"Toronto Blessing"

[Grl4Christ987]

I put "Of God" but I'm starting to lean towards "Other" now that I stop and think about it for more than a minute or so. God created laughter for His pleasure and ours, so I have no problem with that, nor with being slain in the Spirit because that's just the best feeling in the world to me, much more deeper and personal than even speaking in a tongue..but as with all things there are extreme sides to everything. All of us here will be quick to defend the good and proper and expected things of Pentecostalism/Charismatic behaviour but not all things are truly able to be justified even with our quaint preferences.

In Christ,

Kimmie

 

[Andrew]

You're entitled to your opinion, but I will tell you that once you experience something...you will be less quick to judge.

Try it.... you might like it.

A merry heart doeth good like a medicine.....

Amen sister! I sure could do with a whole lot more of laughter in my life. I wish the Holy Spirit would just hit me so hard and make me laugh for a couple of hours!

 

[JimB]

Toronto, Pensacola, anywhere “manifestations” happen it usually attracts people whose only interest is in seeing something weird.

The Pensacola “Awakening” effected our community in a positive way (at first), mostly among Southern Baptists – and we are 550 miles away! Busloads of people from our area went down there but many of them, as it turned out, went to see the woman whose head shook the whole time she was in church. She gained quite a reputation for her “manifestation”. It didn’t shake on her job, she said in the circulated video, only in the presence of God. I didn’t want to discredit the reality of it but I wondered if the only time God was present with her is when she was at the revival.

In the weeks that followed the van loads of people returning from the revival a local semi-Charismatic SBC church (i.e., they are open to giftings) began to experience problems. Shaking heads distracted from the preaching of the Word, I was told. One woman in particular would do strange things – speak loudly in tongues for prolonged periods, whirl and dance at inappropriate times, speak (prophesy) strange, unfathomable, metaphysical “words” into peoples’ lives, call for the church to abandon programs or launch new ones. The services began to be all about her and her latest “manifestation” and the numbers began to dwindle. Criticisms arose from some quarters that injured her feelings and five years ago her family dropped out of church – all churches – and now a son is into drugs. The church never recovered from Pensacola. Today it has a million-dollar building with a fraction of the crowd they once had to pay for it. Members are at odds with each other. They are now without a pastor for more than year. And their once shining witness in our community is gone.

And they are still at odds. One group blames the Pensacola madness; the other blames the rest for “not following God”.

Anyhow, if you can tell a tree by the fruit it produces, the fruit of Pensacola in our community appears rotten and that may say something about the tree. I have heard similar scary stories from Toronto.

Were Toronto and Pensacola moves of God? Probably. But, IMO, they were certainly not administered/managed well by those God may hold responsible for leadership.

\o/

 

[Andrew]

Isn't it sad the church was so religious and serious God had to teach us how to laugh again, shake'em ladies till their hairpins fell out of their tight neat buns, roll them on the floor and make them dance?

Anyway, prophetically, I believe the Toronto blessing parallels the birth of Isaac in the Bible. You have Sarah (grace), Hagar (law), Abraham (faith), Ishmael (child of the flesh)... there's definitely something hidden there...

 

[KleinerApfel]

Anyway, prophetically, I believe the Toronto blessing parallels the birth of Isaac in the Bible. You have Sarah (grace), Hagar (law), Abraham (faith), Ishmael (child of the flesh)... there's definitely something hidden there...

Interesting. Have any more on that Andrew?

 

[JimB]

Isn't it sad the church was so religious and serious God had to teach us how to laugh again, shake'em ladies till their hairpins fell out of their tight neat buns, roll them on the floor and make them dance?
*****

I have never bought into this tired old Pentecostal slogan (not even when I wuz a Pentecostal). There are other ways of teaching humility than forcing us to be bizarre. Most people I know who do bizarre, attention-getting things like you mentioned are not humbled by it; they are downright PROUD of it. I just don’t see the connection between bizarre behavior and humility.

\o/

 

[Andrew]

Who's talking about teaching humility?

I'm talking about loosening up in church.

Bizzare? I thot Jesus putting mud on the eyes of a blind man was more bizzare. Or the leper king who was told to dip 7 times in the Jordan.

 

[Father Rick]

Toronto, Pensacola, anywhere “manifestations” happen it usually attracts people whose only interest is in seeing something weird.

The Pensacola “Awakening” effected our community in a positive way (at first), mostly among Southern Baptists – and we are 550 miles away! Busloads of people from our area went down there but many of them, as it turned out, went to see the woman whose head shook the whole time she was in church. She gained quite a reputation for her “manifestation”. It didn’t shake on her job, she said in the circulated video, only in the presence of God. I didn’t want to discredit the reality of it but I wondered if the only time God was present with her is when she was at the revival.

In the weeks that followed the van loads of people returning from the revival a local semi-Charismatic SBC church (i.e., they are open to giftings) began to experience problems. Shaking heads distracted from the preaching of the Word, I was told. One woman in particular would do strange things – speak loudly in tongues for prolonged periods, whirl and dance at inappropriate times, speak (prophesy) strange, unfathomable, metaphysical “words” into peoples’ lives, call for the church to abandon programs or launch new ones. The services began to be all about her and her latest “manifestation” and the numbers began to dwindle. Criticisms arose from some quarters that injured her feelings and five years ago her family dropped out of church – all churches – and now a son is into drugs. The church never recovered from Pensacola. Today it has a million-dollar building with a fraction of the crowd they once had to pay for it. Members are at odds with each other. They are now without a pastor for more than year. And their once shining witness in our community is gone.

And they are still at odds. One group blames the Pensacola madness; the other blames the rest for “not following God”.

Anyhow, if you can tell a tree by the fruit it produces, the fruit of Pensacola in our community appears rotten and that may say something about the tree. I have heard similar scary stories from Toronto.

Were Toronto and Pensacola moves of God? Probably. But, IMO, they were certainly not administered/managed well by those God may hold responsible for leadership.

\o/

Jim...

I think you're making a far stretch in blaming a revival in Pensacola to a woman's son doing drugs hundreds of miles away and several steps removed.

In your story it seems quite clear that the leadership of the local church to which the lady belonged did not provide proper leadership/correction when there were errors and excesses in that congregation. There will always be excesses and errors-- it is the responsibility of leadership to address those. I would put much more of the onus on that woman's pastor who did not disciple her, when he had the opportunity to over a lengthy period of time, than I would on a location many miles away that she visited occasionally.

 

[JimB]

Jim...

I think you're making a far stretch in blaming a revival in Pensacola to a woman's son doing drugs hundreds of miles away and several steps removed.

In your story it seems quite clear that the leadership of the local church to which the lady belonged did not provide proper leadership/correction when there were errors and excesses in that congregation. There will always be excesses and errors-- it is the responsibility of leadership to address those. I would put much more of the onus on that woman's pastor who did not disciple her, when he had the opportunity to over a lengthy period of time, than I would on a location many miles away that she visited occasionally.

I would not blame Pensacola, directly. But a lot of people went and came away from the meetings with the wrong ideas because its leaders, IMO, did not administer it properly. They allowed the focus of the meetings to become the manifestations for too many people. And that bore bad fruit. I saw its bad fruit in our city.

So, there could be connection between Pensacola and the wayward son. She bought into and then misapplied what she saw in Pensacola .and it resulted in her family being criticized and leaving a Christian community (where her son was actively involved with the youth) and the positive influence that her son was receiving. He fell in with his unchurched friends at school and … etc., etc.

I remember the pastor in Pensacola, to wild applause, say one evening while we were there, “You may think some of these things are strange but, hey, we didn’t start this thing and we are not going to stop it.” But how about properly leading it? Apparently, he was not thinking of 1 Corinthians 14 when said that.

The leadership in her local church, I need to remind you, were men of SBC tradition, uninitiated in “manifestations” and overwhelmed by what was happening. They truly did not want to, as they said, “quench the Spirit”, but didn’t know how to handle the situation. So, they did nothing, just as the pastor in Pensacola did, and it resulted in confusion and dissolution. Leaders are supposed to lead … in Pensacola as well as in Nacogdoches.

IMO.

\o/

 

[Reazzurro90]

For those who keep supporting by bashing in "you need to experience it" - please go and save your breath. No experience can be trusted to be of God unless it's biblical too. A horrendous and fanatical laughter, howling like a wolf, are not scriptural. There is not a single verse that can support that. The Bible condemns putting your feelings over scripture, for the heart is just as evil as any other part of the flesh.


“The heart is deceitful above all things
and beyond cure.
Who can understand it?” (Jeremiah 17:9)

And Paul also told Timothy:

“Watch your life and doctrine closely. Persevere in them, because if you do, you will save both yourself and your hearers.” (1 Timothy 4:16)

And it was also said:

“For the time will come when men will not put up with sound doctrine. Instead, to suit their own desires, they will gather around them a great number of teachers to say what their itching ears want to hear. 4They will turn their ears away from the truth and turn aside to myths.” (2 Timothy 4 3-4)


So you see, we must go by more than experience, which you seem to claim is more important than the word.

 

[Shalia]

What's all of your views on the Toronto Blessings (AKA, "Holy Laughter, Drunk in the Spirit, loud howling, etc")? Is it of God, of Satan, or of man?

Personally, I think it's definitely NOT of God.

Er... as embarassing as this is to admit...

What are the "Toronto Blessings" anyways? People mention them and I have no clue.

 

[JimB]

Er... as embarassing as this is to admit...

What are the "Toronto Blessings" anyways? People mention them and I have no clue.

It’s an alleged revival characterized by hysterical laughter, barking like dogs, grunting like pigs, braying like an ass, and stuff like that. Oh, and it spread from Toronto.

\o/

 

[ChristianMuse]

My wife and I went with a friend to the Toronto Blessing. (I was going there because I felt the Lord asking me to go to the meeting. I asked him why? To sit and observe only, he said.) The three of us took our seats and the service began. Holy laughter, sobbing, roaring, and various degrees of enthusiasm. Praise, worship and speaking in tongues. Words of prophecy. It was a lively meeting.

Later in the evening I asked God what it was all about. Some of it was from God. Some of it was from the enemy. And of course, some of it was the flesh. Here is my understanding of what was going on.

Some people got together under the umbrella of the Vineyard Movement. God began to manifest his Spirit in the meetings. This was a fresh outpouring of God's Spirit. The people became children in the eyes of God and acted accordingly. Laughing, crying, roaring like lions with all the exuberance and passion of children at play. This was wonderful. This was great. Eventually Satan wanted to stop it. He began to counterfeit what was going on to bring disgrace on the movement. Other people appeared to watch the show. Still others got carried away by their own flesh and reached earthly realms of mental ecstasy. It was a circus when I went yet I know that the hand of God was moving. With time I believed they would mature and the devil and the mentally aroused would be reigned in.

I haven't been back since that time. Have they matured? I do not know. Yet God is still moving and the Blessing has moved to other countries. Hopefully with more maturity but with no less power to set free.

 

[Shalia]

Thanks for the info. Sounds fishy to me...

I'm not entirely sure why. Might be my own prejudices, might be discernment, unsure. But it sounds fishy.

Thank you for telling me what it was about though, both of you!

 

[luvinjesus111]

Joy of the Lord

 

[Reazzurro90]

Thanks for the info. Sounds fishy to me...

I'm not entirely sure why. Might be my own prejudices, might be discernment, unsure. But it sounds fishy.

Thank you for telling me what it was about though, both of you!

Shalia, these movements are very tricky. But to me it doesn't click on why God would have someone roar like a lion, and to laugh hysterically (not a giggle, because the Holy Spirit can give you enough comfort to laugh) while disrupting the worship of others.

There's also no biblical evidence for it. I do not trust movements that have no biblical basis.

 

[Celticflame]

The British media dubbed "Toronto Blessing" was a revival that sparked off at the Toronto Airport.

This Revival came from God to reveal the Fathers Heart to a Generation which at a all time High Rate has been fatherless.

With all Revivals, the countefiet will try to come in and destroy. But I have really been blessed by TACF, and John and Carol Arnott. I do not believe this was a Deception Revival, but a Revival to wake up the church.

I have seen many great things happen at TACF. I watch all their conferences, as I don't live anywhere near.

Prior to the Toronto Blessing, John and Carol had experienced the Holy Laughter at a Claudio Fredizon Revival Meeting while Randy Clark was touched at Rhema by Rodney Howard Browne.

Kenneth Hagin saw Revival Fire sparking across the world, once Rodney Howard Brwone had came to Rhema. While a Burnout Vineyard Pastor was searching for God named "Randy Clark" decided to go to Rhema as the Lord instructed. In those days Randy was hesitent about going to the homk,e of name it and claim it, but the Lord instructed him and their he experienced a mighty touch from RHB, which in January 1994 sparked off a Revival that would affect the world.

I have footage of one woman who was their that night, with just months to live, who got healed, and was drunk for many days. At the 10th Catch the Fire conference she gave her testimony, on what happened back at the start of the Ourpouring.

And their has been many testimonies, such as Heidi Bakers expereince that ushered her into a ministry that has been shaken regions and nations.

 

[Father Rick]

And for those that may not be aware, simultaneously with the outbreaks of revival in the US, missionaries in Russia had identical things begin to happen there as well. There wasn't the press (due to obvious political situations), but I heard the missionaries there, who were not even aware of what was occurring in the US/Canada, share about virtually identical revival sweeping through many of the churches. The missionaries though it was a unique thing happening with them an did not know what was going on here until a couple of years later when they came home on furlough and found out that it wasn't quite as unique as they thought.

 

[JimB]

Why is this kind of stuff (barking, roaring, farting, etc.) of any importance at all? Did God design church to be a three-ring circus? Are church gatherings meant for our entertainment? This seems like such a waste of valuable time and energy. Surely there are more important things for us to consider – world poverty, starvation, AIDs in Africa, broken homes, abused children, substabce abuse … etc.etc., ad infinitum. God has to be grieved with our P/C preoccupation with “manifestations” and silliness like this.

\o/

 

[LeeS]

I would agree Jim. The only ones who seem to be preoccupied with it are the ones who don't like it. There must be better things for these people to do than nit-pick over how other churches conduct their services.