Traditions teach a cruel God

[interpreter]

What are people ' saved ' from and how do people reach the status of salvation ?

With good works we are saved from hell. Good works begin with accepting Jesus Christ.

 

[msmorality]

Salvation is not just one time.. I believe... but also a life of proof.

Are you saying salvation is a high maintenance ?

 

[msmorality]

saved from "death" by resurrection to eternal life.

How do you define death ?

 

[msmorality]

With good works we are saved from hell. Good works begin with accepting Jesus Christ.

How do you define ' hell ' and are you saying our works save us, or Jesus works ?

 

[visionary]

Are you saying salvation is a high maintenance ?

Nope.. salvation is a way of life... new life in Him.

 

[Timothew]

How do you define death ?

the usual way, not alive.

 

[msmorality]

the usual way, not alive.

Have you considered that death can be defined in other terms other than physical death ?

What I mean is, one way I looked at the Genesis account is the ' death of love ' . Death of love for God came first, and lack of love for neighbor followed. The world began a spiral of loving self above all else.. The result, alienation from God's perfect law . Love.

 

[msmorality]

Nope.. salvation is a way of life... new life in Him.

Thank you, that is a great perspective or way to look at salvation. So many times salvation is looked upon as just a way to escape judgement . Do you have anything else you would like to expand or add ?

 

[visionary]

Thank you, that is a great perspective or way to look at salvation. So many times salvation is looked upon as just a way to escape judgement . Do you have anything else you would like to expand or add ?

I have studied scripture with serious prayer for years to learn the way God thinks. So if I can help with any questions you have.. maybe I have had them too.. and will be able to show you what God has revealed to me.

Isaiah 29:11 And the vision of all is become unto you as the words of a book that is sealed,

Now that resonnated with me.I did a lot of praying back in the day when most of the Bible was like a closed book. for while searching the scripture through thoughtful prayer and praying without ceasing that everything the Lord wants to plant in my heart.. and the way He does it is lift the words into vision and up off the page resonating with His small voice saying it with clarity and the meaning come to my mind that I can take to heart.. this is how God sees and understands these words and wants me to see it this way.. The seal of God.. the true meaning to these Words of God have the seal removed so that I may have the wisdom of understanding that is God's. ... They shine in His Glory...

 

[msmorality]

I have studied scripture with serious prayer for years to learn the way God thinks. So if I can help with any questions you have.. maybe I have had them too.. and will be able to show you what God has revealed to me.

Isaiah 29:11 And the vision of all is become unto you as the words of a book that is sealed,

Now that resonnated with me.I did a lot of praying back in the day when most of the Bible was like a closed book. for while searching the scripture through thoughtful prayer and praying without ceasing that everything the Lord wants to plant in my heart.. and the way He does it is lift the words into vision and up off the page resonating with His small voice saying it with clarity and the meaning come to my mind that I can take to heart.. this is how God sees and understands these words and wants me to see it this way.. The seal of God.. the true meaning to these Words of God have the seal removed so that I may have the wisdom of understanding that is God's. ... They shine in His Glory...

How do you view ' punishment' from God. Does it last for infinity, what activity warrants punishment ? I think this might be one of the most important questions that any human should have, and within the scope of biblical interpretations, you will find many different views. How in your opinion can any human be certain their view is correct ? Thank you in advance for your perspectives..

 

[interpreter]

How do you define ' hell ' and are you saying our works save us, or Jesus works ?

Our good works. We are each to work out our own salvation with fear and trembling. (Philippians 2:12)

 

[Timothew]

Have you considered that death can be defined in other terms other than physical death ?

What I mean is, one way I looked at the Genesis account is the ' death of love ' . Death of love for God came first, and lack of love for neighbor followed. The world began a spiral of loving self above all else.. The result, alienation from God's perfect law . Love.

I suppose death could be defined in other ways except that when death is used in the same sentence as "life" you have to take it in context.
As in "For the wages of sin is death but the gift of God is eternal life".
There is really no reason to look for other definitions of death, when the usage here is so close to and contrasting with life. The only reason someone would start to look for other definitions of death in this passage is if they had a preconceived theology that they needed to defend. But the practice of defining verses to fit your theology is called eisegesis, or scripture-twisting.

 

[visionary]

I suppose death could be defined in other ways except that when death is used in the same sentence as "life" you have to take it in context.
As in "For the wages of sin is death but the gift of God is eternal life".
There is really no reason to look for other definitions of death, when the usage here is so close to and constrasting with life. The only reason someone would start to look for other definitions of death in this passage is if they had a preconceived theology that they needed to defend. But the practice of defining verses to fit your theology is called eisegesis, or scripture-twisting.

and the only life after death comes in the resurrection.

 

[msmorality]

I suppose death could be defined in other ways except that when death is used in the same sentence as "life" you have to take it in context.
As in "For the wages of sin is death but the gift of God is eternal life".
There is really no reason to look for other definitions of death, when the usage here is so close to and constrasting with life. The only reason someone would start to look for other definitions of death in this passage is if they had a preconceived theology that they needed to defend. But the practice of defining verses to fit your theology is called eisegesis, or scripture-twisting.

Many verses allude to many types death. For instance, this verse

"We know that we have passed from death to life, because we love one another. The person who does not love remains spiritually dead. " 1 John 3:14

In any relationship, once love dies, death of the relationship ends any ' life'. In many passages poetic expressions indicate that ' death' has more than one meaning..

I am not disagreeing with your point that the wages of sin brings death. I was just curious if you had ever considered that death of love is a condition that prevents the abundant life . The abundant life is the result of living by the law of Christ. ie. Love.

Depending on your model of choice, scripture can be interpreted in various ways. IMO, no human is infallible. We are all doing the best we can , to understand and live the best we can. Each of us is influenced by the model we think is the most reasonable. ET, IMO, is very unreasonable..

 

[Reine]

Yep.. To take life away, the breath is removed and returns to God.

Thank you, that's what I think too

 

[Reine]

Our good works. We are each to work out our own salvation with fear and trembling. (Philippians 2:12)

Hi I think that our salvation hinges only on the Grace of God. Our faith is the vehicle that transports God's grace, and our faith is dependent on our trust that we have in God. This trust is only viable, because God can be trusted. 1. He loves us beyond measure and proved this throught the sacrifce of Christ.. and 2. God proved his power to defeat death.

All things must move to grow or they die, and IMO that applies to the mental, physical, and emotional, states as well as the spiritual. If who God is, is truely believed, and what God did.. it is trusted... then this trust in who God is and what he has done by his Grace is transported through our faith.

What is it transported to? As and act of our will it is transported to our actions which become alive in deeds that reflect and Truth and Love mirroring the Grace of God. It starts and ends with God continuous Grace ....IMO...

 

[Timothew]

Many verses allude to many types death. For instance, this verse

"We know that we have passed from death to life, because we love one another. The person who does not love remains spiritually dead. " 1 John 3:14

In any relationship, once love dies, death of the relationship ends any ' life'. In many passages poetic expressions indicate that ' death' has more than one meaning..

I am not disagreeing with your point that the wages of sin brings death. I was just curious if you had ever considered that death of love is a condition that prevents the abundant life . The abundant life is the result of living by the law of Christ. ie. Love.

Depending on your model of choice, scripture can be interpreted in various ways. IMO, no human is infallible. We are all doing the best we can , to understand and live the best we can. Each of us is influenced by the model we think is the most reasonable. ET, IMO, is very unreasonable..

Context is important. If someone says "He is not alive, he is dead" you don't have to search around for poetic meanings.
When I watched Star Trek, Doctor McCoy would examine someone who was shot with a phaser and he would say to Kirk, "He's dead, Jim!" I always knew what McCoy meant and Kirk never had to say, "Do you mean that he is no longer alive?"

Anyway, I'm sad today because my dog died last week.

 

[msmorality]

Context is important. If someone says "He is not alive, he is dead" you don't have to search around for poetic meanings.
When I watched Star Trek, Doctor McCoy would examine someone who was shot with a phaser and he would say to Kirk, "He's dead, Jim!" I always knew what McCoy meant and Kirk never had to say, "Do you mean that he is no longer alive?"

Anyway, I'm sad today because my dog died last week.

I'm sorry , My deepest sympathy. What was his name and breed ?

My beagle passed way a couple years ago and I still miss him dearly..was recently watching my home movies and it really brings back some great memories..

Yes, I agree, there are many parts that are to be taken literally about death. However, I tend to also notice that terms like ' abundant life, or' eternal life' indicate a condition that can be achieved here on earth. Does that resonate with you ? Too many times I think many take it as reference to an afterlife, and I don't know that is always the case .

 

[visionary]

Hi I think that our salvation hinges only on the Grace of God. Our faith is the vehicle that transports God's grace, and our faith is dependent on our trust that we have in God. This trust is only viable, because God can be trusted. 1. He loves us beyond measure and proved this throught the sacrifce of Christ.. and 2. God proved his power to defeat death.

All things must move to grow or they die, and IMO that applies to the mental, physical, and emotional, states as well as the spiritual. If who God is, is truely believed, and what God did.. it is trusted... then this trust in who God is and what he has done by his Grace is transported through our faith.

What is it transported to? As and act of our will it is transported to our actions which become alive in deeds that reflect and Truth and Love mirroring the Grace of God. It starts and ends with God continuous Grace ....IMO...

and our faith and trust is revealed in our actions, deeds, and thoughts.. are they in harmony with God?

 

[Reine]

and our faith and trust is revealed in our actions, deeds, and thoughts.. are they in harmony with God?

I think they are when they are brought into action from motivations that are selfless acts of will to benefit others. This is love, that was given to us first by God.