Tribulation physics

[Tiberius]

Long as we see there is no support for old Egypt dates who cares what else you say?

I know you don't, and that's okay, because the feeling is mutual. But a lack of support for old Egypt dates isn't the same thing as support for your position.

No. You can no more prove old Egypt dates than the fairies. Nothing you say matters anymore.

No. You can no more prove a different state past than the fairies. Nothing you say matters anymore.

The bible matters. Ask around.

Fully 66% of the world disagrees with you.

 

[Tiberius]

Billions actually. That is more correct. You see He is alive and well.

Billions of people who felt something and attributed it to Jesus, you mean...

The 500 that saw Him risen and all the others don't add up to four though either. You evos are terrible at math.

Shame none of them wrote anything about it...

Independent of what? Reality? History? Carefully preserved sacred records? Have you a source that proves He did not?

Is this really your most powerful argument? "You can't prove that he didn't, therefore he did!" It's a pretty weak argument, dad.

 

[Tiberius]

And He fulfilled many many prophesies.

Correction: You are TOLD he fulfilled many many prophesies.

 

[The Engineer]

In all fairness, there probably was such a historical person who actually existed -- we only have five (don't forget Paul) sources regarding the things he may have actually said or did -- and they're not historically reliable because even the most cursory reading shows they were never meant to be.

If there was a historical person named Jesus that never made miracles and wasn't Gods son, then this person wasn't the biblical Jesus. I'm quite sure you already know this, but I doubt dad does.

Billions actually. That is more correct. You see He is alive and well. The 500 that saw Him risen and all the others don't add up to four though either. You evos are terrible at math.

I was wrong. There were five written testimonies. Just because one testimony told you that a hundred people saw him doesn't make it so. At the end of the day, we are still left with only five accounts of his existence, and for a person with his importance, not only now, but also during his lifetime, that's not exactly much.

I don't see him alive and well, sorry.

Who is "we" speak for yourself.

We as in all of humanity.

Independent of what? Reality? History? Carefully preserved sacred records?

Independent of the bible. Come on, Jesus was one of the most important persons in his region, how come we don't even have his court records?

Have you a source that proves He did not?

I have an alarming absence of evidence for his existence.

Says who?

I do, and all other atheists do it, too.

How do you know it is 2012?

Calendars agree with it.

How do you know you were not breast fed?

I don't. However, this claim is not as extraordinary as the claim that the son of God lived two thousand years ago. If my mother tells me I was breast fed, that suffices as evidence. However, for the claim that the son of God lived, I demand a bit more than five sources.

 

[TLK Valentine]

Your source mentions zero support for the silly dates they toss out. None. Show us the basis.

Sounds like someone doesn't bother to read a link. Are you even trying anymore?

 

[TLK Valentine]

So Paul and all the people that saw Jesus and knew Him were liars according to you. As if you had any possible clue.

Nah, just Paul -- and it's not really a lie if he was speaking in metaphor.

The others were lied about, but not liars themselves.

Really, dad -- this is remedial Bible study... why are you having such difficulty?

 

[TLK Valentine]

Is this really your most powerful argument? "You can't prove that he didn't, therefore he did!" It's a pretty weak argument, dad.

It's his only argument.

 

[TLK Valentine]

I am saying you have no clue either way and cannot support anything related to dates.

Seems we're in the same boat -- the difference is, I have people who've actually worked on this on my side.

That depends if we are talking about math that has some relation to reality.

And do you? I don't recall Ussher taking the Split into considerations in any of his calculations -- can you show that he did?

 

[TLK Valentine]

And He fulfilled many many prophesies.

Jewish prophecies written centuries ago by Jewish authors and later used (rather hamhandedly in some cases, IMHO) by writers seeking to incorporate Jesus into their Jewish theology.

One actually. God. The tens of thousands that were fed and multitudes that were healed and had demons cast out and etc did not write history. God promised that He would bring it all back clearly to the ones He charged with making the record.

A record so nice, He made it twice. Or was that the Bible authors mining the Old Testament looking for tricks they can build on?

feed the multitudes, heal the sick, cast out demons, even raise the dead... by the time Jesus gets around to doing it, it's already old hat to the Jews.

Of course, since you're unfamiliar with the Bible, you might not realize this -- kind of like me talking about someone rafting down the Mississippi Rive and not recognizing the Huckleberry Finn reference.

That record told of many things that already happened.

So much for prophecy.

That record revealed the world we live in today long before we got here.

Did it say anything useful, or were they usefully vague?

You may not wipe out Mary and all the disciples and events and characters recorded in the sacred record just because you want them to be in your living room saying boo or you will chose not to believe they lived.

Actually, we may do whatever we wish -- you have no authority to tell us anything.

False. They are. They were meant to be.

A pity you can't support that.

I, on the other hand, who knows a little more about Jewish history and religion than you do, can show how the gospel writers played fast and loose with the historical facts in order to fit the Jesus story into their theology.

Since Mark's gospel was written first, we can start with that one -- you have read Mark, haven't you?

 

[mzungu]

My sister took a couple who were renting one of her cave houses on the Island of Santorini to the ancient city of Akrotiri which was discovered under volcanic ashes. When she told them that the ruins are dated to be from approximately 3,500 BC the couple quickly replied with: "That's impossible because Adam and Eve were the only people on earth at the time". The funny thing is that next to them a group of tourists from the Far East and Europe suddenly stopped talking as they had heard what the couple said and silence fell until the guide who was escorting the group who herself was an archaeologist said: "Don't worry they are Americans"; everyone laughed and continued to enjoy the tour.

I know that this was an unfair remark to make about the Americans but it just goes to show the damage creationism has done to the image of a country that has offered much in the field of science. It is not uncommon to call one an American in a derogatory way and in the sense that it means an "idiot"!

 

[mzungu]

 

[Tiberius]

And do you? I don't recall Ussher taking the Split into considerations in any of his calculations -- can you show that he did?

Oh, but can you prove that he DIDN'T? No? Then I guess that proves dad right after all!!! Bwahahahahaha!!!!!1!111!!!!!

 

[dad]

My sister took a couple who were renting one of her cave houses on the Island of Santorini to the ancient city of Akrotiri which was discovered under volcanic ashes. When she told them that the ruins are dated to be from approximately 3,500 BC the couple quickly replied with: "That's impossible because Adam and Eve were the only people on earth at the time". The funny thing is that next to them a group of tourists from the Far East and Europe suddenly stopped talking as they had heard what the couple said and silence fell until the guide who was escorting the group who herself was an archaeologist said: "Don't worry they are Americans"; everyone laughed and continued to enjoy the tour.

I know that this was an unfair remark to make about the Americans but it just goes to show the damage creationism has done to the image of a country that has offered much in the field of science. It is not uncommon to call one an American in a derogatory way and in the sense that it means an "idiot"!

Strawman. This thread and discussion has nothing to do with Americans, or how clever godless Europeans.

 

[Jamin4422]

Ussher dates the Flood at 2349-2348 BC and the Exodus at 1491 BC -- neither of which square away with Egyptian history.

It all squares off with Egyptian history. They even know the city the Hebrews lived in when they were in Egypt.

Acts 7:22 And Moses was learned in all the wisdom of the Egyptians, and was mighty in words and in deeds.

 

[TLK Valentine]

It all squares off with Egyptian history. They even know the city the Hebrews lived in when they were in Egypt.

Acts 7:22 And Moses was learned in all the wisdom of the Egyptians, and was mighty in words and in deeds.

I said Egyptian history...

 

[Jamin4422]

I said Egyptian history...

Do you even know anything about Egyptian history? Have you studied it at all?

 

[TLK Valentine]

Do you even know anything about Egyptian history? Have you studied it at all?

A little -- funny how there's no mention of a global flood, ten plagues, or the exodus.

Now, how about you impress us with your study of Egypt?

 

[mzungu]

A little -- funny how there's no mention of a global flood, ten plagues, or the exodus.

Now, how about you impress us with your study of Egypt?

 

[dad]

A little -- funny how there's no mention of a global flood, ten plagues, or the exodus.

Now, how about you impress us with your study of Egypt?

The exodus was something I would suspect that might be stricken from the records. You know politicians. As for the flood, remember that they used little pictures to communicate and the earliest ones could have changed meanings over time.


Looking at this early pic, I almost had to give my head a shake...looked almost like 8 people in a boat!

http://www.flickr.com/photos/3900098/5424491723/

 

[CabVet]

The exodus was something I would suspect that might be stricken from the records. You know politicians. As for the flood, remember that they used little pictures to communicate and the earliest ones could have changed meanings over time.

Looking at this early pic, I almost had to give my head a shake...looked almost like 8 people in a boat!

Dad's magic explanation for everything: if something does not agree with his view of the world it is because it changed over time.