the greater sin in that they knew he was of the Father, yet tried to convince the Jews that he was doing miracles by the power of Satan. In fact if anyone was doing the work of Satan it would be the Pharisees, who abused their office in every way. This is "sinning wilfully after receiving the knowledge of truth" as Hebrews 10: 26 makes clear.

The unforgiveness is not without end, but "in this age or the next age to come" (verse 32). There is nothing in Matthew 12 that can be used as proof of a Trinity, or of a third person Holy Ghost.

Acts 5:3; Here again, we have a case of one who deliberately lies after receiving the truth. The Holy Spirit is a reference to the Father as verse 4 makes clear, "Thou hast not lied unto men, but unto God."

Ephesians 4:30; "And grieve not the Holy Spirit of God" (Father). Obviously, this is the Spirit of the Father, and not a third person.

The NT acknowledges the Father and the Son, and no one else.

 

[hybrid]

HI peterson, 2ducklow,

let us consult the scriptures..

Jesus came to them and said, "All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me. 19Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit.

John 15:26: "But when the Comforter is come, whom I will send unto you from the Father, even the Spirit of truth, which proceedeth from the Father, he shall testify of me:"

As soon as Jesus was baptized, he went up out of the water. At that moment heaven was opened, and he saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove and lighting on Him. And a voice from heaven said, “This is my son, whom I love; with him I am well pleased.” Matt 3: 16,17 NIV

We read three divine personalities in the bible. i am to believe that this passages are inspired by God and was carefully worded and constructed as such.

there is no interpretation here, no arrived conclusion. IT IS JUST SIMPLY THERE, PLAINLY WRITTEN. is it that hard to see?

So i think your barking at the wrong tree, if you think the idea of three divine persons is illogical. don't look at me. i never invented it. say that to the writers of the bible.

so who is interpreting? who's cutting the scriptures? who is making premises with arrived conclusions?

 

[2ducklow]

HI peterson, 2ducklow,

let us consult the scriptures..

Jesus came to them and said, "All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me. 19Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit.

John 15:26: "But when the Comforter is come, whom I will send unto you from the Father, even the Spirit of truth, which proceedeth from the Father, he shall testify of me:"

As soon as Jesus was baptized, he went up out of the water. At that moment heaven was opened, and he saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove and lighting on Him. And a voice from heaven said, “This is my son, whom I love; with him I am well pleased.” Matt 3: 16,17 NIV

We read three divine personalities in the bible. i am to believe that this passages are inspired by God and was carefully word and constructed as such.

who is interpreting? who's cutting the scriptures? there is no interpretation here, no arrived conclusion. IT IS JUST SIMPLY THERE, PLAINLY WRITTEN. is it that hard to see?

So i think your barking at the wrong tree, if you think the idea of three divine persons is illogical. don't look at me. i never invented it. you say that to the writers of the bible.

There's more than one way to skin a cat and more than one way to interpet those scriptures you listed. your interpetation is not scripture and my interpetation is not scritpure. your interpretation makes no sense mine does. so at least i am right on the issue of making sense of gods word which you are not for you have 2 or 3 gods you call one god which is nonsense. i have one god god the father who is the holy spirit and jesus is his son not god. mine makes sense yours dont. I'll go with making sense of gods word.
3 divine personalities is not scripture it is an interpetation. it is not simply there it is your interpetation what is simply there is the scripture. what is plainly written is scripture not "3 divine personalities." All you have interpeted here is "three divine personalites" which contradicts "one god". I interpret john 15:26 to mean god sends his spirit down to man which is sent because of the redeeming work Jesus did at calvary. which results in one god i call one god. your interpetation "3 divine personalities" results in 3 gods which you no doubt would nonsensically call one god. does the bible make sense or doesnt it? is nonsense truth? or is nonsense untruth? the answers to these questions are quite obvious to me.

Jesus said "in as much as you have done it unto one of these the least of my brethern you have done it unto me." so that means the worst christian is jesus right? or is it a figure of speech? if your going to insist on 3 personalities (and therefore 3 gods logically) then you have to insist from this scirpture that jesus is the worst christian that ever was and also himself. 2 beings that are one being. do you really believe gods word is that nonsensical>?

 

[hybrid]

hi 2ducklow,

Is believing in the father nonsense?
Is believing in the Son nonsense?
Is believing in the Holy Spirit nonsense?

You pray to the father, you pray in the name of Jesus and you pray in the Holy Spirt.
Your salvation is authored by the Father, exectuted by Jesus and provided a way to bring us back to God and sealed by the Spirit, who works in your life to make your salvation areality.

what is so nonsense about these beliefs?

though the pharasees thought Jesus as the Christ is nonsense. i'm not saying you are a pharasee bro. but i think the attitude is dangerous to our spiritual health.

 

[hybrid]

The mediator between God and man must be fully God, fully man. doesn't it make sense to you?


8 But unto the Son he saith, Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness is the scepter of thy kingdom.


9 Thou hast loved righteousness, and hated iniquity; therefore God, even thy God, hath anointed thee with the oil of gladness above thy fellows. Heb 1:8-KJV

John 10:33
33 "We are not stoning you for any of these," replied the Jews, "but for blasphemy, because you, a mere man, claim to be God."

28 Thomas said to him, "My Lord and my God!" John 20:28NIV

5 Theirs are the patriarchs, and from them is traced the human ancestry of Christ, who is God over all, forever praised! Amen. Rom 9:5 NIV


16 Beyond all question, the mystery of godliness is great:
He appeared in a body,
was vindicated by the Spirit,
was seen by angels,
was preached among the nations,
was believed on in the world,
was taken up in glory. 1 Tim 3:16-NIV


13 while we wait for the blessed hope-the glorious appearing of our great God and Savior, Jesus Christ, 14 who gave himself for us to redeem us from all wickedness and to purify for himself a people that are his very own, eager to do what is good. Titus 2:12-14 NIV


3 Jesus has been found worthy of greater honor than Moses, just as the builder of a house has greater honor than the house itself. 4 For every house is built by someone, but God is the builder of everything. Heb 3:3-4 NIV

We know also that the Son of God has come and has given us understanding, so that we may know him who is true. And we are in him who is true-even in his Son Jesus Christ. He is the true God and eternal life. - 1 John 5:20 NI

 

[hybrid]

Ps 110:1

The LORD says to my Lord:
"Sit at my right hand
until I make your enemies
a footstool for your feet."

Acts 2:36
36 "Therefore let all Israel be assured of this: God has made this Jesus, whom you crucified, both Lord and Christ."

Phil 2:9-11
9 Therefore God exalted him to the highest place
and gave him the name that is above every name,
10 that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow,
in heaven and on earth and under the earth,
11 and every tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord,
to the glory of God the Father.

Rom 10:9
That if you confess with your mouth, "Jesus is Lord," and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.

1 Cor 12:3
3 Therefore I tell you that no one who is speaking by the Spirit of God says, "Jesus be cursed," and no one can say, "Jesus is Lord," except by the Holy Spirit.

After the resurrection of Jesus Christ, the disciples directed the title Lord to Jesus Christ. It is also noteworthy that the writers of the epistles liberally and almost carelessly or deliberately interchange the title Lord to Jesus and to God.

This is to remember that the disciples are Jews and zealous monotheists. So to call and address God and Jesus as Lord without distinction is unthinkable to Jews if in their mind Jesus is not God.

Moreover, they routinely took passages of the OT directed to God and quoted them in the NT addressing these passages to the Lord Jesus Christ - another thing no observant Jew would EVER do ...unless of course he was totally convinced that the one he was addressing those words to actually WAS God.

 

[hybrid]

hi 2ducklow,

as I have said, the idea of Jesus as the promised messiah was illogical and nonsensical during his time. by this alone i think it is quite reasonable to say that what seemed to be illogical or nonsense to us does not necessarily mean it is not the truth. specially if we are talking about God. is anything to difficult to God?

as i have posted before here, most non-trins cannot understand the view because they have a mindset that God has a numerical value of 1 as if god can be measured or quantified. God is spirit and unquantifiable and unfathomable. ontologically as finite being we are unqualified to know the infinite God.

We can only know him as how he chose to reveal himself. he don't question his revealation. we just believe it.

peace.

 

[Cubes]

To put it more bluntly. Does God the father have a spirit? If so, what is the spirit of God the Father called? Unholy spirit?, holy spirit? If I were to say that my spirit (my human spirit) does magnify the Lord, would it mean that i am two persons that are one person? If I say 'My strong arm holds the rope tightly" would it mean I am two persons me and my arm? Or" My eyes have seen the glory of the lord". Does that mean my eyes are one person and the rest of me another person? or "My hand directed the crowd" Is my hand therefore another person than me? I mean all these statements of mine clearly show a personality for hand, eye,arm etc. so if my arm has a personality it must be a person right? that would be applying the same logic as is applied to holy spirit personality scriptures.

Well said.

 

[Cubes]

The mediator between God and man must be fully God, fully man. doesn't it make sense to you?


8 But unto the Son he saith, Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness is the scepter of thy kingdom.


9 Thou hast loved righteousness, and hated iniquity; therefore God, even thy God, hath anointed thee with the oil of gladness above thy fellows. Heb 1:8-KJV

[/font]


You are right about that. The verse above disproves the Trinitarian interpretation of John 1:1 that two Gods are the Same being. Think about it.


Father and Son. Two people, two Gods. The Greater and True God is the Father who was preached by Jesus Christ and is worshipped by Christ and true worshippers in spirit and in truth (John 4).

It's ok to believe in the son and the holy spirit as long as you realize and acknowledge whom sends them. The giver of the Son and the Spirit is the God we call you to worship. He is one, not three in one.

In the old testament, God accomplished his purposes by the same Spirit and David knew about God's spirit yet, NOBODY spoke of persons 2 in 1 or three in 1. What was their attitude and understanding of God as relates to the Holy Spirit? What was Elijah, Elisha, Moses and Isaiah's attitudes?

The concept of Trinity is anti and extrabiblical.

John 10:33
33 "We are not stoning you for any of these," replied the Jews, "but for blasphemy, because you, a mere man, claim to be God."

Yes, and "he called them Gods to whom the word of the Lord came."

Also Ps 97:7. Let all the Gods worship him... it is only relevant if these Gods are actual Gods as opposed to idols.

If you are the Vice President of a Bank or whatever, what good is it to be called the vice president if you have no employees to preside over? So too is the Most High God, and his son, the Mighty God Jesus Christ as opposed to all others that may be called Gods or the sons of God.

28 Thomas said to him, "My Lord and my God!" John 20:28NIV

And he did. We can speculate to the right or the left of this scripture. But what I said above addresses it.
If you study all the post-resurrection scenes of scripture, you will find that no one was thinking they saw GOD Most High. His son? Yes. Rabboni? Yes.

5 Theirs are the patriarchs, and from them is traced the human ancestry of Christ, who is God over all, forever praised! Amen. Rom 9:5 NIV



16 Beyond all question, the mystery of godliness is great:
He appeared in a body,
was vindicated by the Spirit,
was seen by angels,
was preached among the nations,
was believed on in the world,
was taken up in glory. 1 Tim 3:16-NIV



13 while we wait for the blessed hope-the glorious appearing of our great God and Savior, Jesus Christ, 14 who gave himself for us to redeem us from all wickedness and to purify for himself a people that are his very own, eager to do what is good. Titus 2:12-14 NIV


3 Jesus has been found worthy of greater honor than Moses, just as the builder of a house has greater honor than the house itself. 4 For every house is built by someone, but God is the builder of everything. Heb 3:3-4 NIV

We know also that the Son of God has come and has given us understanding, so that we may know him who is true. And we are in him who is true-even in his Son Jesus Christ. He is the true God and eternal life. - 1 John 5:20 NI

[/QUOTE]

**Rom 9:5Whose [are] the fathers, and of whom as concerning the flesh Christ [came], who is over all, God blessed for ever. Amen.


Here is the KJV rendition of Romans 9:5--which is consistent with scripture.
Blessed by whom? Blessed by (the Most High) GOD. You don't bless yourself. You don't sit at your own right hand, and raise yourself from the dead, etc.


The rest of the scriptures that you have posted do confirm that Christ is a God, but do not show that he is the same being as the Most High God. In fact, I shall be willing to wager that a look at the surrounding scriptural texts would show that Christ is not the Father. I have not looked yet but that has been my experience.

And trinitarians actually agree on that, when it comes to the PERSONS, but then shift gears and say something totally unvalidated by scripture when they try to say Jesus is the same being and equal with himself! Ayaayaya. I love you though but you are speeding up my gray hairs.

 

[Cubes]

HI peterson, 2ducklow,

let us consult the scriptures..

Jesus came to them and said, "All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me. 19Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit.

John 15:26: "But when the Comforter is come, whom I will send unto you from the Father, even the Spirit of truth, which proceedeth from the Father, he shall testify of me:"

As soon as Jesus was baptized, he went up out of the water. At that moment heaven was opened, and he saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove and lighting on Him. And a voice from heaven said, “This is my son, whom I love; with him I am well pleased.” Matt 3: 16,17 NIV

We read three divine personalities in the bible. i am to believe that this passages are inspired by God and was carefully worded and constructed as such.

there is no interpretation here, no arrived conclusion. IT IS JUST SIMPLY THERE, PLAINLY WRITTEN. is it that hard to see?

So i think your barking at the wrong tree, if you think the idea of three divine persons is illogical. don't look at me. i never invented it. say that to the writers of the bible.

so who is interpreting? who's cutting the scriptures? who is making premises with arrived conclusions?

So does that say that we are to worship three persons as one? Or do those scriptures show that 1) Jesus is the Father's Son sent to preach unto us and to redeem us 2) The Spirit is the Father's Spirit by which he begat his son and adopts us as Children of God... This is my Son. A voice from heaven... while his Spirit attended to his son.

 

[Cubes]

hi cubes,

you are right in all points there.

but you seemed to stop one step further to get the whole picture of the gospel.

Help me out.

 

[2ducklow]

hi 2ducklow,

Is believing in the father nonsense?
Is believing in the Son nonsense?
Is believing in the Holy Spirit nonsense?

You pray to the father, you pray in the name of Jesus and you pray in the Holy Spirt.
Your salvation is authored by the Father, exectuted by Jesus and provided a way to bring us back to God and sealed by the Spirit, who works in your life to make your salvation areality.

what is so nonsense about these beliefs?

though the pharasees thought Jesus as the Christ is nonsense. i'm not saying you are a pharasee bro. but i think the attitude is dangerous to our spiritual health.

You haven't listed anything here that is nonsensical. a list of beliefs that you have doesnt mean that the nonsensical beliefs you have are correct.
listing 3 different gods and then saying they are one god would be nonsensical. a person of god is god. there are 3 persons of god that are God. which contradicts your first statement that a person of god is god. it is contradicted because trinitarians would next say 3 persons of god are god. which is it? see it is a contradiction which is utter nonsense.

 

[Peterson]

HI peterson, 2ducklow,

let us consult the scriptures..

Jesus came to them and said, "All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me. 19Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit.

John 15:26: "But when the Comforter is come, whom I will send unto you from the Father, even the Spirit of truth, which proceedeth from the Father, he shall testify of me:"

As soon as Jesus was baptized, he went up out of the water. At that moment heaven was opened, and he saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove and lighting on Him. And a voice from heaven said, “This is my son, whom I love; with him I am well pleased.” Matt 3: 16,17 NIV

We read three divine personalities in the bible. i am to believe that this passages are inspired by God and was carefully worded and constructed as such.

there is no interpretation here, no arrived conclusion. IT IS JUST SIMPLY THERE, PLAINLY WRITTEN. is it that hard to see?

So i think your barking at the wrong tree, if you think the idea of three divine persons is illogical. don't look at me. i never invented it. say that to the writers of the bible.

so who is interpreting? who's cutting the scriptures? who is making premises with arrived conclusions?

Since you are interested in clear Scripture, Matthew 28:19 cannot be construed to mean that the Holy Spirit is a third person of a Trinity. Just because it is included, doesn't give us the right to automatically assume that it is a third person. If you are looking for a concise definition of the God of the Bible, go to John's epistles where he does just that. Here he describes God, and says it is the doctrine of Christ himself. 2 John 9; Whosoever transgresseth, and abideth not in the doctrine of Christ, hath not God. He that abideth in the doctrine of Christ, he hath both the Father and the Son.

Notice that the Doctrtine of Christ himself concerning the makeup of the Godhead, includes the Father and the Son, and no one else.

Your other reference to the Comforter in John 15:26, is described as a spirit of truth which eminates from the Father. Flip a few pages to 2 Corinthians 1:3-4, and you will get a clear definition of who the comforter is. Blessed be the God , even our Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of mercies, and the God of all comfort; V.4; Who comforteth us in all our tribulation, that we may be able to comfort them which are in any trouble, by the comfort wherewith we are comforted of god.

This should be very easy to see, it is absolutely clear and you won't see any third person involved.

 

[2ducklow]

Since you are interested in clear Scripture, Matthew 28:19 cannot be construed to mean that the Holy Spirit is a third person of a Trinity. Just because it is included, doesn't give us the right to automatically assume that it is a third person. If you are looking for a concise definition of the God of the Bible, go to John's epistles where he does just that. Here he describes God, and says it is the doctrine of Christ himself. 2 John 9; Whosoever transgresseth, and abideth not in the doctrine of Christ, hath not God. He that abideth in the doctrine of Christ, he hath both the Father and the Son.

Notice that the Doctrtine of Christ himself concerning the makeup of the Godhead, includes the Father and the Son, and no one else.

Your other reference to the Comforter in John 15:26, is described as a spirit of truth which eminates from the Father. Flip a few pages to 2 Corinthians 1:3-4, and you will get a clear definition of who the comforter is. Blessed be the God , even our Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of mercies, and the God of all comfort; V.4; Who comforteth us in all our tribulation, that we may be able to comfort them which are in any trouble, by the comfort wherewith we are comforted of god.

This should be very easy to see, it is absolutely clear and you won't see any third person involved.

Thank you for john 15:26 it clearly shows that it is God the Father who comorts us with his spirit. God sends his spirit, the holy spirit to comfort us. therefore; God is the holy spirit. The bible is always a better interpeter of scritpure than church councils.
Godhead is not a biblical word. it is a bad translation of one of 3 similar greek words that mean divinity. The fact that God and Jesus are mentioned together in 2 john 1:9 is no proof that they are both gods in a godhead just as the mention of holy spirit in matthew 28:19 (which i believe is spurious anyway) means the holy spirit is part of some trinity, That Jesus is called the son in 2 john9 is proof that he is not god for there is only one god and Jesus is the son of that one God. If Jesus is God and his father is God then that would be 2 gods. Saying 2 beings are one being just goes into the realm of illogic and nonsensicalness.

2 John 1:3 Grace, mercy, peace shall be with us, from God the Father, and from Jesus Christ, the Son of the Father, in truth and love.

The same book you claim proves who God is states at the beginning that jesus is the son of the father and that God the father is God, hence the name 'God the Father". Notice it doesnt say here or anywhere 'God the son.' For your claim to be true 2 john 1:3 would have had to say God the son of the Father. Or some such nonsensical thing.

 

[hybrid]

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Father and Son. Two people, two Gods. The Greater and True God is the Father who was preached by Jesus Christ and is worshipped by Christ and true worshippers in spirit and in truth (John 4).

The rest of the scriptures that you have posted do confirm that Christ is a God, but do not show that he is the same being as the Most High God. In fact, I shall be willing to wager that a look at the surrounding scriptural texts would show that Christ is not the Father. I have not looked yet but that has been my experience.

So finally you do at least acknowledge that Christ is “a” God. You wrote an “a” I assumed to differentiate from the Father whom is “the” God.

I just want to clarify these, cubes…

Your belief is that the Father is the greater and true God and

Jesus Christ is the son of God who is also God (by relation or nature), only lesser than the father of course, after all he is just the son?

Is this fair description of your belief?

 

[Cubes]

So finally you do at least acknowledge that Christ is “a” God. You wrote an “a” I assumed to differentiate from the Father whom is “the” God.

I just want to clarify these, cubes…

Your belief is that the Father is the greater and true God and

Jesus Christ is the son of God who is also God (by relation or nature), only lesser than the father of course, after all he is just the son?

Is this fair description of your belief?

Hello Hybrid:

1 Cor 8:5 For even if there are so-called gods, whether in heaven or on earth (as there are many gods and many lords), 6 yet for us there is one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we for Him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, through whom are all things, and through whom we live.



The bible calls Jesus God/god and Lord, so I can call him God and Lord.
The bible shows that he worships his Father GOD and LORD, who is GOD OF ALL, the only God we are to worship (John 4).

Obviously there are various beings called God/god/Lord but we are shown the chain of command and who the creator is and are called to worship only him through his son.

eg. The Father is King, but so is Jesus and so was King Hussein of Jordan, and now his Son ?King Abdul??

The Father is Lord but so is Jesus and so are the Lords in England and my former landlord.

But are they the same persons and equal in authority due to their titles? No. Should we respect their offices as being ordained from God (the Father) and honor them likewise? Yes.

 

[Peterson]

I think if you check the word Elohim, you'll find that it is a compound noun, meaning that it is singular, but consisting of many internal elements, such as the word family. In this case, this is the meaning. God the Father is supreme in the God family. Jesus Christ is the eldest Son, who is the heir to the Father. Jesus as the eldest Son, is equal to the Father in this sense, but the Father is still supreme in the God family.

Within this framework, there is no place for a third person called the Holy Ghost. The Holy Spirit represents the nature of the God Family. Thus the doctrine of Christ allows for the Father and Son only. The good news is that we, the Father's ekklesia, will some day be part of that God family.

1 John 3:1-2; Behold, what manner of love the Father hath bestowed upon us, that we should be called the the sons of God: therefore the world knoweth us not, because it knew him not. V.2; Beloved, now we are the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is.

Romans 8:14; For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the Sons of God.

Verse 17;And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together.

2 Corinthians 6:18; And will be a Father unto you, and ye shall be my sons and daughters, saith the Lord Almighty.