Traditional Orthodox Sub-Section

[MariaRegina]

Dear Jeff and Chris:

If you look at the threads that I have selected (and their are other posts in other threads which I did not select because there are too many for one person to search), you will see a pattern. People come here especially from the Greek Church and are wondering why the Coptics are on this board. The Antiochians and the OCA do accept the Coptics, while the Greeks chrismate them first before allowing them to receive Holy Communion. Even still it is one sided. A Coptic priest told us that he cannot give Holy Communion to the Orthodox but the Antiochians will give Communion to the Coptics. The same is true of the OCA. Some OCA bishops will allow intercommunion only if the Coptics are chrismated while all of the Coptic bishops insist on chrismating the Orthodox before allowing the Orthodox to receive Communion. So we really don't have intercommunion (except for the Antiochians - and its' a unilateral decision here).

I really believe that the Coptics have valid communion but I do not like this debate that breaks out every two weeks without fail due to the differences in Orthodox jurisdictions and the individual decisions of bishops.

Please correct me if I am wrong, but I do see this as a unilateral decision of some Orthodox -- not a universal.

Yours in Christ,
Elizabeth

P. S. Please let us honor the Coptics by allowing them their own forum and being respectful in their own forum. We have enough threads to establish a subforum for dialogue between the Orientals and the Orthodox.

 

[Suzannah]

Hiya Chanter:
I saw your note to me in the other thread but didn't want to "debate" there, per Andreas' request so I'm answering here....Truly , I do love you and your posts here Elizabeth but on this matter I have to strongly disagree with you and say what I really think. Please remember that I respect you greatly and value your friendship.

I don't mean to be snide at all when I say this but here is how I really feel: As soon as Patriarch Pavle orders me to debate Coptics then I will most certainly follow marching orders. Instead he said: "If we live as people of God, there will be room for all nations in the Balkans and in the world. If we liken ourselves to Cain who killed his brother Abel, then the entire earth will be too small even for two people. The Lord Jesus Christ teaches us to be always children of God and love one another. We should remember the words of St. Paul: "If it be possible, as much as lies in you, live peaceably with all men."

This forum is just a "virtual" hangout. It is not a church. It's a message board. I think that the EO's who have engaged in all that debate and called people names, should start their own forum. By deciding to start another forum on behalf of the Copts, for them, assumes a position of "moral superiority" and could be construed as such. It smacks of colonial condescension. It seems to me that those who debate and "hold to Traditional Orthodoxy" and are all wound up about each and every difference between the EO and the OO, those are the ones who would be more comfortable in a forum somewhere else. It is not Erwin's problem to solve.

 

[MariaRegina]

Hiya Chanter:
I saw your note to me in the other thread but didn't want to "debate" there, per Andreas' request so I'm answering here....Truly , I do love you and your posts here Elizabeth but on this matter I have to strongly disagree with you and say what I really think. Please remember that I respect you greatly and value your friendship.

I don't mean to be snide at all when I say this but here is how I really feel: As soon as Patriarch Pavle orders me to debate Coptics then I will most certainly follow marching orders. Instead he said: "If we live as people of God, there will be room for all nations in the Balkans and in the world. If we liken ourselves to Cain who killed his brother Abel, then the entire earth will be too small even for two people. The Lord Jesus Christ teaches us to be always children of God and love one another. We should remember the words of St. Paul: "If it be possible, as much as lies in you, live peaceably with all men."

This forum is just a "virtual" hangout. It is not a church. It's a message board. I think that the EO's who have engaged in all that debate and called people names, should start their own forum. By deciding to start another forum on behalf of the Copts, for them, assumes a position of "moral superiority" and could be construed as such. It smacks of colonial condescension. It seems to me that those who debate and "hold to Traditional Orthodoxy" and are all wound up about each and every difference between the EO and the OO, those are the ones who would be more comfortable in a forum somewhere else. It is not Erwin's problem to solve.

Dear Suzannah:

This has nothing to do with colonialism. I just want them to have their own place where they are not attacked every couple of weeks.

I have dear friends in the Coptic Church and in the Antiochian Church we have no problem. The problem is with the Greeks. This is not a universal practice within Orthodoxy.

It is a unilateral decision. The Coptic Bishops will not allow intercommunion and neither will the Greek Bishops, nor the ROCOR, nor HOCNA, nor ROCA, nor some of the OCA bishops. We are very much divided. Unity does not exist with us nor with the Catholics regarding the Orientals.

I'm just calling a spade a spade, unity does not exist. The emperor is naked.

 

[Suzannah]

Dear Suzannah:

This has nothing to do with colonialism. I just want them to have their own place where they are not attacked every couple of weeks.

I have dear friends in the Coptic Church and in the Antiochian Church we have no problem. The problem is with the Greeks. This is not a universal practice within Orthodoxy.

It is a unilateral decision. The Coptic Bishops will not allow intercommunion and neither will the Greek Bishops, nor the ROCOR, nor HOCNA, nor ROCA, nor some of the OCA bishops. We are very much divided. Unity does not exist with us nor with the Catholics regarding the Orientals.

I'm just calling a spade a spade, unity does not exist. The emperor is naked.

And I'm just saying that it is not up to you to make decisions for them. If they haven't asked for their own forum, why should you on their behalf? I'm not debating this further. I've said what I had to say. Those who get all wound up about this need to get a grip on reality: this is a message board, not a church. It is not a "sancitified" place. It's a virtual hang out.

 

[Oblio]

Of course we (the Staff and Admins of CF) could just as easily make a rule that any bickering about the fine points of Theology that separate us (EO & OO) be taken to the Ecclesiology or other appropriate fora of CF and close any flame fests that break out here

I am just about to do the later in the interest of peace and harmony

 

[Oblio]

[mod hat on]

A good portion of this thread skirts, if not actually violates the following rule:

[notroll]





I suggest that everyone reflect on the contents of the Great Canon, the Lenten readings from Holy Scripture (particulary the pre-Lenten readings), and the words of our Saviour in these passionate times.