Trinitarianism: What Non-Trinitarians Believe

[CherubRam]

God is not a man: In Numbers 23:16; "God is not a man..." defies the possibility that Yahshua The Messiah is God. The text states that: Yahwah is not an ("iys/man) that He should lie, nor the son of (Adam/Man")...

Also Here:

Hosea 11:9
I will not carry out my fierce anger, nor will I devastate Ephraim again. For I am God, and not a man— the Holy One among you.

Psalm 80:17
Let your hand rest on the man at your right hand, the son of man you have raised up for yourself.

Matthew 22:44
" '(The Lord / Yahuah) said to my lord: "Sit at my right hand until I put your enemies under your feet." '


Matthew 26:64
"Yes, it is as you say," Jesus replied. "But I say to all of you: In the future you will see the Son of Man sitting at the right hand of the Mighty One and coming on the clouds of heaven."

Matthew 22:41
41While the Pharisees were gathered together, Jesus asked them, 42"What do you think about the Messiah ? Whose son is he?" "The son of David," they replied. 43He said to them, "How is it then that David, speaking by the Spirit, calls him 'lord'? For he says, 44" '(The Lord / Yahuah) said to my lord: "Sit at my right hand until I put your enemies under your feet." 45If then David calls him 'lord,' how can he be his son?"

Matthew 1:20
But after he had considered this, an (angel / messenger) of (the Lord / Yahuah) appeared to him in a dream and said, “Joseph son of David, do not be afraid to take Mary home as your wife, because what is conceived in her is from the Holy Spirit.

John 10:36
what about the one whom the Father set apart as his very own and sent into the world? Why then do you accuse me of blasphemy because I said, ‘I am God’s Son’?

Exodus 20:3. "You shall have no other gods (Elohiyms) before me.

Deuteronomy 4:35. You were shown these things so that you might know that the LORD (Yahuah) is God (Elohiym); besides Him there is no other.

Deuteronomy 4:39. Acknowledge and take to heart this day that the LORD (Yahuah) is God (Elohiym) in heaven above and on the earth below. There is no other.

Deuteronomy 5:7. "You shall have no other (gods / elohiyms) before me.

Deuteronomy 6:4. Hear, O Israel: The Lord (Yahuah) our God (Elohiym), the LORD (Yauwah) is one (only.)

1 Kings 8:60. So that all the peoples of the earth may know that the LORD (Yahuah) is God (Elohiym) and that there is no other.

Isaiah 42:8. "I am the LORD (Yahuah); that is my name! I will not give my glory to another or my praise to idols.


Isaiah 43:10. "You are my witnesses," declares the LORD (Yahuah), "and my servant whom I have chosen, so that you may know and believe me and understand that I am He. Before me no god (el) was formed, nor will there be one after me.

Isaiah 44:8. Do not tremble, do not be afraid. Did I not proclaim this and foretell it long ago? You are my witnesses. Is there any God (Eloah=Gods above) besides me? No, there is no other Rock; I know not one."

Isaiah 45:5. I am the LORD (Yahuah), and there is no other; apart from me there is no (God / Elohiym).

6. so that from the rising of the sun to the place of its setting men may know there is none besides me. I am (the LORD / Yahuah), and there is no other.

Isaiah 45:14. This is what (the LORD / Yahuah) says: "The products of Egypt and the merchandise of Cush, and those tall Sabeans— they will come over to you and will be yours; they will trudge behind you, coming over to you in chains. They will bow down before you and plead with you, saying, 'Surely God (El) is with you, and there is no other; there is no other god (Elohiym).' "

Isaiah 45:18. For this is what (the LORD / Yahuah) says: He who created the heavens, He is God (Elohiym); He who fashioned and made the earth, He founded it; He did not create it to be empty, but formed it to be inhabited: He says: "I am (the LORD / Yahuah), and there is no other.

Isaiah 45:22. "Turn to me and be saved, all you ends of the earth; for I am God (El), and there is no other.

Isaiah 46:9. Remember the former things, those of long ago; I am God (El), and there is no other; I am God (Elohiym), and there is none like me.

Joel 2:27. Then you will know that I am in Israel, that I am (the LORD / Yahuah) your God (Elohiym), and that there is no other; never again will my people be shamed.


Yahwah is God and he won't give his glory to another god.

The Greatest Commandment

Mark 12:28. One of the teachers of the law came and heard them debating. Noticing that Jesus (Yahshua) had given them a good answer, he asked him, "Of all the commandments, which is the most important?"

29. "The most important one," answered Jesus (Yahshua), "is this: 'Hear, O Israel, (the Lord / Yahuah) our God (Elohiym), (the Lord / Yahuah) is one (only).

Mark 12:32. "Well said, teacher," the man replied. "You are right in saying that (God / Yahwah) is one (only) and there is no other but Him.


John 14:28. "You heard me say, 'I am going away and I am coming back to you.' If you love me, you would be glad that I am going to the Father, for the Father is greater than I.

John 5
41 “I do not accept praise from men.

John 5
41 “I don’t need [or accept; receive] praise [glory; honor] from [men; people.]

Notice how they are dodging these scriptures....

 

[2ducklow]

What human lived their life without any sin ever?

The last adam.

No mere human can live a life without ever sinning.

The last adam could and did.

You are merely speaking over me.

Nothing I've said is too deep to grasp.

Recognize what I am saying.

I have. you said Jesus is not a mere human, I agree, Jesus is not the first adam. a mere human would be the first adam, i.e. us, a non mere human would be some other kind of human, which kind Jesus is, Jesus is the last adam, not the first adam.

1 Cor 15:45 Thus, also, it is written--The first man, Adam, became, a living soul, the last Adam, a life-giving spirit

so i'm defining a non mere human as the last adam. what is your definition of a non mere human?, since you coined the term perhaps you would define it.

 

[THIS]

It was not by Jesus' own strength that he didn't sin.

Jesus IS THE SPIRIT. The SPIRIT IS GOD.

 

[THIS]

Notice how they are dodging these scriptures....

I have answered these scriptures, but you do not pay attention.

 

[THIS]

The last adam.
The last adam could and did.

Nothing I've said is too deep to grasp.

I have. you said Jesus is not a mere human, I agree, Jesus is not the first adam. a mere human would be the first adam, i.e. us, a non mere human would be some other kind of human, which kind Jesus is, Jesus is the last adam, not the first adam.

1 Cor 15:45 Thus, also, it is written--The first man, Adam, became, a living soul, the last Adam, a life-giving spirit

so i'm defining a non mere human as the last adam. what is your definition of a non mere human?, since you coined the term perhaps you would define it.

[FONT=&quot]Jesus was no mere human. Jesus was God come in the flesh.[/FONT]

 

[jamie2014]

[FONT=&quot]Jesus was no mere human. Jesus was God come in the flesh.[/FONT]

In what way?

 

[THIS]

In what way?

You have been told repeatedly. Jesus is God come in the flesh.

 

[2ducklow]

[FONT=&quot]Jesus was no mere human. Jesus was God come in the flesh.[/FONT]

2 john 1.7 For many deceivers are entered into the world, who confess not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh. This is a deceiver and an antichrist.

scripture says JEsus is come in the flesh, not Jesus was god come in the flesh.

(KJV) 1 Timothy 3:16 16 And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.


or is it this.

(ASV) 1 Timothy 3:16 16 And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness; He who was manifested in the flesh, Justified in the spirit, Seen of angels, Preached among the nations, Believed on in the world, Received up in glory.

is it 'he who" or is it "God"? which is correct and why?


your way you got God was manifest in the flesh, god wasjustified, god was seen of angels, god was preached to the gentiles god was believed on and God was received up to Glory.

but it the as v is correct then you got

Jesus was manifest (come in the flesh) in the flesh,Jesus was justified Jesus was seen of angels, Jesus was preached to the gentiles, Jesus was believed on, Jesus was received up to Glory.

on this point the ASV makes much more sense than the kjv.

and actually, one could argue that saying God was come in the flesh is denying that Jesus is come in the flesh. Since Jesus is not God. IT wasn't God who came in the flesh, no scripture says that. scripture says Jesus was come in the flesh. So the KJV translation conteradicts 2 john 1.7. so on that point also the KJV translation has to be incorrect.

 

[THIS]

[FONT=&quot]2 john 1.7 For many deceivers are entered into the world, who confess not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh. This is a deceiver and an antichrist.

scripture says JEsus is come in the flesh, not Jesus was god come in the flesh.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Jesus is come in the flesh, but he is NO MERE HUMAN.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]You erroneously tried to use scripture against me.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]The scriptures say Jesus was no mere human.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]
[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]
is it 'he who" or is it "God"? which is correct and why? [/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Jesus is God come as a Son of Man, a Son of God.
[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]
your way you got God was manifest in the flesh, god wasjustified, god was seen of angels, god was preached to the gentiles god was believed on and God was received up to Glory.

but it the as v is correct then you got

Jesus was manifest (come in the flesh) in the flesh,Jesus was justified Jesus was seen of angels, Jesus was preached to the gentiles, Jesus was believed on, Jesus was received up to Glory.

on this point the ASV makes much more sense than the kjv.

and actually, one could argue that saying God was come in the flesh is denying that Jesus is come in the flesh. Since Jesus is not God. IT wasn't God who came in the flesh, no scripture says that. scripture says Jesus was come in the flesh. So the KJV translation conteradicts 2 john 1.7. so on that point also the KJV translation has to be incorrect.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Jesus CAME from heaven. That is what all translations say.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Do all humans come from heaven? No, they do not.[/FONT]


[FONT=&quot]Jesus was not always known as Jesus. Jesus is the human name given to God in the flesh.[/FONT]


[FONT=&quot]However, Jesus was always the visible of the invisible of God.[/FONT]


[FONT=&quot]Jesus was the First and the Last.[/FONT]


[FONT=&quot]Jesus came from heaven and lived in heaven with the Spiritual BODY of Jesus the Man. Jesus had First what he will give us all Last.
[/FONT]


[FONT=&quot]The plan for salvation through Jesus was made by God before the creation of anything.[/FONT]


[FONT=&quot]
[/FONT]

 

[2ducklow]

[FONT=&quot]Jesus is come in the flesh, but he is NO MERE HUMAN.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]You erroneously tried to use scripture against me.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]The scriptures say Jesus was no mere human.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]

No scripture says Jesus was no mere human.

[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Jesus is God come as a Son of Man, a Son of God.
[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Jesus CAME from heaven. That is what all translations say.

Jesus did come from heaven in the sense that he came from his Father who was in heaven.

[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Do all humans come from heaven? No, they do not.[/FONT]


[FONT=&quot]Jesus was not always known as Jesus. Jesus is the human name given to God in the flesh.[/FONT]

No scripture says that.

[FONT=&quot]However, Jesus was always the visible of the invisible of God.[/FONT]

No scripture says that. in fact scripture in matthew says "the beginning of Jesus Christ".

matthew 1.1 The book of the generation ( 1078 beginning) of Jesus Christ, the son of David, the son of Abraham

18 Now the birth (1078 same word that's in matthew 1.1)of Jesus Christ was on this wise: When as his mother Mary was espoused to Joseph, before they came together, she was found with child of the Holy Ghost.

New Testament Greek Definition:
1078 genesis {ghen'-es-is}
from the same as 1074; TDNT - 1:682,117; n f
AV - generation 1, natural 1, nature 1; 3
1) source, origin 1a) a book of one's lineage, i.e. in which his ancestry or
progeny are enumerated
2) used of birth, nativity
3) of that which follows origin, viz. existence, life
3a) the wheel of life (Jas 3:6), other explain it, the wheel of
human origin which as soon as men are born begins to run, i.e.
its course of life

Online Bible Search for Bible Study - ESV, NKJV, NASB and KJV

IN fact source and origin are the 2 primary definitions of the greek word (1078)in matthew 1.1 So the book of matthew begins with the origin of Jesus Christ. Jesus had an origin, a beginning. he wasn't always. always is your theology, not scripture. scripture says Jesus had an origin, your saying he is always contradicts matthew 1.1

[FONT=&quot]Jesus was the First and the Last.[/FONT]


[FONT=&quot]Jesus came from heaven and lived in heaven with the Spiritual BODY of Jesus the Man. Jesus had First what he will give us all Last.

No scripture says any of that.

[/FONT]


[FONT=&quot]The plan for salvation through Jesus was made by God before the creation of anything.[/FONT]


[FONT=&quot]
[/FONT]

yep.

 

[THIS]

No scripture says Jesus was no mere human.
Jesus did come from heaven in the sense that he came from his Father who was in heaven.
No scripture says that.
No scripture says that. in fact scripture in matthew says "the beginning of Jesus Christ".

matthew 1.1 The book of the generation ( 1078 beginning) of Jesus Christ, the son of David, the son of Abraham

18 Now the birth (1078 same word that's in matthew 1.1)of Jesus Christ was on this wise: When as his mother Mary was espoused to Joseph, before they came together, she was found with child of the Holy Ghost.



Online Bible Search for Bible Study - ESV, NKJV, NASB and KJV

IN fact source and origin are the 2 primary definitions of the greek word (1078)in matthew 1.1 So the book of matthew begins with the origin of Jesus Christ. Jesus had an origin, a beginning. he wasn't always. always is your theology, not scripture. scripture says Jesus had an origin, your saying he is always contradicts matthew 1.1
No scripture says any of that.
yep.

All you did was lie by saying, "No scripture says any of that".


You lie about the scriptures.


Jesus came from heaven.



[FONT=&quot]John 3:13 No one has ever gone into heaven except the one who came from heaven--the Son of Man.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]John 17:5 And now, Father, glorify me in your presence with the glory I had with you before the world began.[/FONT]


[FONT=&quot]John 17:24 "Father, I want those you have given me to be with me where I am, and to see my glory, the glory you have given me because you loved me before the creation of the world.[/FONT]

 

[2ducklow]

Jesus came from heaven.



[FONT=&quot]John 3:13 No one has ever gone into heaven except the one who came from heaven--the Son of Man.[/FONT]

e] Jesus is speaking of himself here in a metonomy for the word of god. Jesus is the word of God in the sense that he is the fulfillment of the word of god for man. Jesus is the plan or word of god for man. The reason this has to be is because it says the son of man ascended and descended. Jesus was not the son of man before he was born even by trinitairan standards. Jesus was only the son of man (Mary) when he was born, and Jesus did not ascend into heaven during his ministry as a man even by Trinitarian theology. So I was right no scripture says Jesus ascended and descended into heaven, scripture states that it was the son of man, thus it has to be figurative because the man Christ jesus (everyone agrees on this point) didn't ascend into heaven until after the resurrection.

[FONT=&quot]John 17:5 And now, Father, glorify me in your presence with the glory I had with you before the world began.[/FONT]

{Jesus is here speaking of himself as a stand in for the first adam. it was the first adam who lost the glory of God's own self in the Garden of eden. the first adam didn't have the glory of God's own self all the way from adams fall in the garden of eden until Jesus died and restored that glory to the first adam (Us). Proof that Jesus was speaking as a stand in for the first adam in the verse you quote is found in the 22nd verse wherein Jesus gives that glory to us.

5 And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was.
22 And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one:

It cannot be that Jesus lost the glory of God's own self from the time before the world began up until jesus spoke those words in john 17.5. That contradicts even Trinitarian theology.

[FONT=&quot]John 17:24 "Father, I want those you have given me to be with me where I am, and to see my glory, the glory you have given me because you loved me before the creation of the world.[/FONT]

And Jesus was loved before the creation of the world because Jesus was foreknown before the creation of the world. Jesus was foreknown by god at that time, not known by god.

Darby) 1 Peter 1:20 foreknown indeed before [the] foundation of [the] world, but who has been manifested at the end of times for your sakes,

 

[THIS]

e] Jesus is speaking of himself here in a metonomy for the word of god. Jesus is the word of God in the sense that he is the fulfillment of the word of god for man. Jesus is the plan or word of god for man.
{Jesus is here speaking of himself as a stand in for the first adam. it was the first adam who lost the glory of God's own self in the Garden of eden. the first adam didn't have the glory of God's own self all the way from adams fall in the garden of eden until Jesus died and restored that glory to the first adam (Us). Proof that Jesus was speaking as a stand in for the first adam in the verse you quote is found in the 22nd verse wherein Jesus gives that glory to us.

5 And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was.
22 And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one:

It cannot be that Jesus lost the glory of God's own self from the time before the world began up until jesus spoke those words in john 17.5. That contradicts even Trinitarian theology.



And Jesus was loved before the creation of the world because Jesus was foreknown before the creation of the world. Jesus was foreknown by god at that time, not known by god.

Darby) 1 Peter 1:20 foreknown indeed before [the] foundation of [the] world, but who has been manifested at the end of times for your sakes,

You speak much nonsense.

You are doing a horrible job at trying to nullify God's Word.

Just believe what is plainly written.

John 17:5 And now, Father, glorify me in your presence with the glory I had with you before the world began.

John 17:24 "Father, I want those you have given me to be with me where I am, and to see my glory, the glory you have given me because you loved me before the creation of the world.

John 3:13 No one has ever gone into heaven except the one who came from heaven--the Son of Man.

John 6:62
Then what if you see the Son of Man ascend to where he was before!

 

[2ducklow]

You speak much nonsense.

You are doing a horrible job at trying to nullify God's Word.

Just believe what is plainly written.

Red herrings, aka poisoning the well. serves no purpose except to divert attention from the topic.

John 17:5 And now, Father, glorify me in your presence with the glory I had with you before the world began.

I already responded. you ignored my response.

John 17:24 "Father, I want those you have given me to be with me where I am, and to see my glory, the glory you have given me because you loved me before the creation of the world.

I already responded, you ignored my response.

John 3:13 No one has ever gone into heaven except the one who came from heaven--the Son of Man.

John 6:62
Then what if you see the Son of Man ascend to where he was before!

no one believes that Jesus was the son of man before he was born. Jesus didn't become the son of man until he was born of mankind through Mary. That carefull choice of son of man instead of son of God precludes from one interpreting it to mean that Jesus existed in heaven and descended from heaven literally because no one believes Jesus was the son of man prior to his birth.

 

[THIS]

Red herrings, aka poisoning the well. serves no purpose except to divert attention from the topic.
I already responded. you ignored my response.
I already responded, you ignored my response.


no one believes that Jesus was the son of man before he was born.

Jesus is God. Jesus was God before coming to earth. Try harder to understand what others are saying.

Jesus didn't become the son of man until he was born of mankind through Mary. That carefull choice of son of man instead of son of God precludes from one interpreting it to mean that Jesus existed in heaven and descended from heaven literally because no one believes Jesus was the son of man prior to his birth.

Jesus CAME from heaven. Your false doctrine falls apart at that Truth.

 

[2ducklow]

Jesus is God. Jesus was God before coming to earth. Try harder to understand what others are saying.

no scripture says Jesus is God. no scripture says jesus was god before coming to earth. Everyone understands what 'Jesus is God', and 'Jesus was god before he came to earth' means.

Jesus CAME from heaven. Your false doctrine falls apart at that Truth.

no verse says Jesus came from heaven. scripture says the son of man ascended to heaven and the son of man came from heaven. and no one says that Jesus was the son of man before he was born. Mary did not become pregnant with Jesus before the world was.


John 3:13 No one has ever gone into heaven except the one who came from heaven--the Son of Man.

this verse says the son of man came from heaven.

John 6:62
Then what if you see the Son of Man ascend to where he was before!


this verse says the son of man ascended to where he was before.

Jesus did not ascend to heaven until after the resurrection, No one says or believes that Jesus was the son of Mary before Jesus was born, therefore the interpretation you put on these verses is incorrect.

john 3.13 And, no one, hath ascended into heaven, save he that, out of heaven, descended,--The Son of Man.

well that has to be viewed in light of this scripture.

(Rotherham) John 20:17 Jesus saith unto her--Be not detaining me, for, not yet, have I ascended unto the Father; but be going unto my disciples, and say unto them--I am ascending unto my Father and your Father, and my God and your God.

so how can JEsus say in one verse he ascended into heaven and in another he says he hasn't ascended to his Father? because JEsus is the word of God that descended out of heaven. Jesus is figuratively the word of god in that Jesus is the fulfillment of God's word for man. Jesus is the fulfillment of God's plan or word for man.

I don't think one can rightfully consider the ascending of the son of man spoken of in john 3.13 and the ascending of Jesus after his resurrection to be the same sort of ascending. Do you think Jesus was physically ascending into heaven during his ministry? I don't think any church teaches that.

john 6. 31 Our fathers, did eat, the manna, in the desert,--just as it is written: Bread out of heaven, he gave them to eat. 32 Jesus said unto them--Verily, verily, I say unto you: Not Moses, gave you the bread out of heaven; but, my Father, giveth you the real bread out of heaven. 33 For, the bread of God, is that which is coming down out of heaven, and giving, life, unto the world. 34 They said, therefore, unto him--Sir! Evermore, give us this bread. 35 Jesus said unto them--I, am the bread of life: he that cometh unto me, in nowise shall hunger, and, he that believeth on me, in nowise shall thirst, any more.

Jesus is not literally a loaf of bread. Jesus is figuratively the manna from heaven and Jesus figuratively descended from heaven because Jesus is figuratively the word of God. Jesus is not literally all the words God speaks, he is figuratively all the words God speaks. So how then did Jesus ascend into heaven? by communing with God who was in heaven. that is how Jesus ascended into heaven during his ministry, and when he did he descended with the manna from heaven, God's words.

Well it's pretty obvious that we've beat this dead horse long enough. course we both have totally different ideas as to what horse is the dead horse.

 

[THIS]

[FONT=&quot]no scripture says Jesus is God. no scripture says jesus was god before coming to earth. Everyone understands what 'Jesus is God', and 'Jesus was god before he came to earth' means.

[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]The Bible does show us that Jesus is God. [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]God even says that Jesus would be called God.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
Isaiah 9:6 For to us a child is born, to us a son is given, and the government will be on his shoulders. And he will be called Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace.


God says Jesus is called God, but you do not want me to say what God says. You do not want me to call Jesus what God calls him.
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]

[FONT=&quot][/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]no verse says Jesus came from heaven. scripture says the son of man ascended to heaven and the son of man came from heaven. and no one says that Jesus was the son of man before he was born. Mary did not become pregnant with Jesus before the world was.

[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]You are speaking nonsense, and you are lying about what the scripture clearly says.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
John 3:13 No one has ever gone into heaven except the one who came from heaven--the Son of Man.[FONT=&quot][/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]
[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]
(Rotherham) John 20:17 Jesus saith unto her--Be not detaining me, for, not yet, have I ascended unto the Father; but be going unto my disciples, and say unto them--I am ascending unto my Father and your Father, and my God and your God.

so how can JEsus say in one verse he ascended into heaven and in another he says he hasn't ascended to his Father? because JEsus is the word of God that descended out of heaven. Jesus is figuratively the word of god in that Jesus is the fulfillment of God's word for man. Jesus is the fulfillment of God's plan or word for man.

[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]You are not making any sense. Jesus came from heaven. Jesus went back to heaven from where he came.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]That is what the scriptures say.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]

I don't think one can rightfully consider the ascending of the son of man spoken of in john 3.13 and the ascending of Jesus after his resurrection to be the same sort of ascending. Do you think Jesus was physically ascending into heaven during his ministry? I don't think any church teaches that.

[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]It is almost as if you are deliberating speaking nonsense. [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]

john 6. 31 Our fathers, did eat, the manna, in the desert,--just as it is written: Bread out of heaven, he gave them to eat. 32 Jesus said unto them--Verily, verily, I say unto you: Not Moses, gave you the bread out of heaven; but, my Father, giveth you the real bread out of heaven. 33 For, the bread of God, is that which is coming down out of heaven, and giving, life, unto the world. 34 They said, therefore, unto him--Sir! Evermore, give us this bread. 35 Jesus said unto them--I, am the bread of life: he that cometh unto me, in nowise shall hunger, and, he that believeth on me, in nowise shall thirst, any more.

Jesus is not literally a loaf of bread. Jesus is figuratively the manna from heaven and Jesus figuratively descended from heaven because Jesus is figuratively the word of God. Jesus is not literally all the words God speaks, he is figuratively all the words God speaks. So how then did Jesus ascend into heaven? by communing with God who was in heaven. that is how Jesus ascended into heaven during his ministry, and when he did he descended with the manna from heaven, God's words.

[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Jesus is speaking of Spiritual things. [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]The scripture says the SON OF MAN came from heaven. [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]

Well it's pretty obvious that we've beat this dead horse long enough. course we both have totally different ideas as to what horse is the dead horse.

[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]You are disrespectful about God’s Word. No wonder you do not have God’s Truth revealed to you.[/FONT]

 

[jamie2014]

[FONT=&quot]The Bible does show us that Jesus is God. [/FONT]

You must be Catholic. They believe Mary is the mother of God.

 

[CherubRam]

John 3
13 No one has ever gone into heaven, except the one who came from heaven, the Son of Man.

I think that verse should read: 13 No one has ever gone “back” into heaven, except the one who came from heaven, the Son of Man.
That is, no one has ever gone back after dying.



Genesis 5:23
Altogether, Enoch lived a total of 365 years. 24 Enoch walked faithfully with God; then he was no more, because God took him away.

2 Kings 2:11
And it came to pass, as they still went on, and talked, that, behold, there appeared a chariot of fire, and horses of fire, and parted them both asunder; and Elijah went up by a whirlwind into heaven.

Matthew 17:3
Just then there appeared before them Moses and Elijah, talking with Jesus.

 

[THIS]

You must be Catholic. They believe Mary is the mother of God.

You do not care about the truth. You make ignorant comments that show your ignorance.

I gave you God's written Word that says Jesus is God. You come back on and speak dumbness.

You do not deserve all the attention you are being given about God's Truth.