Tribulation physics

[Tiberius]

Ah, so it appears that a bath was about 22 or 23 liters, supporting the 44,000 liter total volume of the vessel described in the Bible.

Given the height of the vessel is given as 5 cubits, that gives a volume of 205021 liters. So it would have been filled just over a fifth of the way up.

 

[Jamin4422]

That works out to be about 4.6 inches, or 11.8 centimeters.

Now, considering that we are dealing with a circular tank that is 30 cubits across (which is five and a quarter meters or more than seventeen feet), I find it impossible to believe that the people back then had any kind of material which could withstand that kind of pressure (2000 baths as stated in 1 Kings 7:23-26, or 3000 baths as stated in 2 Chronicles 4:5)

4.6 inches of iron can take a lot of pressure. There would have been some brass mixed in to keep it from rusting. The NIV Bible has all the conversions in the footnotes.

However, it does correspond with the Biblical claim that the width of the vessel was about a hands breadth.

All the math works out just fine. Even using the NIV with their conversions.

 

[Tiberius]

Were the people back then able to make iron in such sizes?

 

[mzungu]

4.6 inches of iron can take a lot of pressure. There would have been some brass mixed in to keep it from rusting. The NIV Bible has all the conversions in the footnotes.

All the math works out just fine. Even using the NIV with their conversions.

There is no way they could have cast an iron structure of that size without it cracking! They simply did not have the technology. Besides how does this relate to the Bible's erroneous value of Pi

The fact of the matter is that the Bible is wrong about the value of Pi.

 

[dad]

Were the people back then able to make iron in such sizes?

You kidding? They could do that in Adam's day probably.

 

[dad]

There is no way they could have cast an iron structure of that size without it cracking! They simply did not have the technology. Besides how does this relate to the Bible's erroneous value of Pi

The fact of the matter is that the Bible is wrong about the value of Pi.

No. The area was holy...spiritual. Your normal physical math is down the drain.

 

[dad]

ttributed it to Daniel. Sure never happened before.

So you believe in Daniel, and also some impostor that wrote a book pretending to be him??

Because they lacked certain information, not because making predictions is impossible in itself.

Yes it is impossible to make the kind that the bible made...like Daniel and the exact days till Christ.

Is that what you're claiming? That you can't ever make any predictions, only that God can make them?

You can't. We can. Science is too weak and small and limited.

Because it's unscientific.

You are in no position to preach science if you notice.

Yeah, I have some questions. Why do you still shift the goalposts? And why do you attribute so much credibility to the bible?

God deserves credence.

It's not. You posted Daniel, I told you why it doesn't prove God. Try harder.

Ut does. Absolutely, No possible way the exact day could be predicted centuries in advance of the Messiah.

It would be a good start for me to admit defeat because you can't write a single post without resorting to half a dozen fallacies?

No. Admit defeat because you must.

I am talking about predictions. Not strictly scientific predictions but predictions in general. Are they impossible by their very nature, or are they possible until God changes the rules of nature?

By the nature of what was predicted in the bible, it is impossible to the 11th power, multiplied by infinity.

 

[The Engineer]

So you believe in Daniel, and also some impostor that wrote a book pretending to be him??

I'm saying that Daniel might have existed. I'm also saying that an imposter might have written the Book of Daniel and attributed it to him.

Yes it is impossible to make the kind that the bible made...like Daniel and the exact days till Christ.

Daniel was probably written by an imposter, and important days in Jesus' life might have been retroactively changed.

I agree with you that the kind of predictions made in the bible would be impossible, but apparently, they aren't really predictions.

You dodged the question. It wasn't about whether predictions like the ones made in the bible are impossible, it was about whether predictions in general are impossible.

You can't. We can. Science is too weak and small and limited.

So you say scientists can't make predictions at all? How come they successfully predicted the properties of elements before they were found if they can't make predictions? How come they successfully predicted that E. Coli bacteria undergo mutations? How come they get results at all if they can't make predictions?

How come scientists make predictons when they can't make predictions, as you claim?

You are in no position to preach science if you notice.

I don't preach science, I explain it to you.

God deserves credence.

This isn't about God, it's about the bible. Why do you think the bible is the ultimate source of wisdom?

Ut does. Absolutely, No possible way the exact day could be predicted centuries in advance of the Messiah.

The exact day was predicted, Jesus died on another day but people pretended he died on the day that Daniel predicted, making this a classical case of a self-fulfilling prophecy.

No. Admit defeat because you must.

I must admit defeat? How's that?

By the nature of what was predicted in the bible, it is impossible to the 11th power, multiplied by infinity.

Are you even listening?

I'm not talking about scientific predictions, or predictions into the far future.

Is it possible for human beings to make predictions, at all?

 

[Tiberius]

You kidding? They could do that in Adam's day probably.

Ah. Proof by guessing.

Such a solid technique. Guess that what you want to believe is actually the truth, and you'll never be wrong!

 

[dad]

I'm saying that Daniel might have existed. I'm also saying that an imposter might have written the Book of Daniel and attributed it to him.

Let me explain why that is impossible. In any possible dating for the book of Daniel, we still are centuries before Christ. One cannot know when He would come. Yet the exact, precise day was prophesied in Daniel. That day starts at a known event, and is measured right till the day Christ entered Jerusalem on a donkey. Unless you want to put the date AD for Daniel, it is a done deal. Absolute proof...regardless of date!!! God is a clever guy, who woulda thunk of all that?

I agree with you that the kind of predictions made in the bible would be impossible, but apparently, they aren't really predictions.

There are literally hundreds. Every aspect of the coming of Christ and return was laid out. Kingdoms and their order and even details of their kings. The evidence is completely overwhelming and irrefutable.

You dodged the question. It wasn't about whether predictions like the ones made in the bible are impossible, it was about whether predictions in general are impossible.

If I drop a cup over my foot, I can predict it will hit my foot, and even how long it will take to do it. So if you mean 'predictions' that are mere observations of how things work now with our laws, of course we can do that!

If you mean real clear glimpses into the future that are genuine, no, I do not believe that man has that power.

This isn't about God, it's about the bible. Why do you think the bible is the ultimate source of wisdom?

You can't separate them. If not the God of Abraham...then WHAT 'god'??

The exact day was predicted, Jesus died on another day but people pretended he died on the day that Daniel predicted, making this a classical case of a self-fulfilling prophecy.

Childish conspiracy theory and last Thursdayism.

I must admit defeat? How's that?

Well, go on then, till it is obvious to you.

 

[dad]

Ah. Proof by guessing.

Such a solid technique. Guess that what you want to believe is actually the truth, and you'll never be wrong!

You underestimate you opponent. That gets you pwned quite often. You see I do not guess. I know by the bible that metal working was in Cain's day.

 

[The Engineer]

Let me explain why that is impossible. In any possible dating for the book of Daniel, we still are centuries before Christ. One cannot know when He would come. Yet the exact, precise day was prophesied in Daniel. That day starts at a known event, and is measured right till the day Christ entered Jerusalem on a donkey. Unless you want to put the date AD for Daniel, it is a done deal. Absolute proof...regardless of date!!! God is a clever guy, who woulda thunk of all that?

Are you even listening to me?!

Who says that Jesus did really die on the day given in Daniel? He could very well have died on any day, that wouldn't prevent his followers from ripping the ostensible date of his death straight out of Daniel!

Do you know what a self-fulfilling prophecy is?

There are literally hundreds. Every aspect of the coming of Christ and return was laid out. Kingdoms and their order and even details of their kings. The evidence is completely overwhelming and irrefutable.

Then why do you still post Daniel, if there are so many predictions?

If I drop a cup over my foot, I can predict it will hit my foot, and even how long it will take to do it. So if you mean 'predictions' that are mere observations of how things work now with our laws, of course we can do that!

So making predictions is absolutely possible? Good.

If you mean real clear glimpses into the future that are genuine, no, I do not believe that man has that power.

Why?

You can't separate them. If not the God of Abraham...then WHAT 'god'??

Answer my question. What makes you think the bible is the ultimate source of wisdom?

Childish conspiracy theory and last Thursdayism.

That's not last thursdayism at all. It's a conspiracy theory, sure, but still more plausible then Daniel having successfully predicted the exact date of Jesus' death.

In fact, you don't even have to go so far as to talk about conspiracies. Jesus probably never lived in the first place. He might have been a fictional person, and the date of his death was intentionally given as the date which Daniel predicted.

Welcome to Enlightenment! – Religion: the Tragedy of Mankind. Articles by Kenneth Humphreys

Well, go on then, till it is obvious to you.

Then we'll probably sit here until the tribulation.

Oh, wait, that's never gonna happen.

 

[dad]

Are you even listening to me?!

Who says that Jesus did really die on the day given in Daniel? He could very well have died on any day, that wouldn't prevent his followers from ripping the ostensible date of his death straight out of Daniel!

Who says you were born on your birthday? Who says the ides of March are on a certain day? Get a grip.

Do you know what a self-fulfilling prophecy is?

Do you know what nutball conspiracy theories with no basis whatsoever are?

Then why do you still post Daniel, if there are so many predictions?

Cause I feel like it, and it is absolute proof.

Why?

Why would man be able to see the future?

Answer my question. What makes you think the bible is the ultimate source of wisdom?

Doesn't get more ultimate than that.

That's not last thursdayism at all. It's a conspiracy theory, sure, but still more plausible then Daniel having successfully predicted the exact date of Jesus' death.

So now you admit engaging is a conspiracy theory. OK.

In fact, you don't even have to go so far as to talk about conspiracies. Jesus probably never lived in the first place. He might have been a fictional person, and the date of his death was intentionally given as the date which Daniel predicted.

Neither did the apostles and Peter or Pilate, or Mary and Joeseph, or the ancient temple...we get it.

Then we'll probably sit here until the tribulation.

Oh, wait, that's never gonna happen.

Proof?

 

[Tiberius]

You underestimate you opponent. That gets you pwned quite often. You see I do not guess. I know by the bible that metal working was in Cain's day.

You've never pwned me. You may think you have, but it's no different to a kid yelling at his parents that he hates them and then thinking he's won the argument.

And I see that, once again, you are blindly accepting an old book as true rather than seeing what reality indicates.

 

[dad]

You've never pwned me. You may think you have, but it's no different to a kid yelling at his parents that he hates them and then thinking he's won the argument.

And I see that, once again, you are blindly accepting an old book as true rather than seeing what reality indicates.

Call it whatever you like. The fact is metal working is spoken of in the record of man, right from fresh out of the garden.

 

[Tiberius]

Please, show me the passage in the Bible that says there was sufficient knowledge of iron working that would enable them to build such a vessel in the GoE.

 

[dad]

Please, show me the passage in the Bible that says there was sufficient knowledge of iron working that would enable them to build such a vessel in the GoE.

I said fresh out of it.




Ge 4:22 -And Zillah, she also bare Tubalcain, an instructer of every artificer in brass and iron: and the sister of Tubalcain was Naamah.

 

[Jamin4422]

Are you even listening to me?!

Who says that Jesus did really die on the day given in Daniel?

I do, I ran the math twice on that. Once on my own and the second time when I was at the Bible college. I am willing to accept that the 1000 year reign of Christ is all symbolic. But there is still going to be a transition in around 20 years as we go from this age that we are currently in, to the next age.

 

[mzungu]

Call it whatever you like. The fact is metal working is spoken of in the record of man, right from fresh out of the garden.

In what language Oh sorry I forgot it was in English!

 

[dad]

In what language Oh sorry I forgot it was in English!

Actually Genesis was not written in English.