Traditional Orthodox Sub-Section

[Maximus]

I would be happy if they had their own forum. I just don't want them to have a subforum in TAW. It makes us look like a Church of sects.

I agree.

Sorry I didn't catch this post before I made my last one.

I think they should have their own forum.

 

[MariaRegina]

I would be happy if they had their own forum. I just don't want them to have a subforum in TAW. It makes us look like a Church of sects.

I agree there should be an Oriental Orthodox Forum

Then I would like to see an Oriental-Orthodox dialogue subforum perhaps placed within the Oriental forum, where we can place all of our current and past dialogues with the Oriental Orthodox, unless you want them deleted. But they should not remain here in this forum.

Finally there should be a Chapel and Library Orthodox Christian subforum.

 

[Orthodox Andrew]

I understand your perspective, Andreas, but I respectfully disagree.

Is it our purpose to deceive the unknowing by looking like something we aren't, that is, united with the Non-Chalcedonians?

Did the Fathers worry about how things looked when they made the decisions at Nicea I that separated the Orthodox from the Arians?

Did they worry about how things looked at Constantinople when they made the decisions that separated the Orthodox from the so-called "Spirit-fighters?"

Did they worry about appearances when they condemned Nestorianism at Ephesus in 431?

Chalcedon was, like those other three before it, an ecumenical council. The Non-Chalcedonians reject it and the three that followed it: four out of the seven councils.

In so doing, they left the one Holy, Catholic, and Apostolic Church.

Let them have their own forum.

You really have me thinking now. So what do you and everybody want to see exactly? Do we want a subforum for Non-Chalcedonians only? And would that mean they can not debate in TAW? I just want to know exactly want everybody wants?

 

[Photini]

It doesn't really make any difference to me. It would, however, make a difference if there were aggressive Coptic members trying to push doctrine down my throat. This is not happening. There are only a few OO members, and I have always found them friendly, polite, and respectful...and very patient.
I am actually surprised that our Coptic members haven't requested their own forum themselves....of course, why in the world would you do that if there is only one or two other members. I do miss CopticOrthodox...he had a lot of insight to many questions that arose by the occassional wandering Protestant.

I simply don't think this particular MB is the place to be debating our OO members. This is not the place to be at odds with them....I've seen Maximus relay a similar sentiment in regards to the RC/EO relations on this MB.

 

[Orthodox Andrew]

Good feedback, chanter and Maximus.

 

[Maximus]

I agree with you, chanter.

I do take exception to this remark of yours, however:

I really feel for the Coptics that they are attacked so much.

How have the Copts been "attacked?"

Seems to me they and their fellow Non-Chalcedonians have done their share of debating and have received the assistance of some of the more liberal among the Eastern Orthodox here.

 

[Maximus]

Photini: I've seen Maximus relay a similar sentiment in regards to the RC/EO relations on this MB.

You will note that the RCs have their own forum.

If the Non-Chalcedonians had their own forum, we wouldn't have to spend time debating with them or defending our own ecumenical councils and Church Fathers.

 

[Matrona]

some of the more liberal among the Eastern Orthodox here.

There are liberal Orthodox?

I always thought we Orthodox just ran the gamut from conservative to archconservative.

 

[MariaRegina]

I agree with you, chanter.

I do take exception to this remark of yours, however:



How have the Copts been "attacked?"

Seems to me they and their fellow Non-Chalcedonians have done their share of debating and have received the assistance of some of the more liberal among the Eastern Orthodox here.

I dislike seeing the debates that are ongoing between the Copts and the Orthodox. They have been rather strongly worded. These dialogues should be placed in a separate subforum under the Oriental Orthodox forum when it is established.

This is Great Lent and we are totally losing our focus. I have talked with some holy Coptic priests. Maybe you consider them heretical but I consider them saints.

 

[Maximus]

There are liberal Orthodox?

I always thought we Orthodox just ran the gamut from conservative to archconservative.

Yes, there are, sadly, liberal Orthodox.

However, "liberal" is a relative term, and, in this case, I used it in that sense by prefacing it with the qualifier more.

 

[Maximus]

chanter: I have talked with some holy Coptic priests. Maybe you considered them heretical but I consider them saints.

Were the Orthodox councils and Fathers wrong, then?

Allowing oneself to be impressed by persons is a snare into which we are all prone to fall.

Was Gandhi a "saint?"

I've met some pretty nice Mormons and Muslims.

Are they saints?

 

[MariaRegina]

Maximus:

I do believe in the Seven Holy Ecumenical Councils. I professed my belief at my Holy Chrismation.

I think we will all be surprized when we get to Heaven. We have to use the graces that God gives us and be responsible to God, comparing ourselves to Christ alone.

Certainly I do not believe in open Communion; I never have. I am definitely more conservative in this regard.

 

[Maximus]

Maximus:

I do believe in the Seven Holy Ecumenical Councils. I professed my belief at my Holy Chrismation.

I think we will all be surprized when we get to Heaven. We have to use the graces that God gives us and be responsible to God, comparing ourselves to Christ alone.

I am not judging the Coptic priests you mentioned. Their fate, like mine, is in God's hands.

I was going to engage you in a debate on this, but I think I'll let it go.

Suffice it to say that a lot of modern relativism and pluralism has crept into even the Orthodox Church.

 

[MariaRegina]

I am not judging the Coptic priests you mentioned. Their fate, like mine, is in God's hands.

I was going to engage you in a debate on this, but I think I'll let it go.

Suffice it to say that a lot of modern relativism and pluralism has crept into even the Orthodox Church.

Yes, Maximus and this bothers me. I am considered to be quite conservative in this regard.

But I also understand that St. Constantine was baptized by an Arian Bishop and he is considered to be a saint.

St. Ephraim the Syrian and St. Issac the Syrian were Nestorians, weren't they?

There are many holy Coptic monks taught in the tradition of our Desert Fathers. These are our holy saints also. Many have been martyred by the muslims and I honor them as saints. Don't you too?

We don't see into the souls of others. Only God does.

Yes, the Coptics and the Oriental Orthodox should have their own forums where they can work out their salvation for the glory of God.

 

[Michael G]

Yes, chanter, you have it exactly! We must be Orthodox and be willing to explain and defend the ancient apostolic faith, but only God can judge the state of anyone's soul!

 

[Maximus]

Yes, chanter, you have it exactly! We must be Orthodox and be willing to explain and defend the ancient apostolic faith, but only God can judge the state of anyone's soul!

Who's been trying to judge the state of anyone's soul?

BTW, St. Ephraim was a saint of the 4th century and thus predated Nestorius and the Christological controversies of the 5th century.

I am not as familiar with St. Isaac the Syrian.

 

[Reader Nilus]

St Isaac was not Orthodox.
Jeff the Finn

 

[Orthodox Andrew]

Are you saying St. Isaac the Syrian was not Orthodox?

 

[Reader Nilus]

You will note that the RCs have their own forum.

If the Non-Chalcedonians had their own forum, we wouldn't have to spend time debating with them or defending our own ecumenical councils and Church Fathers.

We have not spent time debating until you and tikon started in on them in the last month. Why is beyond me. I agree that you were upset that some dared side with protestants against the RC's in IDD forum, yet are astounded when some of us will defend our brethren the Copts. Are you in communion with the Greek Archdiocese?
Jeff the Finn

 

[Reader Nilus]

Are you saying St. Isaac the Syrian was not Orthodox?

By tikon and maximus's definition he was a heretic. He was a Nestorian Bishop.
Jeff the Finn