TRINITARIANS: A Question about the Holy Spirit?

[hybrid]

Hi Hybrid:
It shows the depths of God's lovingkindness and mercy towards us and Jesus' love for us, and may God be magnified forever and his Christ.

Right cubes, john 3:16

You have kids, cubes? I have 9 and 12, every time their in pain. I also suffer, and wished that I could take the pain from them.

A faithful Christian's child 7, for some reason died from an ordinary treatable disease. He was devastated. To comfort him, his friends told him that the death of his son was not wasted because 8 of the child’s friend got afraid and repented of their sins and start believing Jesus. You know what the man said? “The world can go to hell, I want my son back!” O, The depths of the father’s love for his son!

"For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.”

Infinitely is the love of the Father to his Son Jesus and also felt infinitely the pain of the Father over the suffering and death of his Son into the hands of ingrate sinners so that sins may be forgiven.

For this is what man's salvation history is all about, the demonstration of God's love for us. for God is love.

God demonstrates his own love for us in this: While we were still sinners, Christ died for us. Rom 5:8 - niv

To demonstrate that God is love, the Son of God must be God.
For what kind of love it is if the one who died for you …

Is only a plan of God personified by Jesus. Or
Only a created being of God like an angel or
A holy and glorified man, or
a clean vessel prepared to be use by God?

No, the Son of God, Jesus Christ was God in the flesh.

In other words,

God Himself died for you cubes and for me and for the rest of the world.

This is the mystery hidden that is revealed in Christ.
This is the greatest love of all. And to that I am forever grateful to the Father.

Cubes this is the heart of the gospel. pls next time you think about God the Father, think about the Father heart of God.

 

[gort]

Right cubes, john 3:16

You have kids, cubes? I have 9 and 12, every time their in pain. I also suffer, and wished that I could take the pain from them.

A faithful Christian's child 7, for some reason died from an ordinary treatable disease. He was devastated. To comfort him, his friends told him that the death of his son was not wasted because 8 of the child’s friend got afraid and repented of their sins and start believing Jesus. You know what the man said? “The world can go to hell, I want my son back!” O, The depths of the father’s love for his son!

"For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.”

Infinitely is the love of the Father to his Son Jesus and also felt infinitely the pain of the Father over the suffering and death of his Son into the hands of ingrate sinners.

for this is what man's salvation history is all about, the demonstration of God's love for us. for God is love.

But God demonstrates his own love for us in this: While we were still sinners, Christ died for us. Rom 5:8 - niv

To demonstrate that God is love, the Son of God must be God.
For what kind of love it is if the one who died for you …

Is only a plan of God personified by Jesus. Or
Only a created being of God like an angel or
A holy and glorified man, or
a clean vessel prepared to be use by God?

No, the Son of God, Jesus Christ was God in the flesh.

In other words,

God Himself died for you cubes and for me and for the rest of the world.

This is the mystery hidden that is revealed in Christ.
This is the greatest love of all. And to that I am forever grateful to the Father.

Cubes this is the heart of the gospel. pls next time you think about God the Father, think about the Father heart of God.

Good post Hybrid!

So many cannot see the very Heart of God Himself on the Cross.

<><

 

[Cubes]

To demonstrate that God is love, the Son of God must be God.
For what kind of love it is if the one who died for you …

Is only a plan of God personified by Jesus. Or
Only a created being of God like an angel or
A holy and glorified man, or
a clean vessel prepared to be use by God?

No, the Son of God, Jesus Christ was God in the flesh.

In other words,

God Himself died for you cubes and for me and for the rest of the world.

This is the mystery hidden that is revealed in Christ.
This is the greatest love of all. And to that I am forever grateful to the Father.

Cubes this is the heart of the gospel. pls next time you think about God the Father, think about the Father heart of God.

Hello Hybrid,

Hope you are having a good week.

I was following you right up to the quote above. You've deviated from the gospel right at that very spot. Somehow at that very spot, you've gone in a different direction and need to come back.

The Mighty God, Jesus Christ, the Son of God died on the cross. The beloved and only begotten son of the Father. If this is what you are trying to say then I am with you 100%.

On the other hand if by saying Mighty God you mean that the God of all died, the One GOD and Father died, I disagree with you 100%. There is no such thing as a 3 in 1 God preached in the bible. The Son and the Father are not the same being just like you and your children are not the same being.

Now having said that, the story you shared does show how much the Father loved us as you say, because even we humans should hope never to be put to that test but many would rather face dangers and protect their children in so doing. Would you agree because it would be unthinkable and unbearable to rather give up our children. So that is what the Father went through. I love watching animal programs and have you seen a crocodile trying to protect her eggs or young? A bear, a bird, a seal... a kangaroo?
You name it! It is the most amazing thing. It actually inspired me to become a stay-at-home-mom. If animals can be so fiercely protective of their young, what am I doing giving mine up so easily and contracting others to take care of her because we need two incomes? Anyway, that's me... so I traded and went back to basics. But I believe that we love our children more and therein is the Father's love for us, that he should be willing to give up his own son that many more children may come into the Kingdom, knowing that he is able to raise him up again. But still Jesus suffered (endured the cross) and the Father watched his son suffer for our sake.

Jesus loved us and laid his life down for us which is also just as incredible and I in no way am here to take away from that. I am merely saying that it is the son who died. God counted his sacrifice not in vain because on that merit alone, he accepts us who accept his son! In other words, the Father places that incredible value, honor, recognition and worth on his son's sacrifice for humanity!

Now, I am not saying that Jesus is created or not created. I do not know. I know that I am created, and God chose to put such a value on me. Thus, it is the value that the Father places on us that matters regardless of our makeup. Satan is a God/god of this world (2 Cor 4:4), a cherubim and was still kicked out of heaven if you know what I mean. And yet, the widow with the mite, undoubtedly is going to be in the kingdom of God.

The gospel is good as it is and has the power of God to save us if we believe it.

Be blessed.

 

[hybrid]

Now, I am not saying that Jesus is created or not created. I do not know.

It’s quite clear in the bible cubes,

In the beginning was the word and the word was with god and the word was god.

The word “WORD”, john used here to refer to Jesus is the equivalent in Greek LOGOS. The word LOGOS is not a generic name for word, it has metaphysical, theological and philosophical significant meaning during the time when john wrote the book. This word was carefully chosen by john to refer to our lord Jesus as he began to write the gospel about the lord Jesus Christ.

These are the prevailing thoughts of that time for the word LOGOS…

Philo's conception of the Logos, therefore, is: the sum-total and free exercise of the divine energies; so that God, so far as he reveals himself, is called Logos; while the Logos, so far as he reveals God, is called God.

When John asserts that the logos became flesh he is indeed saying something that was never dreamt of by Philo or the Greek philosophers; but in all other respects it is their logos — the cosmic Mediator between God and the world, who is the personification of God's Truth and Wisdom — that John is referring to when he asserts that Christ is its incarnation.

After the Babylonish captivity the Jewish doctors combined into one view the theophanies, prophetic revelations and manifestations of Jehovah generally, and united them in one single conception, that of a permanent agent of Jehovah in the sensible world, whom they designated by the name Memra (WORD, &#955;&#8057;&#947;&#959;&#962 of Jehovah.


The word here points directly to Genesis 1, where the act of creation is effected by God speaking (compare Psalms 33:6). The idea of God, who is in his own nature hidden, revealing himself in creation, is the root of the Logos-idea, in contrast with all materialistic or pantheistic conceptions of creation.

In conclusion, when John wrote the prologue of his gospel, as far as his ancient readers were concerned, he never left them with no other interpretation as to whom Jesus was. That is, he made it very clear and sure that his readers would understand that Jesus is divine. (in its formal definition meaning his nature and qualities are essentially that of God)

 

[Cubes]

Again, I do not dispute Jesus' nature of being the Word and have no problem with the fact that God created the world through him. He is very living and personal to me. He just happens to be the Son of God and not God himself and seriously, he is the biggest proponent of that truth. It is just what everyone who loved God in the bible understood and believed of him.

Jesus was not reluctant to declare himself for once he asked the Pharisees:

Matt 22:41 While the Pharisees were gathered together, Jesus asked them, 42 saying, "What do you think about the Christ? Whose Son is He?"
They said to Him, "The Son of David."
43 He said to them, "How then does David in the Spirit call Him 'Lord,' saying:

44 'The LORD (YHWH) said to my Lord,
"Sit at My right hand,
Till I make Your enemies Your footstool"'?*

45 If David then calls Him 'Lord,' how is He his Son?" 46 And no one was able to answer Him a word, nor from that day on did anyone dare question Him anymore.



Whose Son is he? That is the question and the relevant point as concerns our salvation. And do please note that Christ himself differentiates himself from YHWH here and portrays two individuals in King David's quote--, one being his God and Father and the other, himself.

 

[Cubes]

And

Matthew 12:41 The men of Nineveh will rise up in the judgment with this generation and condemn it, because they repented at the preaching of Jonah; and indeed a greater than Jonah is here. 42 The queen of the South will rise up in the judgment with this generation and condemn it, for she came from the ends of the earth to hear the wisdom of Solomon; and indeed a greater than Solomon is here.



So Jesus was not for some reason trying to hide the fact of his identity. But he never claimed to be GOD, the Highest, so I would thank Trinitarians to stop saying and implying he did.

 

[Cubes]

And

Says Jesus the Lord:

Matt 23:8 But you, do not be called 'Rabbi'; for One is your Teacher, *the Christ, and you are all brethren. 9 Do not call anyone on earth your father; for One is your Father, He who is in heaven. 10 And do not be called teachers; for One is your Teacher, the Christ.


And


Luke 4:18 "The Spirit of the LORD is upon Me,
Because He has anointed Me
To preach the gospel to the poor;
He has sent Me *to heal the brokenhearted,
To proclaim liberty to the captives
And recovery of sight to the blind,
To set at liberty those who are oppressed;
19 To proclaim the acceptable year of the LORD."*

 

[hybrid]

Again, I do not dispute Jesus' nature of being the Word and have no problem with the fact that God created the world through him. He is very living and personal to me. He just happens to be the Son of God and not God himself and seriously, he is the biggest proponent of that truth. It is just what everyone who loved God in the bible understood and believed of him.

Jesus was not reluctant to declare himself for once he asked the Pharisees:

Matt 22:41 While the Pharisees were gathered together, Jesus asked them, 42 saying, "What do you think about the Christ? Whose Son is He?"
They said to Him, "The Son of David."
43 He said to them, "How then does David in the Spirit call Him 'Lord,' saying:

44 'The LORD (YHWH) said to my Lord,
"Sit at My right hand,
Till I make Your enemies Your footstool"'?*

45 If David then calls Him 'Lord,' how is He his Son?" 46 And no one was able to answer Him a word, nor from that day on did anyone dare question Him anymore.



Whose Son is he? That is the question and the relevant point as concerns our salvation. And do please note that Christ himself differentiates himself from YHWH here and portrays two individuals in King David's quote--, one being his God and Father and the other, himself.

i have no disagrement with this statement. but is this statement could be fairly say that Jesus is the word and the word is same nature of god and therefore JEsus is same nature with his father God?

 

[Cubes]

i have no disagrement with this statement. but is this statement could be fairly say that Jesus is the word and the word is same nature of god and therefore JEsus is same nature with his father God?

Hi Hybrid:

This is a true statement and we can rest in it with confidence if we are in Christ:



1 John 3:1-3 Behold what manner of love the Father has bestowed on us, that we should be called children of God! Therefore the world does not know *us, because it did not know Him. 2 Beloved, now we are children of God; and it has not yet been revealed what we shall be, but we know that when He is revealed, we shall be like Him, for we shall see Him as He is. 3 And everyone who has this hope in Him purifies himself, just as He is pure.



Amen?

 

[hybrid]

And

Matthew 12:41 The men of Nineveh will rise up in the judgment with this generation and condemn it, because they repented at the preaching of Jonah; and indeed a greater than Jonah is here. 42 The queen of the South will rise up in the judgment with this generation and condemn it, for she came from the ends of the earth to hear the wisdom of Solomon; and indeed a greater than Solomon is here.



So Jesus was not for some reason trying to hide the fact of his identity. But he never claimed to be GOD, the Highest, so I would thank Trinitarians to stop saying and implying he did.

what can i say, i'm a trin, but never imply that jesus was God Himself (The Father). jesus is claiming to be the son of god. it is that, to the jews, the reason they are trying to stone him, is that to say that you are son of god is equivalent to say that he is god. because that is the jewish conception of father-son relationship. even before the jewish council, he was condemned for admiting that he is the son of god. to the jews it was blasphemy and worthy of death. having the same mindset that son of god is just as like as saying that you are god. those are their beliefs based on their writings. they condemned Jesus only because they did'nt think that He was who he claimed to be. but if they do, they would have not condemned him but instead worhipped as did thomas. who confess my lord and my god.

and Jesus said, now you believe. what is it that thomas is not believing, that he is god? no, but that he is the son of god. remember that thomas was all along with jesus when the jews were repeatedly trying to kill him for saying he is the son of god.

so when thomas saw the risen christ, he finally believe that what jesus claiming all along that he is the son of god is true. and he worshipped him. this is then the greatest proof in scripture that god and son of god have equivalent meaning. for thomas caled him god.

and this is what john meant when he called Jesus the LOGOS of GOD.

now, did i post this already. this is good reading..

If Jesus is not the divine, eternal Son of God, of one substance with the Father, then all Christian worship of him is idolatrous. But if he is the true and living Lord, then all worship must be in Christ Jesus, for no one comes to the Father except by the Son.

 

[hybrid]

Hi Hybrid:

This is a true statement and we can rest in it with confidence if we are in Christ:



1 John 3:1-3 Behold what manner of love the Father has bestowed on us, that we should be called children of God! Therefore the world does not know *us, because it did not know Him. 2 Beloved, now we are children of God; and it has not yet been revealed what we shall be, but we know that when He is revealed, we shall be like Him, for we shall see Him as He is. 3 And everyone who has this hope in Him purifies himself, just as He is pure.



Amen?

amen cubes.i'm always excited when this day comes. to know jesus fully as he is and put a stop to all this discussion.

but of course ,you would agree that the revealed word of god has given us enough information to know Jesus the way god wanted us to know him as we await the full disclosure of his person.

Now, I am not saying that Jesus is created or not created. I do not know.

I'm saying that JESUS is the LOGOS of GOD, but then again if you don't know, you don't know... guess i can respect that.

peace

 

[Cubes]

amen cubes.i'm always excited when this day comes. to know jesus fully as he is and put a stop to all this discussion.

but of course ,you would agree that the revealed word of god has given us enough information to know Jesus the way god wanted us to know him as we await the full disclosure of his person.

I'm saying that JESUS is the LOGOS of GOD, but then again if you don't know, you don't know... guess i can respect that.

peace

What a day that'd be for more reasons than one!

I too believe that Jesus is the Word/Logos spoken of in John 1:1 and that nothing was made that was made except through him and that leads me to make a connection with Genesis 1 when God spoke things into being.

 

[hybrid]

What a day that'd be for more reasons than one!

I too believe that Jesus is the Word/Logos spoken of in John 1:1 and that nothing was made that was made except through him and that leads me to make a connection with Genesis 1 when God spoke things into being.

we have little disagrement already, perhaps only from distinguishing the meaning of the word "begotten" from "created".

Jesus was twice begotten (not created) by God the Father, first as "the word of god" in the beginning to create the universe and secondly as the "only begotten " son of god in mary's womb to reveal God and redeem man.

Just think of Him in the most literal sense as the son of God. the Father and the son together created the universe and that would make him automatically outside and above creation.

Now, I am not saying that Jesus is created or not created. I do not know.

so if you can't still make up your mind whether Jesus is created or not, forget about that He is a created being by God. not in a long shot, if all things are created thru him and by him and for him.

 

[hybrid]

What a day that'd be for more reasons than one!

i don't think i like the sound of that....

but never mind.