Topless Danes

[Angel4Truth]

Wisdom comes with age??????

Maybe yopu need to learn your history.

Mozart published is fisrt opera at 14. Eward Rutledge signed the Declaration of Independence at the ripe old age of 26. Jonathan Dayton was also 26 when he signed the Constitution. And Albert Einstein had his most productive year in 1905 when he was--you guessed it--26.

Now can we PLEASE get back to the OP??????

Perhaps you need to learn the difference between wisdom and knowledge/talent. Wisdom is knowing how to use what you know in the most profitable way - didnt motzart die young as well from overwork - couldnt pay his bills and make poor decisions? I rest my case.

 

[Nadiine]

Of course it isn't. The stigma attached to it, however, is. Again, this is undeniable fact.

We never suggested that the breasts aren't seen as a sexual stimulus. But so are the pectorals in a male.

It is not STIGMA, if it were, porn wouldn't continue to sell, people buy porn becuz they get off to it - THOSE BODY PARTS AROUSE THEM NATURALLY.

It isn't stigma! God created us with these sexual features of interest - the bible already mentioned the female breasts satisfying her husband.
It is a sexual organ that men predominantly are interested in sexually.

Sorry but I'm about done with this at this point in this direction - if it's learned, then you can UNLEARN every sexual point of arousal and stop attractions to females completely just by viewing her genitals 24/7.

They are 'hardwiring', not learned or unlearned.

 

[Tissue]

It is not STIGMA, if it were, porn wouldn't continue to sell, people buy porn becuz they get off to it - THOSE BODY PARTS AROUSE THEM NATURALLY.

For the second time, none of us are denying this fact. Whatever you're reading into our position is a complete misunderstanding. Our argument is that there is no descriptive standard for modesty found in Scripture, and that which is present in our society is simply a construct. This is evidently clear when you consider the examples Archivist brought up (which you shrug off as irrelevant).

 

[Nadiine]

For the second time, none of us are denying this fact. Whatever you're reading into our position is a complete misunderstanding. Our argument is that there is no descriptive standard for modesty found in Scripture, and that which is present in our society is simply a construct. This is evidently clear when you consider the examples Archivist brought up (which you shrug off as irrelevant).

Yes I did go thru this on another level --

Since several here have spoken up and made points which essentially say: "men lust after women who are clothed, so they'de have to wear Burka's in order not to have men lust after them".

So I ask you, is "MODESTY" taking off MORE clothing - as in being 1/2 naked? or is modesty having more clothes on so as not to lead his eye to sexual features or more of the skin so he can see even more of the female body unclothed?

Yes modesty IS defined in the bible - you are redefining it with liberalism today - that's the problem here. It's relativism/subjectivism rehashed.
"your meaning of modesty isn't my modesty". But God says what's in the heart is what gets displayed outwardly.
Maybe you can list all the fine and upstanding Christian women of history and currently today who are topless sunbathers & go around topless.... or promote partial female nudity in their teachings.

The fact that it is NOT prevalent in Christianity whatsoever should be a good indicator as to the nature of this topic.

We KNOW when men are attracted to us and how to attract them - with what (even if just for them to take 2nd looks); I spent most of my youth and early adult life doing just that and it works. We KNOW.

And Christians know what God requires in what we should & shouldn't be revealing. That is a big part of this issue. Not only what the bible says that standard is, but knowing the Spirit's leading in our daily lives in how we dress.

I'm not talking about types of clothing (skirt, pants, blouse, tight sweater, etc.), I'm referring to exposure and how much of our body is exposed. Huge amounts of cleavage is inviting men to directly look your chest - not on your face - the focus is THE BODY.
women do this on purpose, it's advertising. That is what God is against - leading men to LOOK at those body parts.

How can you say we can't know what modesty is as a godly standard? It's obvious. God isn't so rigid that he puts us in uniforms, but he gives us the source of the issue - asking ourselves, WHAT WE ARE TRYING TO DO with our clothing.
That means everything - and causing others to stumble is a sin

 

[Nadiine]

Two things: Why is it that when I'm desensitized to nudity it's because I'm an unrepentant sinner or whatever was said, but a male gynecologist is desensitized to it it's a gift from God? That doesn't make sense. And it doesn't matter anyway, because the entire point is: If you are desensitized, you do not think lust upon seeing someone naked simply because they are naked.

On this silly age/wisdom debate: Didn't Jesus start preaching at the tender age of twelve? You know, when his parents accidentally left him behind and had to go back and get him and found him sitting and preaching to a bunch of adults who marveled at his wisdom? I can find a verse if no one knows what I'm talking about.

Um, I don't recall calling you an unrepentant sinner, did I?
I can't exactly know that about you personally...

About Jesus, He did not teach formally as a Rabbi until 30 - He was also God incarnate and perfect...hardly the credentials of human kids that age.

 

[white dove]

The point that is being ignored in this thread is that if no one covered up and we all walked around naked except when it's too cold, then guess what? No one would care. It would no longer be a lust issue.

Clothing protects our bodies from the elements and from external irritants which can be harmful to us. I agree with the first woman who posted about clothing essentially being necessary after the fall. On so many levels, clothing just makes sense.

I also believe that women are not responsible for men's sexual desires.

I agree. We're not responsible for men's desires and their responses to us - just as we are not responsible for anyone's response to us. However, we are responsible for either encouraging people to stumble or working to build them up in a Christ-like mannner. We are well aware of the temptations out there in this world. Forgoing all of that speaks of naivate.

But then, I also have a different definition of lust. I don't believe a man looking at an attractive woman and wanting to sleep with her is wrong. It's natural, and how they were made. It's when they allow that desire to override their self control and actually go after her with the intention of sleeping with her that it becomes lust. That's my opinion, anyway. But when they notice a woman, appreciate her beauty, and then shrug it off and go back to what they were doing? How is that wrong? Don't we all do that, even women?

How does that make any sense? A man can appreciate a woman's beautiful body, lust after her in his heart by desiring to have sex with her... but if he crosses the line by actively persuing her, then it is considered lust? The Bible clearly points to lusting in one's heart as wrong. It is a heart issue - it is not an eyeball issue. If a man or woman desires to have sex with someone and that becomes the norm for them -to see other men or women and desire sex- wouldn't that obviously impact their physical reaction to those desires?

 

[Nadiine]

Clothing protects our bodies from the elements and from external irritants which can be harmful to us. I agree with the first woman who posted about clothing essentially being necessary after the fall. On so many levels, clothing just makes sense.

agreed - I also made a comment earlier about sunbathing. Anyone laying out in the sun these days is asking to need leather conditioner in a few years time instead of body lotion.
NOT a good idea even with good sun protection anymore.

I agree. We're not responsible for men's desires and their responses to us - just as we are not responsible for anyone's response to us. However, we are responsible for either encouraging people to stumble or working to build them up in a Christ-like mannner. We are well aware of the temptations out there in this world. Forgoing all of that speaks of naivate.

I disagree with this to an extent. When we put our clothes on or buy our clothes, what are we thinking?
"this will get me attention"? If so, our motive in wearing and buying it was to lure a guy to look at and take interest in our body -

It's all about our motives - and that is what God judges Christians on. We are responsible for how we might lead others to be tempted if we're purposely showing our cleavage or wearing skin tight pants or short mini skirts with spiked heels...
What is our intent in wearing that? comfort? for our relatives? friends?

That's where stumbling comes into play and we are responsible for that.
When we aren't responsible is if we wear a common pair of flip flops and some guy with a foot fettish is having sick fantasies about our feet as we innocently sit there reading a book.

 

[white dove]

I disagree with this to an extent. When we put our clothes on or buy our clothes, what are we thinking?
"this will get me attention"? If so, our motive in wearing and buying it was to lure a guy to look at and take interest in our body -

It's all about our motives - and that is what God judges Christians on. We are responsible for how we might lead others to be tempted if we're purposely showing our cleavage or wearing skin tight pants or short mini skirts with spiked heels...
What is our intent in wearing that? comfort? for our relatives? friends?

That's where stumbling comes into play and we are responsible for that.
When we aren't responsible is if we wear a common pair of flip flops and some guy with a foot fettish is having sick fantasies about our feet as we innocently sit there reading a book.

I think that we both agree on this, actually. I hinted along these lines in my earlier post - at least, I hope that's how I came across.

We can't -and should never think that we can- control other people's actions... but we have a say when it comes to our own. We can control the positive or negative influence we impress on other people, which affect their subsequent reactions - considering everything; human nature/sinful nature/spiritual maturity/heart/mind/body/everything. Being sensitive to other's needs and putting others ahead of ourselves is very important - within reason of course.


Good point on the sunbathing! Oh and it's funny you mention the foot fetish. I know someone who was at the store, shopping... when some guy just walks up to her and thanks her for having such beautiful feet. Her feet really made his day...

 

[catlover]

Speaking of feet it used to be considered risque for a man to see a woman's ankles.

Elbows were considered erotic that is why it's considered rude to put them on the table now.

 

[Angel4Truth]

Im wondering why it matters what the world thinks compared to what God thinks or would have for His children?

 

[HighwayMan]

Any photographic evidence of the liberties this law allows?

For, you know, educational purposes...

 

[catlover]

Im wondering why it matters what the world thinks compared to what God thinks or would have for His children?

I am sure The Victorians believed God would be upset if a man saw a woman's ankles or a person's elbows.

 

[Angel4Truth]

Good for them - im sure that God was quite pleased that they worried more about what He thought than the world thought.

 

[white dove]

Speaking of feet it used to be considered risque for a man to see a woman's ankles.

Elbows were considered erotic that is why it's considered rude to put them on the table now.

I elbow my meals all the time... maybe that's why I don't go to fancy restaurants.

 

[Nadiine]

I am sure The Victorians believed God would be upset if a man saw a woman's ankles or a person's elbows.

So I imagine a pair of women's bare breasts would be alot more appropriate

Speaking of feet it used to be considered risque for a man to see a woman's ankles.

Elbows were considered erotic that is why it's considered rude to put them on the table now.

It shows you how men lust and are visually stimulated by women; they were HONEST back then, that more skin that was shown, the more they were enticed.

So, lets just take off our shirts

Im wondering why it matters what the world thinks compared to what God thinks or would have for His children?

Exactly - this was my point earlier, all they keep doing is pointing to other people & cultures that go topless,
WHO CARES, you follow scripture first.
it says modesty in moderation in propriety with Godliness.
Real simple to me.

If they all jumped off a bridge, do we follow becuz they all leaped off?

Good for them - im sure that God was quite pleased that they worried more about what He thought than the world thought.

I doubt God will be up in heaven judging them saying "you didn't show enough skin, I'm dissappointed and taking rewards away for your stupidity and prudishness"

LOL

 

[Nadiine]

I think that we both agree on this, actually. I hinted along these lines in my earlier post - at least, I hope that's how I came across.

We can't -and should never think that we can- control other people's actions... but we have a say when it comes to our own. We can control the positive or negative influence we impress on other people, which affect their subsequent reactions - considering everything; human nature/sinful nature/spiritual maturity/heart/mind/body/everything. Being sensitive to other's needs and putting others ahead of ourselves is very important - within reason of course.

Good point on the sunbathing! Oh and it's funny you mention the foot fetish. I know someone who was at the store, shopping... when some guy just walks up to her and thanks her for having such beautiful feet. Her feet really made his day...

LOL oh how sick.
I knew a guy in a chat room who would come in and do his darndest to get us on subjects about feet. It turned into a huge joke hahha.

But hey, I LOVE a good strappy sandal with a nice heel and pretty toenail polish!!!

Ya, I see these people baking out in the sun wondering, "what are you thinking?!"
They end up looking like leatherface from the Texas Chainsaw Massacre in about 5-7 years. I also worry about breast cancer too with the melanoma's.

oh well... it's their life.

 

[YourChild]

Well, I'm a woman and I've always wondered why there was such a double standard when it comes to modesty. Why are women held to much stricter standards than men are? If a woman wishes to go topless on the beach, I don't see a problem with it. Men do it all the time, and no one says anything about it. If the men can do it, why can't the women?

because men's chest are flat vs women, which are round and bubbly

 

[Nadiine]

because men's chest are flat vs women, which are round and bubbly

bubbly ROFLOL

is this where I say no they are NOT all like that?

:o

 

[Angel4Truth]

Men are on the most part more physically stimulated - they go for eye candy - most women - are more mentally stimulated. Thats why.

 

[Angel4Truth]

Playboy doesnt sell well because of the articles or because topless women are "just a thing."