Trappists?

[Gregory Thompson]

I saw this in the Orthodox forum, but had some questions about it, I pasted it in google and some Catholic religious order popped up and it s related to a sacrament of some kind. I'm just curious what you think of it, all the scripture that came to remembrance in regards to it was on the negative side, would like to see other people's perspectives as well.
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"I answer Your call. Here I am" I desire nothing, from now , but Your holy Will, and Your divine Heart will be the altar of my immolation. Yes, it is in the furnace of love that I desire to see consumed all that remains of myself, in order that I may no longer be myself but You, O Jesus. Continue in this heart, which belongs to You, the tortures of Calvary, for as long as this new victim is not immolated, Your Sacrifice will be unfinished. Your work of redemption incomplete."

 

[Light of the East]

As I said when I posted it .... it seems off kilter to me.

I am not opposed to solitude and seeking God through withdrawing from the confusion and craziness of this world. But that which has to be finished in me is becoming like Christ, not anything regarding His work on Calvary for the redemption of mankind and all creation.

Anyhow, I'll be interested in seeing the answers you get. I shall stay tuned.

 

[1stcenturylady]

I saw this in the Orthodox forum, but had some questions about it, I pasted it in google and some Catholic religious order popped up and it s related to a sacrament of some kind. I'm just curious what you think of it, all the scripture that came to remembrance in regards to it was on the negative side, would like to see other people's perspectives as well.
.
"I answer Your call. Here I am" I desire nothing, from now , but Your holy Will, and Your divine Heart will be the altar of my immolation. Yes, it is in the furnace of love that I desire to see consumed all that remains of myself, in order that I may no longer be myself but You, O Jesus. Continue in this heart, which belongs to You, the tortures of Calvary, for as long as this new victim is not immolated, Your Sacrifice will be unfinished. Your work of redemption incomplete."

I'm just a student of God's Word, and what is being said is scriptural. What about it troubles you?

 

[Light of the East]

I'm just a student of God's Word, and what is being said is scriptural. What about it troubles you?

That the work of redemption is seen incomplete except by the penal suffering of the sinner rather than the union of the sinner to Christ in increasing holiness and change. The Roman idea of tormenting a soul with physical punishments for some legal purpose seems to be what is shining through here. That is quite different from the Eastern idea of union through repentance, fasting, Sacraments, and quiet meditation.

If you are a student of Scripture, perhaps you could show me such suffering as "completing the work of redemption." I find in Romans 5:18 that St. Paul indicated that the redemptive work of the Cross is done.

 

[Gregory Thompson]

I'm just a student of God's Word, and what is being said is scriptural. What about it troubles you?

The pattern of what is being requested reminds me of something else I read in scripture, but I wanted to see what other people thought of it.

 

[1stcenturylady]

The pattern of what is being requested reminds me of something else I read in scripture, but I wanted to see what other people thought of it.

I'll check back tomorrow and see what develops. Good night.

 

[Gregory Thompson]

That the work of redemption is seen incomplete except by the penal suffering of the sinner rather than the union of the sinner to Christ in increasing holiness and change. The Roman idea of tormenting a soul with physical punishments for some legal purpose seems to be what is shining through here. That is quite different from the Eastern idea of union through repentance, fasting, Sacraments, and quiet meditation.

If you are a student of Scripture, perhaps you could show me such suffering as "completing the work of redemption." I find in Romans 5:18 that St. Paul indicated that the redemptive work of the Cross is done.

I got Colossians 1:24 for that element of the prayer. One of the older translations may lend to why the prayer is prayed that way.

 

[Gregory Thompson]

The part I was concerned about doesn't look that way today. must've just been the frame of mind I was in. The concept of God being the consuming lake of fire tends to inspire thoughts to bubble to the top that aren't quite right at first as all purification goes.

 

[EastCoastRemnant]

The Church's doctrines concerning mans works to complete Christ's work and the power to re-crucify Christ afresh each Mass are two of their most fundamental errors that show them to be against Christ's teachings.

 

[Gregory Thompson]

The Church's doctrines concerning mans works to complete Christ's work and the power to re-crucify Christ afresh each Mass are two of their most fundamental errors that show them to be against Christ's teachings.

I do my best to find what I do agree with and focus on that. Since the church is divided, we have a lot to learn from one another.

 

[EastCoastRemnant]

I do my best to find what I do agree with and focus on that. Since the church is divided, we have a lot to learn from one another.

Can two walk together unless they be agreed?

 

[Gregory Thompson]

Can two walk together unless they be agreed?

I think the ear and the eye of the same body may "see" things differently, the body still continues walking even if those things are different.

 

[EastCoastRemnant]

I think the ear and the eye of the same body may "see" things differently, the body still continues walking even if those things are different.

Small issues, I agree... but not the character of Christ.

 

[Gregory Thompson]

Small issues, I agree... but not the character of Christ.

I recall when Paul prayed that one congregation would know how high and how wide the love of God is. People are brought to Christ by the Father, people are lead into all truth by the Holy Spirit. Since the character of God is deep, it is understood through intimate contact with God, this is why interpretations vary so much.

 

[Hillsage]

That the work of redemption is seen incomplete except by the penal suffering of the sinner rather than the union of the sinner to Christ in increasing holiness and change. The Roman idea of tormenting a soul with physical punishments for some legal purpose seems to be what is shining through here. That is quite different from the Eastern idea of union through repentance, fasting, Sacraments, and quiet meditation.

If you are a student of Scripture, perhaps you could show me such suffering as "completing the work of redemption." I find in Romans 5:18 that St. Paul indicated that the redemptive work of the Cross is done.

Here's just my take. The word I find missing in your quote of Rom 5:18 is redemption. And the important word to me is "Justification" (also in verse 15).

ROM 5:18 Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life.

We have three salvations to undergo as triune human beings (my belief). Those salvations are for that of the spirit, the soul and the body. The three salvations are Justification for the spirit, Sanctification for the soul, Glorification for the body.

The Romans 5 verse you shared is only dealing with justification from the 'DEATH of Jesus on the cross. But there is also a verse saying we must "work out your salvation with fear and trembling". And that verse is written to CHRISTIANS. But, AFTER we've been spirit saved, and that is the progressive salvation of our soul.

ROM 8:23 And not only they, but ourselves also, which have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting for the adoption, to wit, the redemption of our body.

The degree to which we work out the sanctification of our soul is what determines the degree of glory our redeemed body will receive after judgment.

Jesus didn't die for our 'SANCTIFICATION' He lived to obtain it. And He obtained it for Himself first. By being tempted in every way like us, but never sinning. This is what made Him BE the perfect sacrifice. He wasn't born perfect, he was born sinless and became perfect by what he suffered growing to maturity.

HEB 2:10 For it was fitting that he, for whom and by whom all things exist, in bringing many sons to glory, should make the pioneer of their salvation perfect through suffering.

His 'life' achievement has now become our 'life goal'.
1PE 4:1 Since therefore Christ suffered in the flesh, arm yourselves with the same thought, for whoever has suffered in the flesh has ceased from sin,

 

[Hillsage]

Can two walk together unless they be agreed?

Agreed, regarding WHAT, is the question.

If I agree you are my spiritual brother because we're both born again, you certainly don't have to be my 'soulish' twin brother. And it is the soulish 'doctrines of man' that have become...the spiritual bane of 'churchianity'.

 

[EastCoastRemnant]

Agreed, regarding WHAT, is the question.

If I agree you are my spiritual brother because we're both born again, you certainly don't have to be my 'soulish' twin brother. And it is the soulish 'doctrines of man' that have become...the spiritual bane of 'churchianity'.

I agree with the doctrines of man being the divisive element. I cannot be yoked with JW or Mormons because they have fundamental differences from what the Bible teaches... I feel the same way with some other "Christian" faiths.

 

[Light of the East]

"Hillsage, Here's just my take. The word I find missing in your quote of Rom 5:18 is redemption. And the important word to me is "Justification" (also in verse 15).

ROM 5:18 Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life.

We have three salvations to undergo as triune human beings (my belief). Those salvations are for that of the spirit, the soul and the body. The three salvations are Justification for the spirit, Sanctification for the soul, Glorification for the body.

Well, that is an interesting thought. I wonder, though, if this division of the human being into three parts is really an orthodox anthropology according to the Christian understanding of man?

The Romans 5 verse you shared is only dealing with justification from the 'DEATH of Jesus on the cross. But there is also a verse saying we must "work out your salvation with fear and trembling". And that verse is written to CHRISTIANS. But, AFTER we've been spirit saved, and that is the progressive salvation of our soul.

ROM 8:23 And not only they, but ourselves also, which have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting for the adoption, to wit, the redemption of our body.

The degree to which we work out the sanctification of our soul is what determines the degree of glory our redeemed body will receive after judgment.

I think I would agree with this. Christ spoke about the different levels of reward that would be in the next life.

My point in quoting Romans 5: 18 was that the death of Christ has returned all of mankind to God. Jesus entered the "strong man's house," bound him up, and redeemed what the usurper stole in the Garden. All mankind is now redeemed to God. And yes, we are all at different stages of working out this free salvation. Some won't even get started in this life. Some are so far advanced they work wonders (I am thinking of the monks of Mt. Athos in particular).

Romans 5:19 clarifies that God's salvation is a one-time act which affects all of us in a positive way.

 

[Light of the East]

I agree with the doctrines of man being the divisive element. I cannot be yoked with JW or Mormons because they have fundamental differences from what the Bible teaches... I feel the same way with some other "Christian" faiths.

Actually, sir, having read your posts and interacted with you, I would say that you feel that way about everyone but fellow SDA's.

 

[Light of the East]

I do my best to find what I do agree with and focus on that. Since the church is divided, we have a lot to learn from one another.

No.

We have to learn from the very first Christians, those who were closest to Christ and the Apostles, and in some cases, such as Polycarp, learned directly from one of the Apostles. There are far too many opinions floating around now that are merely the opinions of someone, yet are being treated as golden nuggets of divine truth. To listen to them over and above the first fathers of the Church is to put myself in danger of being swayed by smooth-talking arguments and persuasive doctrines of men, possibly to the danger of my soul.