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Trinitarianism: What Non-Trinitarians Believe
- Thread starter CherubRam
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THIS
I only want God's Truth
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You defend false doctrines with dumbness. There is no question about that. I gave you scripture and you speak about the Catholic's false doctrine of Mary the mother of God.
Jesus is God come as a Son of God.
You try to nullify scripture with scripture.
You cannot nullify scripture by finding another scripture that you do not understand.
However, I believe in all the scriptures.
Isaiah 9:6 For to us a child is born, to us a son is given, and the government will be on his shoulders. And he will be called Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace.
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Isaiah 9.6 says His name shall be called all that. not he will be called god. you quoted from a very inaccurate bible translation, the Good news bible translation. All other translations either say "his name shall be called ' or "he shall be named".
Isaiah 9:6 GNT
Good News Translation
A child is born to us! A son is given to us! And he will be our ruler. He will be called, "Wonderful Counselor," "Mighty God," "Eternal Father," "Prince of Peace."
(KJV) Isaiah 9:6
6 For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given:
and the government shall be upon his shoulder:
and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God,
The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.
Isaiah 9:6 YLT
Young's Literal Translation
For a Child hath been born to us, A Son hath been given to us, And the princely power is on his shoulder, And He doth call his name Wonderful, Counsellor, Mighty God, Father of Eternity, Prince of Peace.
you can go here to see innumerable translations of that verse.
http://www.biblestudytools.com/isaiah/9-6-compare.html
There is no record in the NT of anyone calling JEsus any of these names. So obviously the scripture is meant to be revelatory about who Jesus is. Jesus name is called the mighty God because, IMO, all the fullness of the divinity was in him, God was in Christ reconciling the world to himself. Same with all the other attributes such as wonderful.
you have to decide which translation is the correct one, the one you chose or the one I chose. I think most all translations say "his name shall be called"THIS said:
red herring, poisioning of the well, detracts from the issues.THIS said:
and I explained what I think it means.THIS said:
More red herrings, aka poisoning of the well.THIS said:
and you end with more red herrings, aka poisoning of the well. It makes anyone's case look really bad when they repeatedly resort to logical fallacies such as red herrings, argumentum ad hominums etc., to defend it. that is it does to anyone hip to what logical fallacies are.THIS said:
here's a place where you can download wallpaper with all the logical fallacies and their definitions on it.
https://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/
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THIS
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[FONT="]It is almost laughable what you just did, but it is too serious to laugh. [/FONT]
[FONT="]I said I call Jesus “God”, “Father”, and Holy Spirit because that is what God says Jesus' name will be.[/FONT]
[FONT="]You come on and say the scripture does not say that. Then you give the scripture that plainly says that.[/FONT]
[FONT="]Believe what is written![/FONT][FONT="]
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[FONT="]You cannot squash the Truth, no matter how hard you try. God says Jesus will be called God, but you say he is not God. God says it, but you go against God.[/FONT]
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[FONT="]The translations say the same. If his name is God, then why do you tell me I am wrong? Jesus is God, just as God says. You say I am wrong for saying what God says. I call Jesus God because that is what God says to call him.
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[FONT="]The only red herring here is your using the term red herring.[/FONT]
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Jesus was given his Daddy's name. and Jesus Father is God, so God and Jesus have the same name. In fact my real name, not 2ducklow, contains the Hebrew name of God.
(ASV) John 17:11 11 And I am no more in the world, and these are in the world, and I come to thee. Holy Father, keep them in thy name which thou hast given me, that they may be one, even as we are.
so one has to decide if the fact that God gave Jesus his own name proves that Jesus is God. and one also has to decide which version of john 17.11 is correct.
Online Bible Search for Bible Study - ESV, NKJV, NASB and KJV
I all boils down to whether the TR is correct or WH is correct. and that all boils down to which prep. is correct,
is it which or is it whom. TR says whom, WH says which. everyone decides for themselves, even if they let someone else decide for them they are still deciding for themselves.
I had intended to bring this point up previously but forgot. See it relates to isa 9.6 in that Jesus was given the name that is God's name, so that when isa 9.6 says Jesus name shall be called mighty god, it's because Jesus has the same name god has, not because Jesus is God.
extremely relevant point, in my estimation.
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THIS
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[/FONT]
[FONT="]Jesus is God. Do you have a problem with my saying that? That is what God says Jesus name is. That is what I call him.[/FONT]
[FONT="]Unlike the false doctrine of trinity, Jesus is God, and the Father, and the Holy Spirit just as God says.[/FONT]
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[FONT="]Jesus saves when you call on him, whether or not you say a Hebrew version of his name or not.
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[FONT="] [/FONT]
[FONT="]I call Jesus God because that is what God says Jesus name is.[/FONT]
[FONT="] [/FONT]
[FONT="]Jesus is God in the flesh. Jesus is God come as a Son of God, a Son of Man.[/FONT]
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the description of your doctrine is also the description of the trinity doctrine.
my name is God's name too. my name is Ja...... Ja is God's name. so you should believe I am god too using the logic that you are using.THIS said:
God was in Christ, all the fullness of the divinity dwells in Jesus. The key word is in, not is. In doesn't mean is. A rock in a sack is a totally different concept than a rock is a sack. if something is in something, then it can't be the thing it is in. everyone knows that ,except when discussing trinity or Jesus is God or some such thing. that simple logic totally evades most people on this subject but no where else.THIS said:
From a practical standpoint though, I probably have more in common with most people who believe Jesus is God than with those who don't believe Jesus is God. When I see Jesus I call him God sometimes. Sometimes when I'm in the spirit I call Jesus God, because when I see Jesus I'm seeing God who is in Christ. Jesus said he that hath seen me hath seen the father. and everytime I see Jesus, like in visions, I'm seeing God. Also I pray to Jesus because praying to Jesus is praying to his Father who is God. So one could say that we both believe Jesus is God, we just have different concepts as to how Jesus is God. I say Jesus is God because God indwells him and because god manifests himself to me in Jesus so that when I speak to or see Jesus I am speaking to and seeing God. So for me, Jesus functions as god in my life. to you he and 2 others are literally god. But the result is the same. Both concepts result in us both praying to Jesus and calling him God.
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Actually, Peter said, "Ye men of Israel, hear these words, Jesus of Nazareth, a man approved of God among you by miracles and wonders and signs, which God did by him in the midst of you, as ye yourselves also know."
God worked through Jesus, who was a man approved of God, to do miracles and wonders and signs. Jesus was human just like us and could do nothing of himself. Jesus could only do what God did through him.
Jesus was God in the flesh because he was indwelt by the Father the same as you and me. And like us Jesus could only do what God did through him.
All you have done is to make yourself a golden calf and called it Jesus.
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THIS
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[/FONT]
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[FONT="]It is up to you to put more into your studies. Jesus says with the measure you use it will be measured to you.[/FONT]
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[FONT="]You can tell you are not putting any thing into your studies, it shows because of your ignorant comments, such as the one you just made.[/FONT]
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[FONT="]You are being disrespectful again. Did an angel come to your virgin mom? [/FONT]
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[FONT="]God says Jesus name is God. Why does it bother you so much that I call Jesus God?[/FONT]
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[FONT="]The Truth matters. It sounds as if you are saying Jesus is the same God as the Father, and that is UNLIKE those of the trinity doctrine. [/FONT]
[FONT="]You might start seeing Jesus as God in the flesh when you come to realize that there is not a spirit of the Man Jesus, and another Spirit inside Him called God as is for those saved. We have a spirit of our own inside us, but we are also given the Holy Spirit. Jesus Spirit is the Holy Spirit. [/FONT]
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One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all. (Ephesians 4:6)
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No but one just came to me and whispered in my ear telling me to stop talking to you.
THIS said:
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- Dec 21, 2012
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People! Different languages do not always translate well. You need to be mindful of that fact. To make matters worse, different peoples, groups, and organizations insert their own personal beliefs into scriptures. So what is the dividing line for truth? It is this! If it is not a belief in the original orthodox Judaism, then it is a lie. There's your clue!
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Norah63
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The word trinity was made up in the latin language.
Three is three, one is one. Could we say unity instead?
It is easier to be accepted in most forums if you will say, " I am trinity", than if you say,
"Jesus is my Lord".
So many are learning from the web these days that old terms are being looked into.
Three is three, one is one. Could we say unity instead?
It is easier to be accepted in most forums if you will say, " I am trinity", than if you say,
"Jesus is my Lord".
So many are learning from the web these days that old terms are being looked into.
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I had sort of a revelation I guess you'd call it about why the catholic church was originally opposed to the bible being written in peoples languages. It's just easier on everyone if everyone just submissively accepts whatever comes from the pulpit. And if everyone is stupid about what the bible says, then that job is even easier. Add in a healthy dose of inquisition and voila you got a rock solid doctrine with 100 percent agreement (all churches have an inquisition, none of course are as potent as the original one). I'd always assumed that the reason was because the catholic church didn't want everyone to know what the bible really said, nowI think differently.
Now the problem is like just the opposite. Everyone has their own idea and there's 10 zillion of them. Same with the trinity or most anything. It's discouraging. The significant thing about this is that in any church it's the same thing, everybody has their own ideas about some things. Should we go left, should we go right should we stay where we are, take a vote and it isn't going to be 100 percent in any category (unless it's a show of hands vote, then the official position would get 100 percent or close to it). Think I'll go out in the wilderness sit in my lawn chair, drink some coffee, and think on this some more. Gotta work this one out.
Now the problem is like just the opposite. Everyone has their own idea and there's 10 zillion of them. Same with the trinity or most anything. It's discouraging. The significant thing about this is that in any church it's the same thing, everybody has their own ideas about some things. Should we go left, should we go right should we stay where we are, take a vote and it isn't going to be 100 percent in any category (unless it's a show of hands vote, then the official position would get 100 percent or close to it). Think I'll go out in the wilderness sit in my lawn chair, drink some coffee, and think on this some more. Gotta work this one out.
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