Torture

[Audiomatic]

I have a question for Christians who approve of torture.

If you were being tortured, would you lie to stop the pain? Or would you tell the truth even while your fingers were slowly being dislocated one by one?

 

[SUNSTONE]

You have to prove that the prisoner was being tortured, prisoners are known to do anything to try and get out of trouble.


And the whole "They'll say anything to get you to stop" is true to a point. If you were being tortured you would tell the truth, if that didn't get them to stop, you would tell them whatever they wanted to hear.

Dislocating fingers and other extreme methods of torture are not common.
There are far better ways to torture someone without perminant damage.

 

[Nurbz]

You have to prove that the prisoner was being tortured, prisoners are known to do anything to try and get out of trouble.


And the whole "They'll say anything to get you to stop" is true to a point. If you were being tortured you would tell the truth, if that didn't get them to stop, you would tell them whatever they wanted to hear.

Dislocating fingers and other extreme methods of torture are not common.
There are far better ways to torture someone without perminant damage.

Are you being sarcastic? or are you purposely thinking this cruely? Because the puritans got the 'truth' from those accused of being witches, and the inquisitors found those who worshipped the devil.

"You shall know us by our works"

Well if torture was good enough for Jesus....

 

[SUNSTONE]

Are you being sarcastic? or are you purposely thinking this cruely? Because the puritans got the 'truth' from those accused of being witches, and the inquisitors found those who worshipped the devil.

"You shall know us by our works"

Well if torture was good enough for Jesus....

That's your problem, you see a situation where torture is wrong and you assume all torture is bad.


I don't care what laws are in place, if a child molestor who goes on the run immediatly after an Amber Alert, once they catch that person, they will be tortured to find out where the child is.

If Muslims are holding captives and beheading them on TV.
You can bet your last dollar that there will be muslims tortured to find these captives.

In extreme cases like this, it would be a sin not to torture.

 

[JerryChristian]

I beg to differ with you! If the information extracted from a terrorist through torture can result in saving thousands of lives, then let them be tortured. If we could have tortured one Islamic fundamentalist and prevented 911, then we should. Are you saying it is better to have had these thousands die than to gain information by torturing one terrorist? How do you equate the be-heading of Americans. What should happen to those who did that dastardly deed. Should we place them in a hotel room and say, "Please tell us why you did this, and who funded your operation, and Oh by the way, if you don't wish to talk, how about lets go eat some steak and lobster?'

 

[SUNSTONE]

I beg to differ with you! If the information extracted from a terrorist through torture can result in saving thousands of lives, then let them be tortured. If we could have tortured one Islamic fundamentalist and prevented 911, then we should. Are you saying it is better to have had these thousands die than to gain information by torturing one terrorist? How do you equate the be-heading of Americans. What should happen to those who did that dastardly deed. Should we place them in a hotel room and say, "Please tell us why you did this, and who funded your operation, and Oh by the way, if you don't wish to talk, how about lets go eat some steak and lobster?'

I believe in torture in the right situation, if done the right way.
My post was examples of when torture should be allowed.

Like unless it's obvious the person is guilty I wouldn't do any crazy torture, because what if they are innocent?

 

[JerryChristian]

This pre-supposes that all Christians are liars and will lie to stop pain. It also pre-supposes that telling a lie will stop the pain, while telling the truth will cause you to endure more pain. All are false premises. First have you ever read Fox's Book of Martyrs? It is filled with the testimonies of people who became martyed fpr the truth of the Gospels. Not one was martyred for lying. Secondly, peopel who torture are not looking for lies, they are in search of the truth, telling lies increases the torture. Thirdly, if you tell the truth and it will not stop the torture what makes you think adding lies to it will cause it to stop. It's far better to die for the truth than for a lie. Your whole argument is without defense. I was schooled in torture as a Marine. We were taught you hold out as long as you can without giving up valuable information. But, you are not encouraged to lie. If they find out you lied, then you get tortured worse. The best course of action is to say nothing except your name, rank, and service number. Maybe you need some education on this subject.

 

[JerryChristian]

Your post is extremely offensive. It pre-supposes that Republicans worship a different Jesus Christ than your idea of who Jesus is. And it places words in the mouth of Jesus that He has not spoken. Have you ever considered what blasphemy is?

 

[SUNSTONE]

Whatever man, have you ever been tortured? I have.

A guy with a shotgun pointed at me while another beats me up because they thought I broke into their van.
I didn't, and I kept saying "You've got the wrong guy" over and over and over.

I don't care if it's republican or democrate, or the cops, I don't care.
My opinion on torture is made up and unchangeable.
I believe in it during the right situations with the right methods.

 

[SUNSTONE]

You obviously don't know what you're talking about.
You have never seen one of those videos.

They cut there heads off with a pocket knife, it takes almost a minute to do it.

And the fact that they know they are going to die like that, that is also torture just knowing that, and then you die a torturous death.

 

[SUNSTONE]

Whatever.

 

[Nurbz]

You obviously don't know what you're talking about.
You have never seen one of those videos.

They cut there heads off with a pocket knife, it takes almost a minute to do it.

And the fact that they know they are going to die like that, that is also torture just knowing that, and then you die a torturous death.

its a shorter duration of suffering than months of abuse... oh, I'm sorry months of "God's work". A political party is not a source of spiritual guidance.

 

[SUNSTONE]

its a shorter duration of suffering than months of abuse... oh, I'm sorry months of "God's work". A political party is not a source of spiritual guidance.

I think it's pointless to talk to you and I suspect that you have an agenda that isn't Christian.

 

[Nurbz]

I think it's pointless to talk to you and I suspect that you have an agenda that isn't Christian.

suggesting christians actually behave like christ and challenging hypocrisy isn't christian hmm?

 

[SUNSTONE]

suggesting christians actually behave like christ and challenging hypocrisy isn't christian hmm?

You're backwards.

You defend the wicked ( unwilling to torture terrorists to prevent the deaths of future victims,unwilling to go to war with terrorists to stop them from their evil, unwilling to torture a child raper who has a child hidden some where and will do it again with out that confession and evidence, you don't mind killing babys but death row inmates you want to allow to live, abortion fornicators who use abortion as birth control, gay lifestyle, drug lifestyle even thou they kill and ruin lives, fornication)

And attack the innocent (unborn babys, victims of terrorists, children locked away some where by a child rapest/murderer and you are willing to let that child die instead of some torture which is nothing but manipulation with pain without doing any damage that would not require even so much as a band aid)

Your agenda is to try and manipulate christians into staying out of the government so that you can have your way with it.

 

[Ed Raby]

Okay I haven't read all the posts on this thread, but I want to make a quick point on torture.

Torture to me is not always a sin. If that was the case then God could very well be considered a sinner. Some of the things God ordered people to do in the Bible would be considered torture. So I think it is safe to say that torture is something that is not always a sin. God tortured or put to death people who were immoral. One of the reasons I don't have a problem with the Torture of prisoners is because the prisoners have done things immoral and against the law of the lands. The problem is that to many Christians get this Liberal point of view "Oh we have to fight for peace." News flash peace has never and will never be achieved so get over it.

 

[jdale72]

I think whats happening here is we're confusing torture (someone getting their kicks from hurting someone) and the means to which we wage war, whether against crime or an enemy from another country. In war we use what we have to wage it. If you had happened to have been on the recieving end of anyone of Americas bombing raids in anyone of our war you'd have quite a different view on what you called torture and terrorism. So they cut off heads of innocent people and we bomb cities full of them, I'm sure we all (governments) imploy unsavory methods to try and get imformation to bring what ever it is we're fighting at the time to a quick end. Torture never, a tool of war necessary.

 

[Nurbz]

You defend the wicked ( unwilling to torture terrorists to prevent the deaths of future victims,unwilling to go to war with terrorists to stop them from their evil, unwilling to torture a child raper who has a child hidden some where and will do it again with out that confession and evidence, you don't mind killing babys but death row inmates you want to allow to live, abortion fornicators who use abortion as birth control, gay lifestyle, drug lifestyle even thou they kill and ruin lives, fornication)

And attack the innocent (unborn babys, victims of terrorists, children locked away some where by a child rapest/murderer and you are willing to let that child die instead of some torture which is nothing but manipulation with pain without doing any damage that would not require even so much as a band aid)

And you make hateful judgement on others. I never discussed my stance on the other issues you make assumptions about.

"Do not mistreat an alien or oppress him, for you were aliens in Egypt. Do not take advantage of a widow or an orphan. If you do and they cry out to me, I will certainly hear their cry" (Ex. 22:21-23)

Your agenda is to try and manipulate christians into staying out of the government so that you can have your way with it.

religion should not be in control of government, it becomes corrupted and evil (hence christians thinking tormenting prisoners is ok despite many innocents suffering so an ends justify the means). I would have figured medieval catholic europe, or current middle-eastern muslim states would have made that obvious.

"An alliance or coalition between Government and religion cannot be too carefully guarded against......Every new and successful example therefore of a perfect speration between ecclesiastical and civil matters is of importance........religion and government will exist in greater purity, without (rather) than with the aid of government."
-James Madison

"In every country in every age, the priest has been hostile to liberty. He is always in alliance with the despot, abetting his abuses in return for protection to his own. "
-Thomas Jefferson, from letters to Horatio G. Spafford and Dr. Thomas Cooper.


Keep thinking its alright if you want, but as christians start to support torture, the more we'll be hated as barbarians and hypocrits by civilized society and the more people abondon the faith. A Christ that tortures is not a Christ I would follow.

 

[JerryChristian]

I'm sorry you got beat up, but that does not equate to torture. I have been beaten also, but it's not the same as torture, it's just a good old fashioned beating. There are many elements to torture, they include mental, and physical. Most of what people consider torture today is not harmful at all physically, such as sleep deprivation as long as it's not carried to an extreme. Waterboarding does no physical damage, but can wreak havoc on one emotionally. I've been subjected to sleep deprivation, and although it is very uncomfortable, it isn't physically harmful unless carried to an extreme. So you're not alone heer. I have experiences in this area also. And my experience tells me, torture when necessary to prevent the destruction of human lives.

 

[JerryChristian]

Well here is a little hypocrisy for you. Democrats support abortion, but hate torture. Is it not torture to tear apart a fetus all in the name of birth control? They are all about animal rights, but kill babies. They want to save the trees, but think it's ok to kill a human fetus. There is no party that has the lock on righteousness, and hopefully we all serve the same Jesus. You are the one who made the portrayal of Jesus as a Republican, not me. You may have a valid argument, but when you interject Jesus into your political viewpoint, you will have undesirable responses. Jesus never told us to follow any political party, but to follow Him and His teachings. Your liberal left wing bias is showing!