Trinitarianism: What Non-Trinitarians Believe

[THIS]

Aw, come on now, Mary knew that her child was special and she saw it early in him even as a baby. I would judge she knew better than any others.

Yes and no doubt better than This does.

You speak nonsense.

You want to put me down, and that is not right.

Luke 8:21 "My mother and my brothers," He replied, "are these who hear God's Message and obey it."

See also Luke 2:14.

 

[THIS]

It is your opinion that the truth offends her. Maybe it is you that when someone don't agree with you, you see them as too offensive.

Any discussion in which one don't agree and comes back to counter is a type of offense. But if it is in the right spirit that is what a discussion is about.

Here is a truth that will stand, "The Truth can stand investigation and Invites it!"

Let us therefore invite investigation of our views. It we find our view is not truth, the sooner the better and we should be glad and not mad.

She came on insulting me, and you back her. You both show exactly what you are.

Your fruit now looks rotten to me.

 

[CherubRam]

Hi CherubRam.

A question:

what part of the trinity do you not believe in?

Thank you kindly.

I believe the Holy Spirit is a name title for the Father, a manifestation of the Father Himself; not a third person. When Christ speaks of himself and the Father being "One," he is speaking of unity. We are also called to be "One" in the Father through Christ. The trinity proof text have been altered from the original text to prove that God is triune. Trinitarianism has never been a teaching in Judaism. If God was a trinity, then He or the prophets would have said so.

 

[CherubRam]

God became a Man.

John 1:14 The Word became flesh and made his dwelling among us. We have seen his glory, the glory of the one and only Son, who came from the Father, full of grace and truth.

All who will receive life immortal, and those who are in heaven, are called gods and elohiyms. Yahshua is a god sent from heaven by our Holy Father. There is only one true God, and that is Yahwah.

 

[4x4toy]

She came on insulting me, and you back her. You both show exactly what you are.

Your fruit now looks rotten to me.

Peter's ministry was to the Jews .. He was shown in a vision to baptize gentiles and they spoke with the gift of tongues .. So Peter knew salvation was for the gentiles equal with the Jews .. Peter was sent to the Jews , when he didn't eat with the gentiles in front of the Jews , he of all people should have knew that was wrong .. Was he at a critical point of teaching to those Jews and not wanting to lose them over such a small matter ? Did he reason not to offend at the present then later ease them into teaching when they were capable of receiving no longer milk but the meat of the Word ? I don't know ..
Paul bragged that he opposed Peter to his face in front of every one .. The Word says to confront your brother in private . Note that Paul at some time was given a thorn in his flesh to prevent being puffed up with pride .. I don't know ..

 

[4x4toy]

All who will receive life immortal, and those who are in heaven, are called gods and elohiyms. Yahshua is a god sent from heaven by our Holy Father. There is only one true God, and that is Yahwah.

Who is Immanuel .. a god or God with us as a man

 

[CherubRam]

Who is Immanuel .. a god or God with us as a man

In translating the scriptures, a scholar determines if the article "a" is needed in a translation. If the person believe that God is a trinity, then they will not use the article "a."




Isaiah 9:6
For to us a child is born, to us a son is given, and the government will be on his shoulders. And he will be called Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace.

This is how that verse should read.

Isaiah 9:6
For to us a child is born, to us a son is given, and the government will be upon his shoulders. And he will be called Wonderful Counselor, of the Mighty God and Everlasting Father, ministering in Peace. ( Or, leading in peace.


If you run the Hebrew word through a Hebrew to English translator is will read “minister.”

 

[Gibs]

You speak nonsense.

You want to put me down, and that is not right.

Luke 8:21 "My mother and my brothers," He replied, "are these who hear God's Message and obey it."

See also Luke 2:14.

No dear This, I am not putting you down. I just see that Mary, Christ's Mother is a special woman to be chosen the mom of Jesus.

 

[Norah63]

One non-trinity belief is just that everyone must work out there own salvation and not let a man made set of rules do it for them. If they come not with the doctrine of the Father and the Son (both) then have no part with them.
The Holy Ghost leads the willing into all light, as opposed to man made doctrine.
Unity of the Spirit, its the only way.

 

[Der Alte]

In translating the scriptures, a scholar determines if the article "a" is needed in a translation. If the person believe that God is a trinity, then they will not use the article "a."

Isaiah 9:6
For to us a child is born, to us a son is given, and the government will be on his shoulders. And he will be called Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace.

This is how that verse should read.

Isaiah 9:6
For to us a child is born, to us a son is given, and the government will be upon his shoulders. And he will be called Wonderful Counselor, of the Mighty God and Everlasting Father, ]ministering in Peace. ( Or, leading in peace.

If you run the Hebrew word through a Hebrew to English translator is will read “minister.”

Online translators are not very accurate and they only translate modern Hebrew. As with English, Hebrew has changed in the last 2000 years.

Here is a translation by native Hebrew speaking Jewish scholars in the Targum dating to 200-700 BC.

Isaiah 9:6 His name is called from eternity, Wonderful, The Mighty God, who liveth to eternity, Wonderful, The Messiah, whose peace shall be great upon us in His days.
7. The greatness of those who do the law shall be magnified, and those, that preserve peace. There shall be no end to the throne of David, and of his kingdom, to establish it and to build it in judgment and in righteousness from henceforth, even for ever. By the Word of the Lord of hosts this shall be done.

The Chaldee Paraprase The Prophet Isaiah, Translated By Rev. C. W. H. Pauli, London Society's House, 1871​

 

[brinny]

Originally Posted by brinny View Post
Hi CherubRam.

A question:

what part of the trinity do you not believe in?

Thank you kindly.

I believe the Holy Spirit is a name title for the Father, a manifestation of the Father Himself; not a third person. When Christ speaks of himself and the Father being "One," he is speaking of unity. We are also called to be "One" in the Father through Christ. The trinity proof text have been altered from the original text to prove that God is triune. Trinitarianism has never been a teaching in Judaism. If God was a trinity, then He or the prophets would have said so.

What Bible verses are you basing your response on?

Thank you kindly.

 

[Der Alte]

... Paul bragged that he opposed Peter to his face in front of every one .. The Word says to confront your brother in private . Note that Paul at some time was given a thorn in his flesh to prevent being puffed up with pride .. I don't know ..

The scripture does not say that Paul bragged or that he confronted Peter publically.

Gal 2:11 But when Peter was come to Antioch, I withstood him to the face, because he was to be blamed.​

Peter evidently did not bear any ill will toward Paul.

2Pe 3:15 And account that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation; even as our beloved brother Paul also according to the wisdom given unto him hath written unto you;​

 

[4x4toy]

The scripture does not say that Paul bragged or that he confronted Peter publically.

Gal 2:11 But when Peter was come to Antioch, I withstood him to the face, because he was to be blamed.​

Peter evidently did not bear any ill will toward Paul.

2Pe 3:15 And account that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation; even as our beloved brother Paul also according to the wisdom given unto him hath written unto you;​

NKJV Gal 2;14-16 .. and again Paul referred to so called Super-Apostles .. Paul was chosen by Jesus and was ordained Apostle in every endowment as the rest of the apostles but IMO a different personality including full of zeal to preach Jesus .. I find no fault in either Paul or Peter but plenty in myself

 

[Gibs]

One non-trinity belief is just that everyone must work out there own salvation and not let a man made set of rules do it for them. If they come not with the doctrine of the Father and the Son (both) then have no part with them.
The Holy Ghost leads the willing into all light, as opposed to man made doctrine.
Unity of the Spirit, its the only way.

He stated plainly to us,

Joh 14:6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

He alone has made the Way of salvation and the Way He made cannot be changed or lessened in any way by man or it is not valid.

The pre-incarnate Jesus was the giver of the law to Moses and when He talked of the law of not a jot or tittle would pass from it that alone is what He is speaking of!

 

[THIS]

No dear This, I am not putting you down. I just see that Mary, Christ's Mother is a special woman to be chosen the mom of Jesus.

Are you dense? You joined in with the silly woman who called me a troll. Move on. I care very little about what you, or anyone thinks of me. Your personal opinions will be ignored for now on.

 

[THIS]

Peter's ministry was to the Jews .. He was shown in a vision to baptize gentiles and they spoke with the gift of tongues .. So Peter knew salvation was for the gentiles equal with the Jews .. Peter was sent to the Jews , when he didn't eat with the gentiles in front of the Jews , he of all people should have knew that was wrong .. Was he at a critical point of teaching to those Jews and not wanting to lose them over such a small matter ? Did he reason not to offend at the present then later ease them into teaching when they were capable of receiving no longer milk but the meat of the Word ? I don't know ..
Paul bragged that he opposed Peter to his face in front of every one .. The Word says to confront your brother in private . Note that Paul at some time was given a thorn in his flesh to prevent being puffed up with pride .. I don't know ..

It is no small matter about what Peter did wrong.

You falsely judge Paul.

You are doing great harm to yourself with your false beliefs.

 

[THIS]

All who will receive life immortal, and those who are in heaven, are called gods and elohiyms. Yahshua is a god sent from heaven by our Holy Father. There is only one true God, and that is Yahwah.

Jesus is the MAN who came from heaven.

That is what the scriptures say.

Jesus is God, Father, and the Holy Spirit.

That is what God says Jesus will be called, and that is what I call him.


Isaiah 9:6 For to us a child is born, to us a son is given, and the government will be on his shoulders. And he will be called Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace.


God says Jesus will be called, God, Father, and the Holy Spirit. I call Jesus those things, but you do not want me to call Jesus the names God says he will be called.

I do what God says, not what you say.

 

[Gibs]

Are you dense? You joined in with the silly woman who called me a troll. Move on. I care very little about what you, or anyone thinks of me. Your personal opinions will be ignored for now on.

This, I do not speak ill of you or feel any ill toward you, I just don't agree with all your thesis.

 

[THIS]

This, I do not speak ill of you or feel any ill toward you, I just don't agree with all your thesis.

You want others to be blind to what you do. God sees what you have done, and what you are doing.

 

[CherubRam]

What Bible verses are you basing your response on?

Thank you kindly.

Yahwah, who is Elohiym, is the Holy Spirit.

Psalm 51:10,11
10 Create in me a pure heart, O God (Elohiym), and renew a steadfast spirit within me. 11 Do not cast me from your presence or take your Holy Spirit from me.

Isaiah 63:7,10
7 I will tell of the kindnesses of the LORD (Yahwah) , the deeds for which he is to be praised, according to all the LORD (Yahwah) has done for us— yes, the many good things he has done for the house of Israel, according to his compassion and many kindnesses. 10 Yet they rebelled and grieved his Holy Spirit. So he turned and became their enemy and he himself fought against them.

Isaiah 63:11
Then his people recalled the days of old, the days of Moses and his people— where is he who brought them through the sea, with the shepherd of his flock? Where is [He / he] who set his Holy Spirit among them,

Psalm 18:31
For who is God (Eloah) besides [the LORD / Yahwah?] And who is the Rock except our God (Elohiym)?

1 Corinthians 12:3
Therefore I tell you that no one who is speaking by the Spirit of God says, "Yahshua be cursed," and no one can say, "Yahshua is lord," except by the Holy Spirit.

1 Thessalonians 4:8
Therefore, he who rejects this instruction does not reject man but God, who gives you his Holy Spirit.

Luke 6:46
"Why do you call to me, 'Lord, Lord,' and do not do what I say?

Matthew 4:10
Jesus said to him, "Away from me, Satan! For it is written: 'Worship (the Lord / Yahwah) your God, and serve him only.' "

Luke 4:8
Yahshua answered, "It is written: 'Worship (the Lord / Yahwah) your God and serve him only.' "

John 5:41
"I do not accept praise from men,...


Hebrews 1:6
And again, when God brings his firstborn into the world, he says, "Let all God's angels worship him."

N.I.V. Foot note:

Deuteronomy 32:43. Masoretic Text; Dead Sea Scrolls (see also Septuagint) people, / and let all the angels worship him

Holman Bible foot note:

Deuteronomy 32:43 LXX reads: #1 Rejoice, you heavens, along with Him, and let all the sons of God worship Him; #2 rejoice, you nations, with his people, and let all the (angels / messengers) of God strengthen themselves in him;

DSS reads: Rejoice, you heavens, along with him, and let all the angels worship him; Regards to [Heb 1:6]

Hebrews 1
1 In the past God spoke to our ancestors through the prophets at many times and in various ways, 2 but in these last days he has spoken to us by his Son, whom he appointed heir of all things, and [for / through] whom also he made the universe. 3 The Son is the radiance of God’s glory and the exact representation of his being, sustaining all things by his powerful word. After he had provided purification for sins, he sat down at the right hand of the Majesty in heaven. 4 So he became as much superior to the (angels / messengers) as the name he has inherited is superior to theirs.

5 For to which of the (angels / messengers) did God ever say,
“You are my Son;
today I have become your Father”?
Or again,
“I will be his Father,
and he will be my Son”?
6 And again, when God brings his firstborn into the world, he says,
“Let all God’s (angels / messengers) worship him.” [c] (let all the (angels / messengers) of God strengthen themselves in him.)
7 In speaking of the (angels / messengers) he says,
“He makes his (angels / messengers) spirits,
and his servants flames of fire.”
8 But about the Son he says,
“Your throne, O (God / god), will last forever and ever;
a scepter of justice will be the scepter of your kingdom.
9 You have loved righteousness and hated wickedness;
therefore God, your God, has set you above your companions
by anointing you with the oil of joy.”

Holman Christian Standard Bible
Deuteronomy 32:39. See now that I alone am He; there is no God but Me.

John 4:21 Yahshua declared, "Believe me, woman, a time is coming when you will worship the Father neither on this mountain nor in Jerusalem. 22 You Samaritans worship what you do not know; we worship what we do know, for salvation is from the Jews. 23 Yet a time is coming and has now come when the true worshipers will worship the Father in spirit and truth, for they are the kind of worshipers the Father seeks. 24 God is [a] spirit, and his worshipers must worship in spirit and in truth."

God is a Spirit, and He is Holy. And that is why He is called Holy Spirit.


Note: Had the people and prophets of Judaism gotten it wrong as to who God is? If they had, wouldn't God have informed them that He was a trinity? Is there a divine mystery where only the Catholic Papacy could make it known that Yahwah is a Trinity?













The Faith of Abraham
Exodus 6
1. Then Yahwah said to Moses, "Now you will see what I will do to Pharaoh: Because of my mighty hand he will let them go; because of my mighty hand he will drive them out of his land."
2. Elohiym said to Moses, "I’m Yahwah. 3. I appeared to Abraham, to Isaac and to Jacob as God Almighty, but by my name Yahwah I did not make known to them.

Joshua 24
1. Then Joshua assembled all the tribes of Israel at Shechem. He summoned the elders, leaders, judges and officials of Israel, and they presented themselves before Elohiym. (The Sons of God present themselves)
2. Joshua said to all the people, "This is what Yahwah, the Elohiym of Israel, says: 'Long ago your forefathers, including Terah the father of Abraham and Nahor, lived beyond the River (Euphrates) and worshiped other gods. 3 But I took your father Abraham from a land beyond that River and led him throughout Canaan and gave him many descendants.

Nehemiah 9
7. "You are Yahwah,[Lifes Beginning] Elohiym, [God of the Living] who chose Abram and brought him out of Ur of the Chaldeans and named him Abraham. (Babylon)

During the days of Abraham people worshipped idols and pagan gods that they created for themselves, and also a Pagan trinity. Abraham believed that God is a living being, and that He is the only true God. That is why you see this verse Deut 6:4 in scripture.

Deuteronomy 6:4
Hear, O Israel: Yahwah our God, Yahwah is only.
This was to serve as a warning because the land that they were entering had Pagan trinities.

Mark 12:29
"The most important one," answered Jesus, "is this: 'Hear, O Israel, Yahwah our God, Yahwah is only.
During the days of Yahshua, the Hellenistic and Kabbalistic Jews began introducing trinitarism into Judaism.


In the days of Abraham there was a Pagan trinity, and Abraham would have known that, due to that fact that where he lived in Ur that was known. Had he believed that God Almighty was a trinity, he would have not said Elohiym was the only true God. Also Moses who would know about Trinitarianism said, Yahwah is only, and not three.