To tithe, or not to tithe. That is the question! (2)

[ByronArn]

This thread was split automatically after 1000 replies and this thread has been automatically created.
The old thread automatically closed is here: "To tithe, or not to tithe. That is the question!"

 

[WordofHisPower]

Here's some scriptures on tithing, including pre-law and post law.
Tithing can be done as a form of worship.
Those who feel it's an obligation are missing the spirit of thankfulness and the spirit of giving behind tithing.

NON-LAW
*Abraham tithes (10%) on something he won. Hebrews 7:2, Genesis 14:20

*Jacob tithes (10%) of all the Lord gives him. Genesis 28:22

*NT tithe (10%) of all that you possess. Luke 18:12

*NT Pharisee tithe 10% and Christ said to continue doing it. Matthew 23:23

*Honor the Lord with all your possession. Proverbs 3:9

*NT tithing through Christ. Hebrews 6:20 and Hebrews 7:1-28

LAW
*Lay aside a tithe of your increase for the Levite and the poor. Remove it from your house and give it. Deuteronomy 26:12-13

*Tithe (10%) is holy to the Lord. Leviticus 27:30

*The Israelites brought a tithe of everything, including produce. 2 Chronicles 31:5

1st tithe to support those doing the Lord's work. Leviticus 27:30, Numbers 8

2nd tithe to take family on yearly feast in God's presence. Deuteronomy 14:22-27

3rd tithe is the 2 year poor tithe to look after the poor. Deuteronomy 14:28-29

Tithe of the produce of the land to the Levites. Nehemiah 10:37

Tithe of the tithe to the storehouse by the Levites. Nehemiah 10:38

Malachi tithe into the storehouse. Malachi 3:10

There's no command from God or Christ to stop tithing.

 

[GaryArnold]

This is really sad to see so many that continue taking scripture out of context. And to make a statement that there is no command from God or Christ to stop tithing merely shows that you don't understand the change from the Old Testament to the New Testament.

Gentiles were NEVER under the law. Christians were NEVER under the law. Gentiles NEVER tithed. The NEW TESTAMENT teaches Christians how we are to live. NOT the Old Testament. NOT before the law.

The Old Testament law didn't end for gentiles or Christians. It ended for those under the law.

The New Testament goes FORWARD. It doesn't take us back to the old.

 

[ByTheSpirit]

This is really sad to see so many that continue taking scripture out of context. And to make a statement that there is no command from God or Christ to stop tithing merely shows that you don't understand the change from the Old Testament to the New Testament.

Gentiles were NEVER under the law. Christians were NEVER under the law. Gentiles NEVER tithed. The NEW TESTAMENT teaches Christians how we are to live. NOT the Old Testament. NOT before the law.

The Old Testament law didn't end for gentiles or Christians. It ended for those under the law.

The New Testament goes FORWARD. It doesn't take us back to the old.

 

[jobbomb6]

Tithe 10% of your income and that's all you need to do really.

 

[GaryArnold]

Tithe 10% of your income and that's all you need to do really.

Here we go again. NO scripture to back up your senseless comment.

I might mention also that your sentence doesn't even make sense. Since tithe means a tenth, what you have said is to
Tithe (take a tenth part) 10% of your income. In other words take a tenth of ten percent of your income. That = 1% of your income.

 

[Svt4Him]

Here's some scriptures on tithing, including pre-law and post law.
Tithing can be done as a form of worship.
Those who feel it's an obligation are missing the spirit of thankfulness and the spirit of giving behind tithing.

NON-LAW
*Abraham tithes (10%) on something he won. Hebrews 7:2, Genesis 14:20

*Jacob tithes (10%) of all the Lord gives him. Genesis 28:22

*NT tithe (10%) of all that you possess. Luke 18:12

*NT Pharisee tithe 10% and Christ said to continue doing it. Matthew 23:23

*Honor the Lord with all your possession. Proverbs 3:9

*NT tithing through Christ. Hebrews 6:20 and Hebrews 7:1-28

LAW
*Lay aside a tithe of your increase for the Levite and the poor. Remove it from your house and give it. Deuteronomy 26:12-13

*Tithe (10%) is holy to the Lord. Leviticus 27:30

*The Israelites brought a tithe of everything, including produce. 2 Chronicles 31:5

1st tithe to support those doing the Lord's work. Leviticus 27:30, Numbers 8

2nd tithe to take family on yearly feast in God's presence. Deuteronomy 14:22-27

3rd tithe is the 2 year poor tithe to look after the poor. Deuteronomy 14:28-29

Tithe of the produce of the land to the Levites. Nehemiah 10:37

Tithe of the tithe to the storehouse by the Levites. Nehemiah 10:38

Malachi tithe into the storehouse. Malachi 3:10

There's no command from God or Christ to stop tithing.

Really? First off, when did the tithe become money? Who was to tithe? To whom did the tithe go? Why? Has that changed? What is the storehouse? And does tithe 10% of all you get apply to everyone, or was it said to someone who was to tithe on their tithe? If so, who would that be?

 

[BeforeThereWas]

Really? First off, when did the tithe become money? Who was to tithe? To whom did the tithe go? Why? Has that changed? What is the storehouse? And does tithe 10% of all you get apply to everyone, or was it said to someone who was to tithe on their tithe? If so, who would that be?

I asked that person, and another, to provide explanations on each verse they feel supports their position, and to explain from each verse WHY they think each supports their position.

To date, nothing has been forthcoming.

Anyone can weave together a tapestry of disjointed verses ripped from their context and applied completely outside the confines of God's clear predefined limitations and clarifications.

Very sad indeed. I figured the request would go ignored. Fear is the only reasonable explanation as to why such requests remain ignored.

For anyone to say Abraham "won" something is completely meaningless. That's a word utterly unknown to that section of scripture. Abraham's very actions clearly show us he had no intention of keeping property he knew never belonged to him in the first place. He came all the way back, hauling all those people's property with him.

I continue wondering why anyone would think Abraham a man of such low caliber as to keep property he had retrieved from marauding thieves. He clearly stated his intentions from the beginning, which was to retrieve his nephew, not go after wealth originally belonging to others.

Who among you in this thread would take possession of other people's property and leave the victims sitting in the dust with almost nothing left to their name?

And yet some who claim to love the Lord dare assume Abraham the kind of man who would do such evil unto others. How sad indeed.

Why so many harbor such evil in their hearts, with such a dim, low view of such a great man as Abraham, whom Christ Jesus held in high esteem, I have no clue. Any man of God would love to have God's praise of them as had been spoken of Abraham in Gen. 26, and yet fleshly people continue painting Abraham as a man with no greater morals and stature of character than a common pagan.

Shame on all of you who assume such evil in your hearts against a man you've never even met!!!!!!

BTW

 

[branchofthevine]

Something that I wonder is what exactly do you mean by Tithe?

Give money in the offering basket when it is passed around on Sunday? That is it?
Is that giving to the Church? Is that giving to God?
is giving money to the organization called the local Church what tithing really is?


How about using that money instead to give away freely. Give it to the poor, invest in soup kitchens, or pay for stranger's meals and other activities like that. It seems to me that that sort of freely giving in love is something that pleases God far more than giving 10% in your offering basket.

Because who is the Church? Isn't it the people? Shouldn't you then Tithe by using that money to help people? Help other Christians and those who need it?

 

[WordofHisPower]

The tithe for NT believers.

It's 10% to the poor, or the work of the Lord, which include missions, outreach.

If you don't know where to give, ask the Lord to lead you. He'll show you where to tithe.

I tithe to my fellowship and they distribute the money to outreach and the poor. We don't have a building to support.

The tithe is a privilege and a blessing. Those who do it, know by experience how true this is.

If you don't want to give, then don't. In the NT we aren't under law or compulsion.

 

[WordofHisPower]

Something that I wonder is what exactly do you mean by Tithe?

Give money in the offering basket when it is passed around on Sunday? That is it?
Is that giving to the Church? Is that giving to God?
is giving money to the organization called the local Church what tithing really is?


How about using that money instead to give away freely. Give it to the poor, invest in soup kitchens, or pay for stranger's meals and other activities like that. It seems to me that that sort of freely giving in love is something that pleases God far more than giving 10% in your offering basket.

Because who is the Church? Isn't it the people? Shouldn't you then Tithe by using that money to help people? Help other Christians and those who need it?

There's tithes, alms to the poor, and offerings. It's not a law in the NT, it's a grace. Christ said it's more blessed to give than receive. Acts 20:35

The reason to give is to help the poor (alms) and to spread the gospel. God'll show you how to best do that.

A person's salvation is the highest priority. If you spend all your money to feed them but don't share the gospel with them they'll go to hell with full bellies. God'll give you wisdom if you ask.

 

[WordofHisPower]

Just food for thought. Those who tithe have experienced the truth of this verse.

Proverbs 11:24
One gives freely, yet grows all the richer; another withholds what he should give, and only suffers want.

 

[WordofHisPower]

Really? First off, when did the tithe become money? Who was to tithe? To whom did the tithe go? Why? Has that changed? What is the storehouse? And does tithe 10% of all you get apply to everyone, or was it said to someone who was to tithe on their tithe? If so, who would that be?

Deuteronomy 14:24-26 says the tithe may be converted to money.

In the OT God gave all the Israelites land as their inheritance (except the Levites). This means all the Israelites had an income from the land and were to tithe 10% of what the land produced. Those with little land (low-middle income) or much land (high income) all tithed. IOW, those with an income tithed.

The tithes went to those who had no land/income which was the Levites (who served the Lord and the people) and the poor (widows, orphans, aliens).

OT wage earners were those with no land/income. If possible, they worked for the big land owners and were to be paid each night so they had something to buy food with, which was about all they were paid for a day's labor.

(The small land owners couldn't afford to hire workers. They worked their land themselves.)

Taking a wage earner's coat for pledge was considered wicked because wage earners generally had only what they wore on their backs.

The wage earners of the OT would be like the homeless jobless of the USA who scrounge each day to come up with shelter and something to eat.

See the book of Ruth for a clear picture of what it was like for those with no land.

Today the demographic has changed. People generally derive their income from a business or a job rather than land. Wage earners and business owners may earn as much or more than the landowners of the OT.

The only thing that hasn't changed is there's still the poor and those who serve the Lord. They still need our support, just as the OT Levites and the poor.

 

[New_Wineskin]

Something that I wonder is what exactly do you mean by Tithe?

I mentioned this on the first page of the thread . Because the OP was vague , we now have over 1000 replies . Of course , even with a specific definition in an OP , people would always reply using a different definition and cause the same replies as sidetracks to the thread .

Has not anyone brought up that "Hebrews" states that we already paid the tithe through faith through our father in the faith , Abraham ? Does it matter what Scriptures are used as people always spit on passages the alternate side uses in "discussion? ?

 

[New_Wineskin]

Deuteronomy 14:24-26 says the tithe may be converted to money.

Ah yes ... this is why I doubt the honesty of any christian claiming the importance of the Scriptures ...

Any tithes ( food ) that were converted to money were to be converted back to food upon reaching the destination . It was a temporary state . The food was then to be primarily eaten by the one with the tithe and their household .

22 Be sure to set aside a tenth of all that your fields produce each year. 23Eat the tithe of your grain, new wine and olive oil, and the firstborn of your herds and flocks in the presence of the Lord your God at the place he will choose as a dwelling for his Name, so that you may learn to revere the Lord your God always. 24 But if that place is too distant and you have been blessed by the Lord your God and cannot carry your tithe (because the place where the Lord will choose to put his Name is so far away), 25 then exchange your tithe for silver, and take the silver with you and go to the place the Lord your God will choose. 26 Use the silver to buy whatever you like: cattle, sheep, wine or other fermented drink, or anything you wish. Then you and your household shall eat there in the presence of the Lord your God and rejoice. 27 And do not neglect the Levites living in your towns, for they have no allotment or inheritance of their own.
28 At the end of every three years, bring all the tithes of that year’s produce and store it in your towns, 29 so that the Levites (who have no allotment or inheritance of their own) and the foreigners, the fatherless and the widows who live in your towns may come and eat and be satisfied, and so that the Lord your God may bless you in all the work of your hands.

 

[WordofHisPower]

Ah yes ... this is why I doubt the honesty of any christian claiming the importance of the Scriptures ...

Any tithes ( food ) that were converted to money were to be converted back to food upon reaching the destination . It was a temporary state . The food was then to be primarily eaten by the one with the tithe and their household .

In the OT God gave all the Israelites land as their inheritance (except the Levites). This means all the Israelites had an income from the land and were to tithe 10% of what the land produced. Those with little land (low-middle income) or much land (high income) all tithed. IOW, those with an income tithed.

The tithes went to those who had no land/income which was the Levites (who served the Lord and the people) and the poor (widows, orphans, aliens).

OT wage earners were those with no land/income. If possible, they worked for the big land owners and were to be paid each night so they had something to buy food with, which was about all they were paid for a day's labor.

(The small land owners couldn't afford to hire workers. They worked their land themselves.)

Taking a wage earner's coat for pledge was considered wicked because wage earners generally had only what they wore on their backs.

The wage earners of the OT would be like the homeless jobless of the USA who scrounge each day to come up with shelter and something to eat.

See the book of Ruth for a clear picture of what it was like for those with no land.

Today the demographic has changed. People generally derive their income from a business or a job rather than land. Wage earners and business owners may earn as much or more than the landowners of the OT.

The only thing that hasn't changed is there's still the poor and those who serve the Lord. They still need our support, just as the OT Levites and the poor.

 

[Frogster]

There's tithes, alms to the poor, and offerings. It's not a law in the NT, it's a grace. Christ said it's more blessed to give than receive. Acts 20:35

The reason to give is to help the poor (alms) and to spread the gospel. God'll show you how to best do that.

A person's salvation is the highest priority. If you spend all your money to feed them but don't share the gospel with them they'll go to hell with full bellies. God'll give you wisdom if you ask.

now if only preachers/pastors were also told about how paul for the most part worked, not to burden others, paul told those elders to work in acts 20 also, u may want to quote that also, thanks, froggy.

 

[WordofHisPower]

Ah yes ... this is why I doubt the honesty of any christian claiming the importance of the Scriptures ...

Any tithes ( food ) that were converted to money were to be converted back to food upon reaching the destination . It was a temporary state . The food was then to be primarily eaten by the one with the tithe and their household .

No one eats money. When you tithe the money gets converted back into food for those who receive it.

You anti-tithers are the only one's promoting legalistic tithing. Tithers are more realistic and reasonable about what tithing is and what to do with the tithe.

 

[GaryArnold]

The lack of knowledge here is amazing.

To say or think that wage earners were poor shows ignorance. Here are some occupations that DID NOT TITHE:

Arts and Crafts: Ex. 31:3-5; 35:31-35; 2 Ki. 16:10

Baker: Gen. 40:1-2; Jer. 37:21; Hos. 7:4

Builder: 2 Ki. 12:11; 22:6; Ezra 3:10; Matt 21:42; Heb. 3:3; 1 Pet. 2:7

Carpenter: 2 Sam. 5:11; 2 Ki. 12:11; 2 Chr. 24:12; Ezra 3:7; Isa. 44:13; Matt. 13:55; Mk. 6:3

Cook: 1 Sam. 8:13; 9:23-24

Doorkeeper: 2 Ki. 22:4; 25:18; 1 Chr. 15:23-24; Jer. 35:4

Fisherman: Isa. 19:8; Jer. 16:16; Ezek. 47:10; Matt. 4:18; 13:48; Lk. 5:2

Foremen: Ruth 2:5-6; 1 Ki. 5:16; 2 Chr. 2:2, 18; Matt. 20:8

Fortune Teller: Deut. 13:1-3; Acts 16:16

Goldsmith: Neh. 3:8, 31-32; Isa. 40:19; 41:7; 46:6; Jer. 10:9, 14; 51:17

Hunter: Gen. 10:9; 25:27; Jer. 16:16

Innkeeper: Lk. 10:35

Mason - Stonemasons: 2 Sam 5:11; 2 Ki. 12:12; 1 Chr. 22:15; 2 Chr. 24:12

Merchant - Trader: Gen. 23:16; 37:28; 1 Ki. 10:15; Neh. 13:20; Ezek. 27:3, 22-23; Matt. 13:45

Musician: 1 Ki. 10:12; 1 Chr. 6:33; 9:33; 2 Chr. 5:12

Perfume Maker: Ex. 30:25, 33, 35; 37:29; 1 Sam. 8:13; Neh. 3:8

love-peddler: Gen. 38:15-24; Lev. 21:14; Josh. 6:17, 25; Judg. 11:1; 16:1; Jer. 3:1; Joel 3:3; Matt. 21:31-32; Lk. 15:30; 1 Cor. 6:15-16; Jas. 2:25

Scribe - Teacher of the law: 1 Chr. 2:55; 1 Chr. 24:6; 27:32; Neh. 8:1; 13:13; Jer. 36:26; Matt. 2:4; Mk. 2:6; Acts 4:5 (They did not tithe on any income from being a teacher or lawyer.)

The Israelite farmer who inherited the promised land DID NOT TITHE from their income.

When the children of Israel reached the promised land, with their animals, etc., every "family" had a farm. But every "family member" was not a farmer. They had all kinds of occupations. But the "family" had a farm, and the tithe came from the crops and animals in herds and flocks, NOT from the wages or other types of income from the "family members." The command to tithe wasn't on each individual, but rather on the "children of Israel" as a nation, or as a whole. Church leaders put the tithe down to the individual level which is wrong. Putting the tithe down to the individual level creates all kinds of problems; i.e. some tithed, some did not. It creates the problem of understanding that ALL attended the yearly feast, but not all tithed. When you see the big picture that the tithe was on the nation as a whole, and not the individual, everything starts to fall into place.

Today, ALL born-again believers are priests. ALL of us are called to be disciples of the Lord. No one of us is greater than another. Our bodies are the Temple where the Spirit dwells. According to the scriptures, priests do not tithe.

The New Testament teaches generous, sacrificial giving, from the heart, according to our means. For some, $1 might be a sacrifice, while for others, even giving 50% of their income might not induce a sacrifice. In the Old Testament, ONLY the farmers tithed, and it was a tenth. The New Testament teaches the principle of equal sacrifice instead of a tenth. Equal sacrifice is much harder to achieve, if not impossible, than giving a tenth.

Today, those who tithe have a mindset that starts with a tenth. That is not only wrong, it many cases it shows selfishness. As a non-tither, my mindset starts with "give what the Spirit leads me to give" and "give where the Spirit leads me to give." Being Spirit led, my giving never starts as low as a tenth.

 

[WordofHisPower]

The lack of knowledge here is amazing.

To say or think that wage earners were poor shows ignorance. Here are some occupations that DID NOT TITHE:

Arts and Crafts: Ex. 31:3-5; 35:31-35; 2 Ki. 16:10

Baker: Gen. 40:1-2; Jer. 37:21; Hos. 7:4

Builder: 2 Ki. 12:11; 22:6; Ezra 3:10; Matt 21:42; Heb. 3:3; 1 Pet. 2:7

Carpenter: 2 Sam. 5:11; 2 Ki. 12:11; 2 Chr. 24:12; Ezra 3:7; Isa. 44:13; Matt. 13:55; Mk. 6:3

Cook: 1 Sam. 8:13; 9:23-24

Doorkeeper: 2 Ki. 22:4; 25:18; 1 Chr. 15:23-24; Jer. 35:4

Fisherman: Isa. 19:8; Jer. 16:16; Ezek. 47:10; Matt. 4:18; 13:48; Lk. 5:2

Foremen: Ruth 2:5-6; 1 Ki. 5:16; 2 Chr. 2:2, 18; Matt. 20:8

Fortune Teller: Deut. 13:1-3; Acts 16:16

Goldsmith: Neh. 3:8, 31-32; Isa. 40:19; 41:7; 46:6; Jer. 10:9, 14; 51:17

Hunter: Gen. 10:9; 25:27; Jer. 16:16

Innkeeper: Lk. 10:35

Mason - Stonemasons: 2 Sam 5:11; 2 Ki. 12:12; 1 Chr. 22:15; 2 Chr. 24:12

Merchant - Trader: Gen. 23:16; 37:28; 1 Ki. 10:15; Neh. 13:20; Ezek. 27:3, 22-23; Matt. 13:45

Musician: 1 Ki. 10:12; 1 Chr. 6:33; 9:33; 2 Chr. 5:12

Perfume Maker: Ex. 30:25, 33, 35; 37:29; 1 Sam. 8:13; Neh. 3:8

love-peddler: Gen. 38:15-24; Lev. 21:14; Josh. 6:17, 25; Judg. 11:1; 16:1; Jer. 3:1; Joel 3:3; Matt. 21:31-32; Lk. 15:30; 1 Cor. 6:15-16; Jas. 2:25

Scribe - Teacher of the law: 1 Chr. 2:55; 1 Chr. 24:6; 27:32; Neh. 8:1; 13:13; Jer. 36:26; Matt. 2:4; Mk. 2:6; Acts 4:5 (They did not tithe on any income from being a teacher or lawyer.)

The Israelite farmer who inherited the promised land DID NOT TITHE from their income.

When the children of Israel reached the promised land, with their animals, etc., every "family" had a farm. But every "family member" was not a farmer. They had all kinds of occupations. But the "family" had a farm, and the tithe came from the crops and animals in herds and flocks, NOT from the wages or other types of income from the "family members." The command to tithe wasn't on each individual, but rather on the "children of Israel" as a nation, or as a whole. Church leaders put the tithe down to the individual level which is wrong. Putting the tithe down to the individual level creates all kinds of problems; i.e. some tithed, some did not. It creates the problem of understanding that ALL attended the yearly feast, but not all tithed. When you see the big picture that the tithe was on the nation as a whole, and not the individual, everything starts to fall into place.

Today, ALL born-again believers are priests. ALL of us are called to be disciples of the Lord. No one of us is greater than another. Our bodies are the Temple where the Spirit dwells. According to the scriptures, priests do not tithe.

The New Testament teaches generous, sacrificial giving, from the heart, according to our means. For some, $1 might be a sacrifice, while for others, even giving 50% of their income might not induce a sacrifice. In the Old Testament, ONLY the farmers tithed, and it was a tenth. The New Testament teaches the principle of equal sacrifice instead of a tenth. Equal sacrifice is much harder to achieve, if not impossible, than giving a tenth.

Today, those who tithe have a mindset that starts with a tenth. That is not only wrong, it many cases it shows selfishness. As a non-tither, my mindset starts with "give what the Spirit leads me to give" and "give where the Spirit leads me to give." Being Spirit led, my giving never starts as low as a tenth.

None of the scriptures above say not to tithe. You've only given a list of all the types of professions there were. These weren't wage earners. These were business people.

To think that landowners didn't have other skills and abilities is a bit naive. Every Israelite was given an allotment of land by the Lord (except the Levites). What do you think they did with that land? Not grow crops or raise livestock? I think not. Those with land grew something or raised something.