Torn

[memoriesbymichelle]

I've not read this particular link, but I have read many books and web sites about this topic, I know there are scholars on both sides as I always read the scholars for both sides of an issue before making up my mind. Its clear to me that the scholars who say the Bible is talking about homosexuality as we know it are ignoring much of the context that the Bible was written in. Yup, others come to a different conclusion.

I just read quickly your link. It says what I've read many times. The logic used there in my mind is adding to what the Bible says and the comments about Sodom and Gomorrah really miss what that story is all about from my reading of the story.

it addresses the original language which you say is the beef. But whatever, I know I cannot change anyone's mind but I don't agree with you either. To ME, it's VERY clear it is about sexuality.

 

[dayhiker]

- You know me, I don't pressure anyone to change what they believe? But I am curious if you think Sodom and Gamorr0h is about homosexuality and how you get to that if you do?

 

[sampa]

Was just thinking about - "role modeling" and "leadership". Abraham was a leader to the Isrealites, King David was a leader to his people and all were supposed to be ordained by the Lord..I'm sure theres many other Godly leaders to think of. Abraham made it clear that idolatry (not putting on the same level as gay actions, but is on the same level of Gods thinking of sin as sin and lifestyle sin is of a nonrepentant heart) was not to be tolerated. The promises in the bible talk of a being a blessed (nation). In my quiet time yesterday I was reading in deutoronomy of the blessings and then the curses took up another page and a half for rebellion. Like don't act in rebellion, or this is what will happen. (at the same time in the context of New Testament times, I can't help but think Gods character and displeasure doensn't change).

Why might this not apply as a model to our country. The more leaders have a framework for morality, not the morality of hitler, the better it can operate. Especially if that leadership is a prayerful leadership and referring back to the founding fathers. I'm not sure if this is making any sense (very tired 10hr work days and a 22 mile drive to get back home after I use internet here).

Was very saddened to hear of the news of a university campus signing a petition to ban chick fil a. 16,000 just blew me out of the water, we live in a free country and I do think everyone has the right to speech, I'm just hoping this is not twisted in a fashion to veer towards the side of hatred towards christians because they think they are venemous towards gays.

Here's the petition of anti gay marriage as going against "human rights" , as SEc Hilary Clinton announced.
Here's an interesting article from a pro-gay marriage side and their view of christians and fallacy.Walt Hawkins: Don't Have a Cow Over Chick-fil-A

 

[sampa]

Don't know if this will show up, but I thought its an interesting discussion and could be in another thread if need be.
https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?...17164940.27911.129370207168068&type=1&theater

 

[dayhiker]

sampa .. very good points. There are many leaders who are models for others. Most are human enough so they aren't perfect. So its easy to find fault or mistakes they made.

My evaluation of the Chick-Fil-A is that its minor in the grand scheme of things. I'd like to see each side express their opinion and rejoice that even tho they disagree with the others view, that they are free to express their opinion. Actually, it sounded like that is what many were doing.

My study of history says the biggest problem is money. If leaders don't manage how money is spent by the government, it creates a lot of resentment, it creates a hopeless feeling in the poor, the rich have barricade themselves and limit their travel to places that are just for the rich. So they can't learn to have compassion on the poor. Years ago I read the read the economic history of Roman. They got themselves in shuch a bad postion that they were destorying the family, their farms and the different territories around the empire.

 

[memoriesbymichelle]

There is very little "free speech" anymore and that is a sad fact. Also the ones that scream at us for being intolerant, are exactly that...intolerant of our views, like how dare WE disagree or say we don't believe what they are living. I don't hate gays, or anyone else. I think mostly they are deceived in one form or another..and because of that, it would be impossible for me or anyone to change their opinion on the issue, so I wouldn't even try. I just wish they would be what they claim they want us all to be TOLERANT of each other!

 

[sampa]

Guys thanks for the thoughts. Some good news, everywhere it seems its being reported in a good light. The government in a bad light. The Chicago Tribune had a couple of articles for free speech and the tasteless acts of our government. Also Time magazine from a gay guys point of view. Its encouraging. I really do see prayer very much giving ground in small things such as this. Keep praying any and at all times as national things occur.

 

[sampa]

ohh and edit on the last post, one reason I wish I had internet at home. I realized driving home I meant to use Moses as an example, not Abraham:/

 

[Lone Wolfe]

IMHO, the greatest oxymoron is a gay/lesbian church!

Leviticus 20:13 If a man lies with a male as with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination; they shall surely be put to death; their blood is upon them.

1 Corinthians 6:9-10 Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: neither the sexually immoral, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor men who practice homosexuality, nor thieves, nor the greedy, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God.

It's plain & simple! No one will convince me any different that being gay/lesbian is acceptable with God. Anyone who believes it's alright to be gay/lesbian, is living their lives in a fantasy world.

 

[memoriesbymichelle]

what about Romans 1:27

In the same way the men also abandoned natural relations with women and were inflamed with lust for one another. Men committed indecent acts with other men, and received in themselves the due penalty for their perversion

and also Leviticus 18:22

"'Do not lie with a man as one lies with a woman; that is detestable."