Torn

[sampa]

Not sure how many of you have gay friends, but chic fil A is recently getting press because of different cities stances on the CEO's values not meshing with theirs. is it just me or is it getting harder and harder to express rights without others seeing you as intolerant and hateful?

I posted on facebook only thinking of my christian friends and forgetting the multitude of gay friends or those with friends until someone that works for the onion NYC and I had met in japan, posted a correction on the mayor not banning them but saying thier values of intolerance of gays doens't mesh the citiies.

So I feel torn, how do I love my friends but say how mileristic it is when the government gets invovled with personal views. It almost seems on the level of race, but I don't think it can be.

 

[memoriesbymichelle]

Isn't it ironic that they scream at us for being intolerant of THEIR beliefs because we don't think like them and in doing so they are completely intolerant of us having a different opinion?
It's a crazy world we live in. I love PEOPLE but that does not mean that I have to support every other person's personal beliefs! That's what makes us unique.
I have gay friends too, but I just don't go there with issues because I could never "convince" them to be different. They have to choose on their own IMO. I am not their judge, Jesus is. So I love them the best I can.
I am deeply saddened that there is no free speech any more. And IMO it wasn't that way before our current president got elected. Before that, there was "politically correct" but you could disagree with someone. Now it seems you can't say anything otherwise you are prejudist in some way or another

 

[dayhiker]

I support the Flic_fil_a owner in saying what he said.
I support the Mayor of Boston in what he said. I think its clear he doesn't have the authority to keep anyone from starting a business in the city. So he was expressing his opinion.

My opinion is that God loves gays just like everyone else. God hates rape and violence. I don't think God or the Bible in what it originally said views any relationship that is not hurting someone as sinful, be they gay, single, friends or married.

 

[memoriesbymichelle]

I think it's completely wrong of Rahm Emanuel to say he will block Chik-fil-A from opening a restaurant in Chicago because their beliefs don't mesh. Who the heck is he besides a mobster thug politician?

 

[blackribbon]

I kind of feel that anyone who is truly "tolerant" should be able to tolerate my lack of tolerance for their viewpoint.

However, honestly, I accept people exactly where they are but I don't have to agree with their decisions or lifestyles...and I'm not sure why that is considered "being intolerant".

 

[blackribbon]

The sad thing is that Chic-fil-a is just a little fast food restaurant...nobody's life is going to be truly affected if they tolerate or don't tolerate the gay lifestyle...they just serve good chicken sandwiches and waffle fries and care about customer service...how is there "intolerance" going to really make a matter in the world?

We live in a post Christian society now. It is okay to believe in anything BUT the Christian worldview point. We are required to change and go mushy on our belief systems while nobody else is.

 

[memoriesbymichelle]

I kind of feel that anyone who is truly "tolerant" should be able to tolerate my lack of tolerance for their viewpoint.

However, honestly, I accept people exactly where they are but I don't have to agree with their decisions or lifestyles...and I'm not sure why that is considered "being intolerant".

That's what I don't get either! Having a viewpoint is not being intolerant. Being intolerant would be not wanting to be in the same room, job, plane or whatever by so and so because he is blankety blank.
Why can't we just agree to disagree like we used to?

The sad thing is that Chic-fil-a is just a little fast food restaurant...nobody's life is going to be truly affected if they tolerate or don't tolerate the gay lifestyle...they just serve good chicken sandwiches and waffle fries and care about customer service...how is there "intolerance" going to really make a matter in the world?

We live in a post Christian society now. It is okay to believe in anything BUT the Christian worldview point. We are required to change and go mushy on our belief systems while nobody else is.

This is another thing that upsets me too! Just like if we say we don't like the president, suddenly we are racist and if we don't embrace homosexuality we are intolerant, and if we want people to come to this country legally, we are discriminators, really???

 

[sampa]

I am deeply saddened that there is no free speech any more. And IMO it wasn't that way before our current president got elected. Before that, there was "politically correct" but you could disagree with someone. Now it seems you can't say anything otherwise you are prejudist in some way or another [/COLOR]

Yes it saddens me too.

....
We live in a post Christian society now. It is okay to believe in anything BUT the Christian worldview point. We are required to change and go mushy on our belief systems while nobody else is.

Yes, thats how it seems. After the cali beauty pagent, I began to see some big changes. Who knows, someday the morals may go so far that what we would sheild from kids eyes and ears may someday be considered intolerant.

 

[mjmcmillan]

I think the mayor had to back down a bit. The alderman might still try to keep Chick-Fil-A out of his ward, but the mayor has to consider allowing them into the city. Turns out that the Rahmulan Empire is a trifle bigger than "Boys Town", and while you wouldn't know it at times, there's still a lot of Bible-believing Christians there. Bowing down to the demands of one relatively small pressure group just might be political suicide.

It's not necessarily political suicide to ban a fast-food outfit from the city. Telling a sizable portion of the voting public that they don't have a voice at your table, however--- that's not the way to get re-elected. That is exactly what the mayor inadvertently did, and that's why he has to modify his view.

 

[aloou]

Well it's popular right now to call those who oppose gay marriage as bigots. It's popular to support gays. The path is narrow. This will tame down just as abortions tamed down due to pro-life campaigners. Eventually the gay lifestyles will prove to be undesirable as children growing up in an unnatural family situations start to carry the sins of their parents. The ways of sin seem right in the moment but eventually catch up. Women carry the pain of abortion the rest of their lives, gays will carry the disfunctional home life the rest of theirs. The worst thing this country did years ago was create "politically correct" terms making freedom of speech slowly extinct and extremely subjective. Politicians play on whatever topic is popular at the moment and bend their true values to sway in the peripheral political wind oftentimes fueling dangerous emotions in the population.

 

[mjmcmillan]

Yesterday, there was a Day of Support for Chick-Fil-A at least here in the Chicago area. The Downtown store and the one in Orland Park did well, I understand, and the one nearby me in Lombard got support. The food's not bad, and of course there's the free speech issues. Not to mention that there's more than a handful that are against gay marriage--- as the politicians would find out if it comes to a vote.

http://www.suntimes.com/14154442-761/anti-gay-marriage-controversy-draws-crowd-to-local-chick-fil-as.html?print=true

 

[dayhiker]

The two in Chick-Fil-A north of Boston were very busy yesterday as well.

I personally support gay marriage, only a couple of % of the population are gay and a small percent of those will marry, so I don't see any big deal since its such small numbers.

 

[aloou]

The two in Chick-Fil-A north of Boston were very busy yesterday as well.

I personally support gay marriage, only a couple of % of the population are gay and a small percent of those will marry, so I don't see any big deal since its such small numbers.

How can you support the sin of gay marriage? That's like saying you support murder, thievery, liars, and adulterers. As a Christian how can you support sin?

 

[dayhiker]

HI aloou,
Well, I did quite a bit of study about the words that are using in the Bible and how they are translated. I don't think they are talking about what we are talking about when we say homosexual activity. So I don't see it as sin. If I understood the Bible to be talking about it, then I'd say it is sin.

 

[memoriesbymichelle]

HI aloou,
Well, I did quite a bit of study about the words that are using in the Bible and how they are translated. I don't think they are talking about what we are talking about when we say homosexual activity. So I don't see it as sin. If I understood the Bible to be talking about it, then I'd say it is sin.

Wow dayhiker I know we disagree about premarital sex, but the bible is very clear. Why do you think God destroyed Sodom and Gommorah?
Do you really believe that our God would allow us to have a deceptive bible that would say things He didn't mean? I mean He IS the God of the universe after all, so I don't think He would allow ALL the Christians or most of them to be "deceived" by letting the translation be wrong. What else could it mean when it says

[FONT=Arial, Helvetica]They exchanged the truth of God for a lie, and worshiped and served created things rather than the Creator-- who is forever praised. Amen. Because of this, God gave them over to shameful lusts. Even their women exchanged natural relations for unnatural ones. In the same way the men also abandoned natural relations with women and were inflamed with lust for one another. Men committed indecent acts with other men, and received in themselves the due penalty for their perversion. [/FONT][FONT=Arial, Helvetica](NIV, Romans 1:25-27)[/FONT]

 

[mjmcmillan]

I just love it when somebody starts with "But that's not what it says in the Greek"---. No, really? Problem is, that's exactly what it says in every English translation I can lay my hands on. It says it in such a way as to leave no room for doubt.

The only reason I can see to support gay marriage is because it's hard to see how two guys (or two gals) marrying can do much more damage to the institution of marriage than we've already done. Hollywood marriages are laughable, for example. The ink isn't even dry on the marriage certificate and they're getting ready to divorce, usually for adultery. But, when you get right down to it, that's not reason to support gay marriage. It's reason to clean up our own house and get it in order so we can show others how marriage is supposed to be done.

 

[memoriesbymichelle]

I do not, or would not, go around telling all the gay people I come across they will burn in hell for their lifestyles. I don't believe they are correct, but I also don't think their sin is greater than mine because that's what the bible says. Sin is sin. The same way I wouldn't go telling all the drug addicts they will go to hell. I also think alot of gay people believe that they were created that way, and they have no choice, just like we don't have a choice in what color we are. So it would do no good to "argue" with them because they will not become "convinced" unless the Holy Spirit draws them to Jesus. I do not support gay "marriage" but I don't care if they want certain rights as a "couple" just don't call it marriage. And I even know a few gay people that believe in God and Jesus (yes I know, even the demons believe and tremble). But my fight is not against flesh and blood, it's against principalities, against powers, against rulers of the darkness of this world against spiritual wickedness in high places, according to Ephesians 6:12. In God's perfect timing each of those "gay" people will have a choice to make and it is between them and God. In the meantime, I am to glorify God in my life and being hateful, does not glorify God. If they ask me what I believe I would tell them the truth, but otherwise I try to live peaceably with all men.

 

[memoriesbymichelle]

Dayhiker here is a link where they also look at the original text.

Does The Bible Say That Homosexuality Is Sin? | Answers From The Book

 

[dayhiker]

Well, its a lot of info to cover it all.
For now I'd just address Sodom and Gomorrah. This image is used about 40 times in the Bible, almost always for judgement not sexuality. It is a big deal in the Bible just as we deal for us today. But I don't see the connection to homosexuality.

Both Abraham and Lot greeted the visitors with the respect that would be given to the highest authorities in the land. They knew they were not just anyone traveling thru the country.
There is a sexual thing going on in the story, but its not homosexuality. These visitors are angels, not humans. Homosexuality is a same sex action between humans, not sex between beings of different types of beings. Its more like bestiality than homosexuality as we think of it.
Next even if we ignore that the visitors are angels and say they are men, then it would be rape not consensual sex.
Also only one of the 40 some references to Sodom and Gomorrah in the Bible refer to this as a sexual thing. The OT, if a reason is given gives the reason as the men of the city treating the visitors with no respect, inhospitable. Almost all the references are just Sodom as an allegory for judgement.
The one NT reference that has implied sexual reference is in Jude. If you read Jude in the Greek you will see that its not a homo reference. Homo in the Greek means of the same kind. But Jude uses the Greek word hetero, of a different kind. They were having sex with a being that was a different kind than they were.
Then its good to know a cultural fact that has been true thru most of human history and its only western Christian history that has changed it for our armies. When ever a group of people conquered another group of people they raped both the men and woman. In reading the OT we see the prophets mentioned this numerous times that the gentiles would rape the women. Often people raped the men to show much more powerful they, the conquers were and to humiliate the men and women. It became the ultimate demonstration of how weak a people were when conquered. This is really what is going on in Sodom. They wanted to show they were more powerful than God's angels.

You can count up the reasons why but Sodom and Gomorrah have nothing to do with homosexuality as far as I can see. I believe to teach that Sodom and Gomorrah is a warning about God's judgement against homosexuals is totally ignore what the Bible is saying.

 

[dayhiker]

Dayhiker here is a link where they also look at the original text.

Does The Bible Say That Homosexuality Is Sin? | Answers From The Book

I've not read this particular link, but I have read many books and web sites about this topic, I know there are scholars on both sides as I always read the scholars for both sides of an issue before making up my mind. Its clear to me that the scholars who say the Bible is talking about homosexuality as we know it are ignoring much of the context that the Bible was written in. Yup, others come to a different conclusion.

I just read quickly your link. It says what I've read many times. The logic used there in my mind is adding to what the Bible says and the comments about Sodom and Gomorrah really miss what that story is all about from my reading of the story.