To tithe, or not to tithe. That is the question!

[Frogster]

Mansions? MANSIONS? MANSIONS??!!

You're one funny dude, Pinetree. I've never seen anyone who cares quite so much about other people's stuff.

Paul cared, he called em wolves. Check out acts 20, paul stressed working, as he warned of wolves coming. Why?

because he knew if the rules of the church were, that leaders don't extract and burden, and for the most part worked as he told those elders to do in 20, wolves leave, they don"t really love the church, that's why paul said in 2 cor 11, and 2 cor 12 he was showing his love for them, by working, juxtaposed to the wolves. They would not stick around, if they had to work, they would rather just fleece the little sheep.

A wolf takes from the poor, while he lives high.

 

[probinson]

Paul ...

Let me stop you there, Pinetree; I've read Paul. You sound nothing like Paul.

 

[Frogster]

Let me stop you there, Pinetree; I've read Paul. You sound nothing like Paul.

stop getting personal please, and refute facts.

 

[Frogster]

2 Cor 12:14 Here for the third time I am ready to come to you. And I will not be a burden, for I seek not what is yours but you. For children are not obligated to save up for their parents, but parents for their children.

 

[Frogster]

a loving mother and father...no burden...


1 Thess 2:7 But we were gentle among you, like a nursing mother taking care of her own children. 8 So, being affectionately desirous of you, we were ready to share with you not only the gospel of God but also our own selves, because you had become very dear to us.

9 For you remember, brothers, our labor and toil: we worked night and day, that we might not be a burden to any of you, while we proclaimed to you the gospel of God. 10 You are witnesses, and God also, how holy and righteous and blameless was our conduct toward you believers. 11 For you know how, like a father with his children,

 

[probinson]

stop getting personal please, and refute facts.

Ah, the "personal" defense, right on cue.

You have no "facts", Pinetree. All you have is incessant complaining about mansions and BMW's, which if I am to believe what Jesus said about the mouth speaking out of the abundance of the heart, tells me that you must certainly have mansions and BMW's in your heart as much as you talk about them.

The fact is that I have already answered your question; ALL (Did you see it that time? ALL means ALL. That means pastors, leaders, children, poor people, rich people, etc.) ALL CHRISTIANS should be cheerful, generous givers, giving because it is in our nature to be givers. That's what I believe.

 

[Messy]

Year 7 - No tithing. Sabbath rest for land.

Do we have to keep the sabbath (saturday) out of grace? It's before (Genesis), in (10 commandments) and after the law (the gospels), so the principle is in God's heart. But Jesus worked on the Sabbath the works of His Father.
We have come into His rest when we were saved.
I have even tithed 10 % of my time, 2,4 hours. It's good to pray a lot, but I wonder where this is in the Bible. Paul prayed a lot more.
We don't live anymore, so it's His money and His time anyway. We only have to be good stewards.

 

[Frogster]

Ah, the "personal" defense, right on cue.

You have no "facts", Pinetree. All you have is incessant complaining about mansions and BMW's, which if I am to believe what Jesus said about the mouth speaking out of the abundance of the heart, tells me that you must certainly have mansions and BMW's in your heart as much as you talk about them.

The fact is that I have already answered your question; ALL (Did you see it that time? ALL means ALL. That means pastors, leaders, children, poor people, rich people, etc.) ALL CHRISTIANS should be cheerful, generous givers, giving because it is in our nature to be givers. That's what I believe.

have the majority of your posts been about the tither, or the recpient of the tithe, on tithe threads in general?

sooooo..ok to live in a mansion, drive a beemer, and demand money, or twist text to get it?

 

[Frogster]

Ah, the "personal" defense, right on cue.

You have no "facts", Pinetree. All you have is incessant complaining about mansions and BMW's, which if I am to believe what Jesus said about the mouth speaking out of the abundance of the heart, tells me that you must certainly have mansions and BMW's in your heart as much as you talk about them.

The fact is that I have already answered your question; ALL (Did you see it that time? ALL means ALL. That means pastors, leaders, children, poor people, rich people, etc.) ALL CHRISTIANS should be cheerful, generous givers, giving because it is in our nature to be givers. That's what I believe.

besides, that's how the tithe subject often is with everyone, the little tither always has his motives questioned, that can't be denied.

if u want to check the pastors motives, good!

 

[probinson]

Paul's instructions for generous giving (emphasis added);

2 Corinthians 9 (NIV)
There is no need for me to write to you about this service to the Lord’s people. For I know your eagerness to help, and I have been boasting about it to the Macedonians, telling them that since last year you in Achaia were ready to give; and your enthusiasm has stirred most of them to action. But I am sending the brothers in order that our boasting about you in this matter should not prove hollow, but that you may be ready, as I said you would be. For if any Macedonians come with me and find you unprepared, we—not to say anything about you—would be ashamed of having been so confident. So I thought it necessary to urge the brothers to visit you in advance and finish the arrangements for the generous gift you had promised. Then it will be ready as a generous gift, not as one grudgingly given.

Remember this: Whoever sows sparingly will also reap sparingly, and whoever sows generously will also reap generously. Each of you should give what you have decided in your heart to give, not reluctantly or under compulsion, for God loves a cheerful giver. And God is able to bless you abundantly, so that in all things at all times, having all that you need, you will abound in every good work. As it is written:

“They have freely scattered their gifts to the poor;
their righteousness endures forever.”

Now he who supplies seed to the sower and bread for food will also supply and increase your store of seed and will enlarge the harvest of your righteousness. You will be enriched in every way so that you can be generous on every occasion, and through us your generosity will result in thanksgiving to God.

This service that you perform is not only supplying the needs of the Lord’s people but is also overflowing in many expressions of thanks to God. Because of the service by which you have proved yourselves, others will praise God for the obedience that accompanies your confession of the gospel of Christ, and for your generosity in sharing with them and with everyone else. And in their prayers for you their hearts will go out to you, because of the surpassing grace God has given you.Thanks be to God for his indescribable gift!
​

This is how Paul encourages us all to give; A service to the Lord's people. Eager and willing to give with enthusiasm. Generous, cheerful giving, which results in thanksgiving to God.

 

[probinson]

have the majority of your posts been about the tither, or the recpient of the tithe, on tithe threads in general?

Hmmmm. This is the first time I've ever discussed tithing with you, "Frogster". Unless you were previously posting under another name, and now you've changed it for some reason. What name was that, and why did you change it?

sooooo..ok to live in a mansion, drive a beemer, and demand money, or twist text to get it?

Christmas is just around the corner you know. Maybe if you ask Santa for a mansion and a Beemer he'll bring them to you.

 

[Messy]

lol! u r totally wrong, it's not about me, it's about the greedy pastors the live in mansions, taking from poor people, even in local churches, the pastor can be earning 3-4 times more, than the old couple on a fixed income does, or a family guy raising kids does, that's totally wrong, and and you ca't refute all the text i posted about it!

None of this has anything to do with me..I am not in that system!

I am making a scriptural objective analysis here, and u can't refute that.

And I am also correct, on tithe threads, that pastor and his heart or actions are NEVER called to the carpet, only the sheep, and are they "cheerful"?

Who can be cheerful under the tax code of the church!

God spoke to Maurice Sklar about his love for money: My Journey of Faith and Suffering
As a result, he divorced money.

 

[Frogster]

Hmmmm. This is the first time I've ever discussed tithing with you, "Frogster". Unless you were previously posting under another name, and now you've changed it for some reason. What name was that, and why did you change it?





Christmas is just around the corner you know. Maybe if you ask Santa for a mansion and a Beemer he'll bring them to you.

u have not been posting on this thread yet? i am speaking generally here...i am not a jot and tittle guy, who remembers every little post.

 

[Frogster]

God spoke to Maurice Sklar about his love for money: My Journey of Faith and Suffering
As a result, he divorced money.

thanks for your thoughts.

 

[Frogster]

Hmmmm. This is the first time I've ever discussed tithing with you, "Frogster". Unless you were previously posting under another name, and now you've changed it for some reason. What name was that, and why did you change it?





Christmas is just around the corner you know. Maybe if you ask Santa for a mansion and a Beemer he'll bring them to you.

sooooo..ok to drive to beemer, and live in a masion, and use text to leverage tithe from poor people?

yes or no please?

 

[Frogster]

Hmmmm. This is the first time I've ever discussed tithing with you, "Frogster". Unless you were previously posting under another name, and now you've changed it for some reason. What name was that, and why did you change it?





Christmas is just around the corner you know. Maybe if you ask Santa for a mansion and a Beemer he'll bring them to you.

is this the first tithing thread u have ever been on, i don't mean with me, but is this the first thread?

 

[probinson]

u have not been posting on this thread yet?

Yes, I have. And I've been quite consistent in my message that what I am talking about pertains to ALL CHRISTIANS. I've even gone to the trouble of bolding, highlighting, coloring, italicizing and underlining it multiple times so you could see it, to no avail apparently.

 

[Frogster]

sooooo..ok to drive to beemer, and live in a masion, and use text to leverage tithe from poor people?

yes or no please?

 

[probinson]

sooooo..ok to drive to beemer, and live in a masion,

Yes.

and use text to leverage tithe from poor people?

No.

But when do you ever encourage cheerful, generous giving, Pinetree. I mean, we can drop this "Frogster" facade. Let's try to be honest for a moment; in all of the many incarnations you've taken on at CF when we've discussed this over the years, your focus is NEVER about generous giving. It is ALWAYS about BMW's, mansions and "high living". My focus is on generous giving, or more accurately, ALL CHRISTIANS giving cheerfully and generously as the Spirit leads.

I know that Jesus wasn't just blowing smoke when He said, "Out of the abundance of the heart, the mouth speaks." So when I talk to someone for years on a specific topic and the first words out of their mouths are "mansion" and "BMW", it exposes the abundance of their heart. I mean, it's one thing to talk about BMW's and mansions in the context of a discussion. It's another thing entirely to harp on it for years on end.

This is what my assessment is based upon; years of you incessantly complaining about how other people have nicer material possessions than you, hardly ever mentioning cheerful, generous giving, all under the laughable guise that this is somehow what Paul was factually saying in the "text".

OTOH, there are other people in this thread that I've never before spoklen to, but after one post, I could tell that they had a giving heart by the things they said, or more accurately, the abundance of their heart that came out when they spoke. They articulated quite well why they didn't agree with tithing as its taught today, but then also proceeded to say why giving generously as we determine in our hearts should be the model for us. They didn't whine and moan about pastor's having nicer cars than them, and mjere hit the proverbial nail smack dab on the head by classifying that as "bitter, envying pride". But this is all I ever get from you; justification of why people should not give, which is 100% contrary to what Paul actually said concerning giving.

I don't expect any of this to mean anything to you. I'm convinced that no matter what I say, you'll continue to be upset that people have bigger houses and nicer cars than you do. Truth be told with all the games that you like to play, if it were just you and I talking privately, I'd have stopped discussing things with you long ago. But I know that countless people read these threads, which is the only reason I continue to respond.

 

[Frogster]

Yes.



No.

But when do you ever encourage cheerful, generous giving, Pinetree. I mean, we can drop this "Frogster" facade. Let's try to be honest for a moment; in all of the many incarnations you've taken on at CF when we've discussed this over the years, your focus is NEVER about generous giving. It is ALWAYS about BMW's, mansions and "high living". My focus is on generous giving, or more accurately, ALL CHRISTIANS giving cheerfully and generously as the Spirit leads.

I know that Jesus wasn't just blowing smoke when He said, "Out of the abundance of the heart, the mouth speaks." So when I talk to someone for years on a specific topic and the first words out of their mouths are "mansion" and "BMW", it exposes the abundance of their heart. I mean, it's one thing to talk about BMW's and mansions in the context of a discussion. It's another thing entirely to harp on it for years on end.

This is what my assessment is based upon; years of you incessantly complaining about how other people have nicer material possessions than you, hardly ever mentioning cheerful, generous giving, all under the laughable guise that this is somehow what Paul was factually saying in the "text".

OTOH, there are other people in this thread that I've never before spoklen to, but after one post, I could tell that they had a giving heart by the things they said, or more accurately, the abundance of their heart that came out when they spoke. They articulated quite well why they didn't agree with tithing as its taught today, but then also proceeded to say why giving generously as we determine in our hearts should be the model for us. They didn't whine and moan about pastor's having nicer cars than them, and mjere hit the proverbial nail smack dab on the head by classifying that as "bitter, envying pride". But this is all I ever get from you; justification of why people should not give, which is 100% contrary to what Paul actually said concerning giving.

I don't expect any of this to mean anything to you. I'm convinced that no matter what I say, you'll continue to be upset that people have bigger houses and nicer cars than you do. Truth be told with all the games that you like to play, if it were just you and I talking privately, I'd have stopped discussing things with you long ago. But I know that countless people read these threads, which is the only reason I continue to respond.

i always speak of the poor person, in generalities, who give to the beemer mansion pastor, unless you can show otherwise.

u don't know where i give, i don't blow a trumpet about my generousity.

show me where i am wrong, i always stress paul working not to burden, and how it's wrong for pastors to extract, that is a fact, and my freedom to do so, so again, uu r getting personal..lol.