Triclavianism?

[Moros]

Triclavianist: One who believes that three nails were used in the Crucifixion of Jesus Christ.

Is this an innovation of the Roman Catholics?

I do not ever see a single nail being driven into both feet in Orthodox iconography

A "Catholic" painting of the Crucifixion

an Orthodox Icon of the Crucifixion:

- Bruncvik,
Still learning

 

[Matthias]

I stronly believe one nail. Why would there need to be two? Call me Roman Catholic or whatnot, but I believe it was one nail for the feet.

 

[Moros]

Judging by the way they crucified people (breaking of the legs) either way is entirely probable. In fact, it looks like it would kill you even faster with a footboard.

However, the one nail doesn't appear (to my knowledge) in Orthodox Iconography and I want to know why.

Roman Catholic!

 

[Matthias]

Either way, I am sure glad I never had to go through that sort of torture.

 

[prodromos]

I'm pretty sure every icon I have seen for the finding of the True Cross has four nails. One of them is at the Monastery of the Archangel Michael on the island of Thassos here in Greece (wonderful story of how it came to end up there ). I haven't thought to look into where the other three are yet.

John.

 

[Moros]

So the one nail for both feet is Roman innovation?

 

[Photini]

Interesting. THe Icons I have seen all have four nails. I believe in Orthodox iconography of the Crucifixion, Christ is usually not shown wearing the crown of thorns either.

 

[Lady_Firehawk]

Uhhhh... does it really matter how many nails were used?

 

[Kripost]

Never paid attention the number of nails before. I will take note of it the next time I go to Orthodox and Catholic parishes.

 

[Oblio]

Uhhhh... does it really matter how many nails were used?

Only insofar as truth matters Orthodox are quite united on doctrinal matters, so sometimes we need to discuss what appears to be trivial things to stir up debate

 

[Moros]

Uhhhh... does it really matter how many nails were used?

Yes.

 

[prodromos]

Uhhhh... does it really matter how many nails were used?

Well we wouldn't want to be venerating a nail that wasn't actually used in Christ's crucifixion now would we

 

[Kripost]

Just a thought.... do any of the nails still survive as relics?

 

[xenia]

Uhhhh... does it really matter how many nails were used?

Yeah, it kinda does, in a way that's hard to explain to non-Orthodox.

Some Protestant churches fall into the dispair of "nothing really matters." Everything gets reduced down to the bare minimum of "what's the least we need to do to be saved?" and everything beyond this is viewed as either legalism or superstition. So, communion becomes a mere memorial supper with the elements reduced to store-brand grape juice and oyster crackers because "Does it really matter what we use? It's what's in our hearts that count." Baptism is stripped of its genuine meaning and reduced to a quick dunk in the church's hot tub because "Does God really care how we are baptized? It's what's in our hearts that count." We can come to church dressed in beach clothes and flip-flops because "Does God care how we are dressed? It's what's in our hearts that count." We erect huge barn-like structures devoid of ornamentation and symbols as our place of worship, not even calling it a Church but calling it a facility. And why not? "Does God care where we worship? He's everywhere- what's so special about a building?"

So Christianity leaves the realm of reality and becomes a mind game. The physical is sneered at as idolatrous and our whole Christian life is to take place inside our skulls because "God knows our hearts."

So yep, to us it does matter how many nails were used. I wouldn't say it's a problem of the top rank, but it does matter because to us, everything matters. And I am very glad for it.

Love, Xenia

 

[MattMMMan17]

I'm a triclavianist?! I can't believe my mother never told me. . .

 

[Moros]

Alright, a safe assumption is that Triclavianism is a Roman Catholic innovation.

Just another thing to add to the list of differences between RC and EO!

 

[Suzannah]

There is something about this niggling in my brain WRT the Shroud of Turin....I'll see if I can find it...brb.

 

[Suzannah]

Here it is:

The left foot imprint is less clear and it is also noticeable that the left calf imprint is unclear. This supports the opinion that the left leg had been rotated and crossed over the right instep in such a way that an incomplete foot print was formed. In the center of the right foot imprint, a definite punctate defect can be noted. This puncture is consistent with an object having penetrated the structures of the feet, and from the position of the feet the conclusion would be reasonable that the same object penetrated both feet after the left foot had been placed over the right."

From: http://shroud.com/bucklin.htm
An Autotopsy on the Man of the Shroud by: by
Robert Bucklin, M.D., J.D.
Las Vegas, Nevada

 

[MattMMMan17]

Alright, a safe assumption is that Triclavianism is a Roman Catholic innovation.

Just another thing to add to the list of differences between RC and EO!

I'd have to disagree, especially given Suzannah's information regarding the evidence found on the shroud of turin. It seems that the 4 nail belief would be an Orthodox innovation.

It may be another difference between the two Faiths, but they both hold to the fact that Jesus WAS crucified for our sake. As long as we keep that in mind, we'll be better off for it.

 

[katherine2001]

But does the Orthodox accept the Shroud of Turin as being the actual burial shroud of Christ? Unless the Church as a whole accepts it as such (not just individual members of the Church) then what the shroud shows doesn't really matter, does it?