Toddlers and Guns

[civilwarbuff]

The NRA will bury it any chance they get.

And the anti 2nd amendment lobby will promote it any chance they get......so what is the problem?

 

[Mudinyeri]

Whatever. It is still true. http://abcnews.go.com/Health/cdc-ban-gun-research-caused-lasting-damage/story?id=18909347

... and I don't think you understand the definition of "true."

 

[Nithavela]

This debate is getting a bit childish.

Continue.

 

[Mudinyeri]

This debate is getting a bit childish.

Continue.

Subtle.

 

[cow451]

I don't think you understand plowing ... or the NRA.

I understand the NRA pretty well. They make no secret about their opposition to any effort to get accurate data on the negative side of firearm death an injury.

 

[Mudinyeri]

I understand the NRA pretty well. They make no secret about their opposition to any effort to get accurate data on the negative side of firearm death an injury.

Yup. That's why they created the biggest program on the face of the planet to try to keep kids from being injured or killed due to the actions (or inaction) of careless adult gun owners.

That's why they help fund hunter safety programs.

That's whey they have developed courses for adults on safe handling of firearms.

Yup. You got it.

 

[iluvatar5150]

Yup. That's why they created the biggest program on the face of the planet to try to keep kids from being injured or killed due to the actions (or inaction) of careless adult gun owners.

That's why they help fund hunter safety programs.

That's whey they have developed courses for adults on safe handling of firearms.

Yup. You got it.

Eddie Eagle is not research.

They're fine with safety, so long as they get to control the terms of those safety programs. Do you deny that they've moved to stop government funding of firearms research?

 

[civilwarbuff]

I need to ask a serious question: Why are YOU guys/gals so opposed to firearms and firearm ownership? Can anyone give a straight-up non-political answer? Please don't fall back on liberal one liners and canned responses......

 

[Nithavela]

I need to ask a serious question: Why are YOU guys/gals so opposed to firearms and firearm ownership? Can anyone give a straight-up non-political answer? Please don't fall back on liberal one liners and canned responses......

Seriously loaded question, perhaps.

I, personally, am not opposed to firearms and firearm ownership, but I do believe that a higher standard of security, regulated by the law, could save many lives.

 

[Mudinyeri]

Eddie Eagle is not research.

They're fine with safety, so long as they get to control the terms of those safety programs. Do you deny that they've moved to stop government funding of firearms research?

I never suggested that Eddie Eagle was research. If we're going to have a meaningful discussion, you really need to read what I write.

Does the NRA control the Hunter Safety program in the U.S.?

As far as "firearms research" goes ... I highly recommend reading this thread in its entirety before we go any further. (We seem to have a recurring theme.)

 

[Mudinyeri]

Seriously loaded question, perhaps.

I, personally, am not opposed to firearms and firearm ownership, but I do believe that a higher standard of security, regulated by the law, could save many lives.

Do you understand the existing level of firearms regulation in the U.S.?

 

[civilwarbuff]

Seriously loaded question, perhaps.

I, personally, am not opposed to firearms and firearm ownership, but I do believe that a higher standard of security, regulated by the law, could save many lives.

Can you give some examples of security and relations that you believe would work?

 

[Nithavela]

Can you give some examples of security and relations that you believe would work?

I already did so in this thread.

Basically, the mandatory storing of weapons and ammunition in seperate, securely locked safes.

Also, mandatory gun safety courses for everyone who buys his first weapons would seem sensible to me.

 

[civilwarbuff]

I already did so in this thread.

Basically, the mandatory storing of weapons and ammunition in seperate, securely locked safes.

Also, mandatory gun safety courses for everyone who buys his first weapons would seem sensible to me.

50 years ago I had my hunters safety course (I was 11); it was run by the NRA and mandated (because of age) by the state of Minnesota.

As for gun safes.....4 nights ago 5 houses down from me at 8:30 in the evening I hear tires squealing followed by bang-bang-bang-bang.....and we are not talking firecrackers here. A few dozen times a year I get awoken at night to the sounds of pop-pop-pop....etc....you get the picture. Though no minors live with me, expecting me to keep my 9mm and ammo locked up is unreasonable from my viewpoint. Violent crime is not as prevalent in Germany/Europe as it is here.....different culture....not right or wrong....just different.

 

[Mudinyeri]

Before any more mis-information gets spread around on this field that has been plowed, let's get a few things straight:

1. Purchasing a firearm in the U.S. from a licensed firearm dealer (commonly referred to as a FFL) requires a federal background check.
2. Purchasing a firearm in the U.S. at a gun show requires a federal background check. There is no gun show loophole.
3. Purchasing a firearm in the U.S. with the intent of giving or selling it to a prohibited person is referred to as a "straw purchase" and is a federal crime. (Currently, the feds prosecute almost none of these crimes.)
4. Firearms are one of the most heavily regulated consumer goods in the U.S. despite the fact that those who have acquired their firearms legally, commit very few firearms crimes (approximately 3% of violent gun crimes are committed with legally purchased guns)
5. Approximately 1/3 of the adult U.S. population are legal gun owners

 

[Nithavela]

50 years ago I had my hunters safety course (I was 11); it was run by the NRA and mandated (because of age) by the state of Minnesota.

Sensible, though I think 11 is a bit young to start hunting.

As for gun safes.....4 nights ago 5 houses down from me at 8:30 in the evening I hear tires squealing followed by bang-bang-bang-bang.....and we are not talking firecrackers here. A few dozen times a year I get awoken at night to the sounds of pop-pop-pop....etc....you get the picture. Though no minors live with me, expecting me to keep my 9mm and ammo locked up is unreasonable from my viewpoint. Violent crime is not as prevalent in Germany/Europe as it is here.....different culture....not right or wrong....just different.

I think I've once read that more homeowners are killed with their own guns than burglars by said homeowners.

And I'd say that a culture where several times a year, firefights break out has plenty wrong with it.

 

[Mudinyeri]

I already did so in this thread.

Basically, the mandatory storing of weapons and ammunition in seperate, securely locked safes.

Also, mandatory gun safety courses for everyone who buys his first weapons would seem sensible to me.

Since you don't live in the U.S., a couple more points. Most of our "gun crime" is committed in the states and municipalities with the most gun regulation and is gang-related. This is not a gun issue. This is a lawlessness/violence/gang/drug issue.

All 50 states in the U.S. require hunters under the age of 31 to take a hunter safety course. The U.S. hunter safety program (I am an instructor) is the largest and most sweeping firearms safety training program in the world. Firearms injuries while hunting have dropped precipitously since the program began.

 

[Mountain_Girl406]

Firearms aren't a huge issue for me politically, but if I had to chose a side, I'd line up more with the anti gun side for reasons that might be in the minority.
My understanding is that a firearm unsecured in the home is more likely to be used against a household member in some way ( criminal using victim's gun, gun used for suicide, gun accidentally injuring or killing someone ) than used for successful self defence or defence of life of another member of the household.
I'm also not a supporter of hunting. So, I don't see a lot of reason for personal firearm ownership other than target shooting. I'm not in any hurry to enact gun bans but I don't personally see the need to arm up that many have.
I do think that if one had guns and children they should be required to keep them secure not only to help prevent accidents but also youth suicides, a problem that is epidemic where I live.
I don't know if the Eddie Eagle program addresses youth suicide prevention and the role easy access to guns plays in this, but I hope it does.

 

[Mudinyeri]

And I'd say that a culture where several times a year, firefights break out has plenty wrong with it.

You are correct but it is not the "gun culture" that drives the firefights. Guns are only a tool, not the root cause.

 

[Nithavela]

All 50 states in the U.S. require hunters under the age of 31 to take a hunter safety course. The U.S. hunter safety program (I am an instructor) is the largest and most sweeping firearms safety training program in the world. Firearms injuries while hunting have dropped precipitously since the program began.

We are not talking about hunters, but firearm owners in general though, aren't we? So this is a red herring.