Totus Tuus II

[BBAS 64]

Good day, All



Well, while I very genuinely sympathize with how hard it is for those from your perspective to begin to come to terms with how a Christian could pray a prayer like this, for I have been in your shoes, I feel I need to clarify this in order for what I said earlier to not be misconstrued or misunderstood: this does not extend to being sympathetic towards attitudes which are closed off to even trying to understand, especialy when an offer to help has been extended yet ignored.

Since this is your forum, I will not debate your opinions with you here or offer again . . .

I will simply leave you with this saying:

I know you believe you understand what you think I said, but I am sure you realize that what you heard is not what I meant.


​

Peace

Good day, TLF

I seen your offer and do thank you for makingit. I have read that thread over in OBOB and was some what hesitate to partisipate seeing that some other RC had expressed concerns.

I did not think it would be right to interfer with the discussions that were on going with in your denomination around this issue.

But I will lurk....

Peace to u,

Bill

 

[aReformedPatriot]

Peace

Notice how I said "as of yet" It fell off the main board onto page 3 which I thought unusual for OBOB.

 

[Bulldog]

Could somone link to the thread?

 

[thereselittleflower]

Notice how I said "as of yet" It fell off the main board onto page 3 which I thought unusual for OBOB.

Well, not really . . not for a question of that nature . . . It was specifically directed towards me and this is not a prayer most would be familiar with, so naturally, until I was aware of the thread, I wouldn't know it was there to respond to . . .

I think you jumped to a conclusion that was not warranted by the circumstances, but that is my opinion . . . I hope you don't expect me to be here 24 hours a day or if I take longer than you think I should that this somehow "means" something.

The only reason I found it was because of Scott's post here in this thread when I became aware of it.


So, I am curious as to what you think my absence or the lack of reply by others actually "spoke" when you say it spoke "for itself" ? ? ?






Peace

 

[Terri]

Notice how I said "as of yet" It fell off the main board onto page 3 which I thought unusual for OBOB.

Yes, I noticed that too.

It is clear too that when you said that the words spoke for themselves you meant the words of the prayer. Yes, words do have meanings!!

 

[aReformedPatriot]

I was reading that thread (source), and the post TLF made about concerning the many definitions of "possess" (she mentioned we should check out the many definitions above). After a number of different definitions she made a statement along the lines of being able to pick one (any one she wanted) that would make our view of this prayer impotent.

I would argue that is a horribly bad heremeneutic. Words do indeed have many meanings but the author only has one meaning when he writes. If an author uses a word then it is going to have one meaning otherwise communication cannot take place. For instance if I say to you "In the trunk." then one is left clueless as to what he means. It can mean an elephants trunk, car trunk, tree trunk, human trunk, a storage box etc. You need context to be supplied by the same text you are using in order to find out the specific meaning of the word he used.

Looking at this prayer:

Totally yours,
Immaculate Conception, Mary my Mother,
Live in me, Act in me,
Speak in me and through me,
Think your thoughts in my mind,
Love through my heart,
Give me your dispositions and feelings,
Teach, lead me and guide me to Jesus,
Correct, enlighten and expand my thoughts and behavior,
Possess my soul,
Take over my entire personality and life, replace it with Yourself,
Incline me to constant adoration,
Pray in me and through me,
Let me live in you and keep me in this union always.

Q. Who is being addressed? A. Mary.
Q. What is the author to Mary? A. "totally yours"

One of the definitions that was given that I would use to nullify the strong language is "To hold; to occupy without title or ownership." But I ask you this my brethren: If you "hold," or "occupy," something that isn't fully owned by you (in this context, I would assume being owned by Jesus) can you honestly say "Totally Yours" and address this to Mary? No you cannot. Unless one wants to dispute the definition of totally.

"Mary take everything about me, make it yours. Possess Me."

One word, one meaning. In the context of Totus Tuus, the whole self is being given over to her. Assuming the author meant he was in essense "leasing" himself to Mary, why would he need to be guided to Jesus, if Jesus already owned him but was out on loan?

It doesnt make sense because you can only say "totally yours" to one, and that one is God almighty, creator of the heavens and the earth. No one abides in you except for our God alone.

A side thought:

Today SBTS (Southern Baptist Theological Seminary ) hosted a special lecture on Mary. The guy who taught it is a long time missionary to Rome to evangelize Catholics. He taught at Notre Dame (and some other big name that I cant remember). It was fascinating, but an hour went by way to quick for the topic at hand.

A student asked a question on Marian Apparations. His answer was basically this:

All of these "Marian apparations" that tell people to live the gospel, to be devoted to Mary, and to Jesus, sounds totally good and godly doesnt it? Many protestants view these events to be demonic. Some of you here may say, "but demons wont tell people to hold fast to the gospel." I ask you though: The gospel according to whom, Rome? The Universal and one true church? To have devotions to Mary, who is not God? If we believe that the dogmas of the catholic church are wrong, why would we view this as good?

It definitly gave me something to think about.

 

[aReformedPatriot]

Well, not really . . not for a question of that nature . . . It was specifically directed towards me and this is not a prayer most would be familiar with, so naturally, until I was aware of the thread, I wouldn't know it was there to respond to . . .

I think you jumped to a conclusion that was not warranted by the circumstances, but that is my opinion . . . I hope you don't expect me to be here 24 hours a day or if I take longer than you think I should that this somehow "means" something.

The only reason I found it was because of Scott's post here in this thread when I became aware of it.


So, I am curious as to what you think my absence or the lack of reply by others actually "spoke" when you say it spoke "for itself" ? ? ?






Peace

lol, no. Thats why I said as of yet. I didnt want to look like an idiot ya know and the prayer speaks for itself.

 

[Terri]

We must remember that even Satan masquaerades as an angel of light.

2CO 11:13 For such men are false apostles, deceitful workmen, masquerading as apostles of Christ. 14 And no wonder, for Satan himself masquerades as an angel of light. 15 It is not surprising, then, if his servants masquerade as servants of righteousness. Their end will be what their actions deserve.

These are very dangerous times--times when everything that can be shaken will be shaken--only God can not be shaken and if we are holding onto anything other than our pure devotion to Him and Him alone we will either let go of it or we will be destroyed.

HEB 12:26 At that time his voice shook the earth, but now he has promised, "Once more I will shake not only the earth but also the heavens." 27 The words "once more" indicate the removing of what can be shaken--that is, created things--so that what cannot be shaken may remain.

HEB 12:28 Therefore, since we are receiving a kingdom that cannot be shaken, let us be thankful, and so worship God acceptably with reverence and awe, 29 for our "God is a consuming fire."

 

[BT]

Closed for Staff review