To those who believe in universal salvation, how long does hell last?

[Ceallaigh]

I don't think universalists think punishment in the sense of torture or torment is okay for even a second. God's punishment is always loving and while there may be a punitive element the overall purpose will be corrective and educational, designed to bring the person back to God. I suppose in theory this could take a billion trillion years, but in practice it's hard to see how someone could resist God for that long once they finally get to know him.

So you're saying whatever the duration, God isn't going to be keeping people in torment over an open flame.

 

[Jeshu]

QUOTE="Original Happy Camper, post: 76263483, member: 385722"]Of worshiping a GOD that would do this




Mat 25:46 And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.

Only the righteous inherit life eternal in the above scripture

The doctrine that the wicked dead are tormented forever is inconsistent with the character of God, who demonstrated infinite love for us in the sacrifice of His Son. Unfortunately, many people have misunderstood these concepts and reject God as a result.

The word aiónios, which means "everlasting," is used to describe the fate of the righteous as well as the wicked. The punishment of the wicked is everlasting death. The fire itself is not everlasting, but the final consequence of the fire—death—is everlasting.

This principle is clearly demonstrated in the Scriptures. In Malachi 4:1-3, speaking of that last day when the earth and all the wicked are burned up, God tells the prophet, "behold, the day cometh, that shall burn as an oven; and all the proud, yea, and all that do wickedly, shall be stubble: and the day that cometh shall burn them up, saith the LORD of hosts, that it shall leave them neither root nor branch... they shall be ashes under the soles of your feet in the day that I shall do this."

Ashes and stubble indicate that the fire is out. The wicked do not burn eternally, but their destruction is final. Their pain and suffering is over, as is their life of sin and rebellion. God has mercy even on the wicked in that He does not allow them to suffer eternally.


Hell and Purgatory[/QUOTE]

It sounds nice but it is not so in my understanding of god's righteous punishments. To many words of Scripture would cease to be true if it happens like you say.

The truth of the lie will always be true, truth doesn't stop being true after awhile, it is always true that the wicked loved killing life, so forever their lives will be killed, it is their delight, so they get it. Also the wicked always enjoyed causing pain, so forever they can generate pain to enjoy such to their hearts desire. They always judged us to hell, because of the things we done in them, yet Jesus got us to pray for forgiveness and so were saved from our life in them, while they were left behind to receive punishment.

Like Isaiah says in chapter 34:8-10
For the Lord has a day of vengeance,
a year of retribution, to uphold Zion’s cause.
Edom’s streams will be turned into pitch,
her dust into burning sulfur;
her land will become blazing pitch!
It will not be quenched night or day;
its smoke will rise forever.

So no i do not think eternal is not eternal. i don't think it is wise to know better than the word.



Not only that when Jesus cut the wicked down inside of my heart, the wicked knew what was waiting for them. They freaked Him! They know the truth, God warned them before they robbed our lives for themselves that He would send them to hell, i knew in my wilful sinning self that what i wasabout to do was wrong, but I did it any way, not fearing God and killing the righteous in me with their lies and let them rule me with their misery. So Jesus saved me from such wicked life in me, but destroys the wicked living within me.
Revelation 14:11
"And the smoke of their torment will rise for ever and ever. There will be no rest day or night for those who worship the beast and its image, or for anyone who receives the mark of its name.”

Furthermore i know that Revelation tells us where the wicked got all the evil from, for God never created it. That creep satan, in control of sinners hearts, took it out of the Abyss/The Uncreated and brought it into our lives through his wicked lies. In this way evil was given life through our life blood, destroying our inner world of being with their wickedness. Isaiah 57:1-4
Isaiah 57:1-4
The righteous perish,
and no one takes it to heart;
the devout are taken away,
and no one understands
that the righteous are taken away
to be spared from evil.
Those who walk uprightly
enter into peace;
they find rest as they lie in death.
“But you—come here, you children of a sorceress,
you offspring of adulterers and prostitutes!
Who are you mocking?
At whom do you sneer
and stick out your tongue?
Are you not a brood of rebels,
the offspring of liars?

Can you see the offspring of liars are devils brood in us. Where we gave our life blood to wilful sin in our lives. So it is for us to repent of such life and then such spirituality can go in the pit, to be judged on the last Day. All the wicked who lived in my heart are burning the fire, and i know they will never get out of the fire.

Honest the whole of heaven is rejoicing in God's righteous judgements and so am i.
Revelation 16:5-7
"Then I heard the angel in charge of the waters say:

“You are just in these judgements, O Holy One,
you who are and who were;
for they have shed the blood of your holy people and your prophets,
and you have given them blood to drink as they deserve.”


And I heard the altar respond:

“Yes, Lord God Almighty,
true and just are your judgements.”

i reckon it is best to be very clear who will join in this rejoicing, only those chosen by God to serve Him, not those who take the side of the wicked, or try and protect them, rather such life is all numbered to go.
Revelation 19:1-9
After this I heard what sounded like the roar of a great multitude in heaven shouting:

“Hallelujah!
Salvation and glory and power belong to our God,
for true and just are his judgement.
He has condemned the great prostitute
who corrupted the earth by her adulteries.
He has avenged on her the blood of his servants.”


And again they shouted:

“Hallelujah!
The smoke from her goes up for ever and ever.”


The twenty-four elders and the four living creatures fell down and worshiped God, who was seated on the throne. And they cried:

“Amen, Hallelujah!”


Then a voice came from the throne, saying:

“Praise our God,
all you his servants,
you who fear him,
both great and small!”


Then I heard what sounded like a great multitude, like the roar of rushing waters and like loud peals of thunder, shouting:

“Hallelujah!
For our Lord God Almighty reigns.
Let us rejoice and be glad
and give him glory!
For the wedding of the Lamb has come,
and his bride has made herself ready.
Fine linen, bright and clean,
was given her to wear.”

(Fine linen stands for the righteous acts of God’s holy people.)


To hell with those wicked i reckon, the lot of them. For that horrible devil has been after my life since i was born, he has been so very cruel and mean. So i hope this word will be true for him and his seed in me.

Psalm 109:6-20
Appoint someone evil to oppose my enemy;
let an accuser stand at his right hand.
When he is tried, let him be found guilty,
and may his prayers condemn him.
May his days be few;
may another take his place of leadership.
May his children be fatherless
and his wife a widow.
May his children be wandering beggars;
may they be driven from their ruined homes.
May a creditor seize all he has;
may strangers plunder the fruits of his labor.
May no one extend kindness to him
or take pity on his fatherless children.
May his descendants be cut off,
their names blotted out from the next generation.
May the iniquity of his fathers be remembered before the Lord;
may the sin of his mother never be blotted out.
May their sins always remain before the Lord,
that he may blot out their name from the earth.
For he never thought of doing a kindness,
but hounded to death the poor
and the needy and the broken hearted.
He loved to pronounce a curse—
may it come back on him.
He found no pleasure in blessing—
may it be far from him.
He wore cursing as his garment;
it entered into his body like water,
into his bones like oil.
May it be like a cloak wrapped about him,
like a belt tied forever around him.
May this be the Lord’s payment to my accusers,
to those who speak evil of me.


Peace.

 

[Hmm]

So you're saying whatever the duration, God isn't going to be keeping people in torment over an open flame.

Yes, I don't think holding someone over a naked flame is going to endear you to anyone! I think the flame is an image: if we are full of sin, God's love feels like a fire as it purified that sin but if we are close to God his love appears as warmth.

 

[Original Happy Camper]

QUOTE="Original Happy Camper, post: 76263483, member: 385722"]Of worshiping a GOD that would do this




Mat 25:46 And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.

Only the righteous inherit life eternal in the above scripture

The doctrine that the wicked dead are tormented forever is inconsistent with the character of God, who demonstrated infinite love for us in the sacrifice of His Son. Unfortunately, many people have misunderstood these concepts and reject God as a result.

The word aiónios, which means "everlasting," is used to describe the fate of the righteous as well as the wicked. The punishment of the wicked is everlasting death. The fire itself is not everlasting, but the final consequence of the fire—death—is everlasting.

This principle is clearly demonstrated in the Scriptures. In Malachi 4:1-3, speaking of that last day when the earth and all the wicked are burned up, God tells the prophet, "behold, the day cometh, that shall burn as an oven; and all the proud, yea, and all that do wickedly, shall be stubble: and the day that cometh shall burn them up, saith the LORD of hosts, that it shall leave them neither root nor branch... they shall be ashes under the soles of your feet in the day that I shall do this."

Ashes and stubble indicate that the fire is out. The wicked do not burn eternally, but their destruction is final. Their pain and suffering is over, as is their life of sin and rebellion. God has mercy even on the wicked in that He does not allow them to suffer eternally.


Hell and Purgatory

It sounds nice but it is not so in my understanding of god's righteous punishments. To many words of Scripture would cease to be true if it happens like you say.

The truth of the lie will always be true, truth doesn't stop being true after awhile, it is always true that the wicked loved killing life, so forever their lives will be killed, it is their delight, so they get it. Also the wicked always enjoyed causing pain, so forever they can generate pain to enjoy such to their hearts desire. They always judged us to hell, because of the things we done in them, yet Jesus got us to pray for forgiveness and so were saved from our life in them, while they were left behind to receive punishment.

Like Isaiah says in chapter 34:8-10
For the Lord has a day of vengeance,
a year of retribution, to uphold Zion’s cause.
Edom’s streams will be turned into pitch,
her dust into burning sulfur;
her land will become blazing pitch!
It will not be quenched night or day;
its smoke will rise forever.

So no i do not think eternal is not eternal. i don't think it is wise to know better than the word.



Not only that when Jesus cut the wicked down inside of my heart, the wicked knew what was waiting for them. They freaked Him! They know the truth, God warned them before they robbed our lives for themselves that He would send them to hell, i knew in my wilful sinning self that what i wasabout to do was wrong, but I did it any way, not fearing God and killing the righteous in me with their lies and let them rule me with their misery. So Jesus saved me from such wicked life in me, but destroys the wicked living within me.
Revelation 14:11
"And the smoke of their torment will rise for ever and ever. There will be no rest day or night for those who worship the beast and its image, or for anyone who receives the mark of its name.”

Furthermore i know that Revelation tells us where the wicked got all the evil from, for God never created it. That creep satan, in control of sinners hearts, took it out of the Abyss/The Uncreated and brought it into our lives through his wicked lies. In this way evil was given life through our life blood, destroying our inner world of being with their wickedness. Isaiah 57:1-4
Isaiah 57:1-4
The righteous perish,
and no one takes it to heart;
the devout are taken away,
and no one understands
that the righteous are taken away
to be spared from evil.
Those who walk uprightly
enter into peace;
they find rest as they lie in death.
“But you—come here, you children of a sorceress,
you offspring of adulterers and prostitutes!
Who are you mocking?
At whom do you sneer
and stick out your tongue?
Are you not a brood of rebels,
the offspring of liars?

Can you see the offspring of liars are devils brood in us. Where we gave our life blood to wilful sin in our lives. So it is for us to repent of such life and then such spirituality can go in the pit, to be judged on the last Day. All the wicked who lived in my heart are burning the fire, and i know they will never get out of the fire.

Honest the whole of heaven is rejoicing in God's righteous judgements and so am i.
Revelation 16:5-7
"Then I heard the angel in charge of the waters say:

“You are just in these judgements, O Holy One,
you who are and who were;
for they have shed the blood of your holy people and your prophets,
and you have given them blood to drink as they deserve.”


And I heard the altar respond:

“Yes, Lord God Almighty,
true and just are your judgements.”

i reckon it is best to be very clear who will join in this rejoicing, only those chosen by God to serve Him, not those who take the side of the wicked, or try and protect them, rather such life is all numbered to go.
Revelation 19:1-9
After this I heard what sounded like the roar of a great multitude in heaven shouting:

“Hallelujah!
Salvation and glory and power belong to our God,
for true and just are his judgement.
He has condemned the great prostitute
who corrupted the earth by her adulteries.
He has avenged on her the blood of his servants.”


And again they shouted:

“Hallelujah!
The smoke from her goes up for ever and ever.”


The twenty-four elders and the four living creatures fell down and worshiped God, who was seated on the throne. And they cried:

“Amen, Hallelujah!”


Then a voice came from the throne, saying:

“Praise our God,
all you his servants,
you who fear him,
both great and small!”


Then I heard what sounded like a great multitude, like the roar of rushing waters and like loud peals of thunder, shouting:

“Hallelujah!
For our Lord God Almighty reigns.
Let us rejoice and be glad
and give him glory!
For the wedding of the Lamb has come,
and his bride has made herself ready.
Fine linen, bright and clean,
was given her to wear.”

(Fine linen stands for the righteous acts of God’s holy people.)


To hell with those wicked i reckon, the lot of them. For that horrible devil has been after my life since i was born, he has been so very cruel and mean. So i hope this word will be true for him and his seed in me.

Psalm 109:6-20
Appoint someone evil to oppose my enemy;
let an accuser stand at his right hand.
When he is tried, let him be found guilty,
and may his prayers condemn him.
May his days be few;
may another take his place of leadership.
May his children be fatherless
and his wife a widow.
May his children be wandering beggars;
may they be driven from their ruined homes.
May a creditor seize all he has;
may strangers plunder the fruits of his labor.
May no one extend kindness to him
or take pity on his fatherless children.
May his descendants be cut off,
their names blotted out from the next generation.
May the iniquity of his fathers be remembered before the Lord;
may the sin of his mother never be blotted out.
May their sins always remain before the Lord,
that he may blot out their name from the earth.
For he never thought of doing a kindness,
but hounded to death the poor
and the needy and the broken hearted.
He loved to pronounce a curse—
may it come back on him.
He found no pleasure in blessing—
may it be far from him.
He wore cursing as his garment;
it entered into his body like water,
into his bones like oil.
May it be like a cloak wrapped about him,
like a belt tied forever around him.
May this be the Lord’s payment to my accusers,
to those who speak evil of me.


Peace.
[/QUOTE]

So you are saying that GOD relishes in the pain of the wicked.

 

[Saint Steven]

So do universalists think any length of punishment time, like a billion trillion years is okay, just as long as it's not eternal?

The longest sentence a person can have on planet earth is life-imprisonment. (until they die) I have heard of 100 year sentences.

This is in reference to punishment though. UR describes the time as restorative. So, basically as long as it takes to restore a person. I don't see any reason why that would be a long period of time at all. But if people were restored one at a time, there would be a long period of time waiting in between. Which may be how it works.

All this is conjecture, of course. We aren't told how long, or many of the specifics. If we witness each person finally reaching the place where they can say "Jesus is Lord", that may take a while.

Sometimes I imagine something like a video of a person's life running and stopping at key moments to discuss and correct the thinking and actions. Even discussion of the back story. The stuff we didn't know was going on behind our backs. Anyway...

What would need to take place to bring a person back to total restoration? Perhaps including restored relationships with others. And even whole nations forgiving each other. What a powerful time of healing it could be. Just imagine.

Hebrews 12:1 NIV
Therefore, since we are surrounded by such a great cloud of witnesses, let us throw off everything that hinders and the sin that so easily entangles. And let us run with perseverance the race marked out for us,

Revelation 7:9 NIV
After this I looked, and there before me was a great multitude that no one could count, from every nation, tribe, people and language, standing before the throne and before the Lamb. They were wearing white robes and were holding palm branches in their hands.

1 Corinthians 3:11-15 NIV
For no one can lay any foundation other than the one already laid, which is Jesus Christ. 12 If anyone builds on this foundation using gold, silver, costly stones, wood, hay or straw, 13 their work will be shown for what it is, because the Day will bring it to light. It will be revealed with fire, and the fire will test the quality of each person’s work. 14 If what has been built survives, the builder will receive a reward. 15 If it is burned up, the builder will suffer loss but yet will be saved—even though only as one escaping through the flames.

Mark 9:49 NIV
Everyone will be salted with fire.

 

[Hmm]

This is in reference to punishment though. UR describes the time as restorative. So, basically as long as it takes to restore a person. I don't see any reason why that would be a long period of time at all. But if people were restored one at a time, there would be a long period of time waiting in between. Which may be how it works.

All this is conjecture, of course. We aren't told how long, or many of the specifics. If we witness each person finally reaching the place where they can say "Jesus is Lord", that may take a while.

The ancient Greek word "aionios", which is used to describe the length of this corrective punishment, means "age-related" or "pertaining to an age" and an "age" could be either a very long or a very short time or something in between - the essential meaning is that it is of a limited duration and doesn't go on forever. When our Queen dies, it's likely that we'll enter what you could say was the "age of Charles". That would be an odd way of describing it but it's just to make the point. However, while Queen Elizabeth's reign has been the longest in history, Charles' reign will be relatively very short given his age. We'll then be in the age of William assuming that the revolution hasn't happened by then.

And it's hard to imagine what time would mean in a post mortem existence. Presumably something like time would exist in the sense that one event would follow another and things can change but would a clock in such a realm tick at the same rate as one on Earth? There are so many unknowns here.

 

[Saint Steven]

And it's hard to imagine what time would mean in a post mortem existence. Presumably something like time would exist in the sense that one event would follow another and things can change but would a clock in such a realm tick at the same rate as one on Earth? There are so many unknowns here.

It also occurred to me in my previous post that the length of time in restoration for each individual might be relatively short. (compared to an eon of time) But if we witness each restoration, the sheer number of restorations would require an eon. I imagine Satan himself being the last one to be renewed. That will take some doing. (I'll likely get hate mail on that comment - lol) But it stands to reason. Why not? Even Origen got in trouble on that account. So, I'm in pretty good company. - lol

 

[Saint Steven]

And it's hard to imagine what time would mean in a post mortem existence. Presumably something like time would exist in the sense that one event would follow another and things can change but would a clock in such a realm tick at the same rate as one on Earth? There are so many unknowns here.

That is an interesting aspect of this. In reference to how long: What is time? Supposedly, even gravity has an effect on the speed of time.

And how do we measure time? A single planet rotation divided into segments. AM and PM. Each with 12 hours, making a 24 hour day. 7 days make a week and 4 weeks make a month. 12 months make a year. And because that isn't completely accurate, we need a leap year to catch up. Say what?

Then we go the other direction and divide an hour into minutes and a minute into seconds. And then for timing things in the Olympics we need microseconds to find out who won.

And that's just in the physical realm. To your point, what about the spiritual realm?

 

[Hmm]

And that's just in the physical realm. To your point, what about the spiritual realm?

I think the spiritual realm would need a different definition of time than the physical world but what it would have in common would be that it's something that allows for a progression of events from the past to the present and into the future. Because otherwise we would be unchanging in the next life.

This is actually true for light in this world. Light travels at the speed of light, of course!, and so it does not travel through time at all. So a light beam is timeless and unchanging and a light beam now is exactly the same as it was at the start of the universe.

 

[Saint Steven]

I think the spiritual realm would need a different definition of time than the physical world but what it would have in common would be that it's something that allows for a progression of events from the past to the present and into the future. Because otherwise we would be unchanging in the next life.

This is actually true for light in this world. Light travels at the speed of light, of course!, and so it does not travel through time at all. So a light beam is timeless and unchanging and a light beam now is exactly the same as it was at the start of the universe.

Right. From what we can tell, there still seems to be a chronology of events (progression, as you said), but they seem to be all known at once.

Time in the universe was once explained to me as being like a 33 RPM phonograph record. We live in the center of the universe (record) where time (the needle) moves very fast. (short RPM) But in the outer reaches (the outside rim) of the universe (record) time (the needle) moves very slowly. (long RPM)

What you said about light is interesting as well. One of the arguments for an old universe, is the estimated distance away that the stars are. If it took light years to reach us, how much time is estimated to make that happen? The creationist workaround is that the "lights" were created as already visible. I suppose anything is possible.

 

[Hmm]

Right. From what we can tell, there still seems to be a chronology of events (progression, as you said), but they seem to be all known at once.

Lots of physicists subscribe to the 'block' universe theory where the universe is like a giant block of all the things that ever happen at any time and at any place. With this, the past, present and future all exist and are all equally real. I think Einstein himself believed that.

Time in the universe was once explained to me as being like a 33 RPM phonograph record. We live in the center of the universe (record) where time (the needle) moves very fast. (short RPM) But in the outer reaches (the outside rim) of the universe (record) time (the needle) moves very slowly. (long RPM)

That's true if I understand the analogy right. Whenever we look out into the universe, we are looking back in time. We see the Sun some eight minutes as it was in the last because it takes this long for its light to reach us.

What you said about light is interesting as well. One of the arguments for an old universe, is the estimated distance away that the stars are. If it took light years to reach us, how much time is estimated to make that happen? The creationist workaround is that the "lights" were created as already visible. I suppose anything is possible.

Creationist workarounds are very imaginative at least!

 

[Saint Steven]

Creationist workarounds are very imaginative at least!

I'm torn on that subject. I can see evidence for both sides of the argument. Intelligent design still makes more sense to me than a random occurrence. The statistical likelihood required, to supply the level of complexity that we see, seems very imaginative to me.

How do we find a balanced view in this?

 

[Original Happy Camper]

I think the spiritual realm would need a different definition of time than the physical world

This a GODs definition of time

Isaiah 66
22“For as the new heavens and the new earth
Which I will make shall remain before Me,” says the Lord,
“So shall your descendants and your name remain.
23And it shall come to pass
That from one New Moon to another,
And from one Sabbath to another,
All flesh shall come to worship before Me,” says the Lord.

 

[Hmm]

I'm torn on that subject. I can see evidence for both sides of the argument. Intelligent design still makes more sense to me than a random occurrence. The statistical likelihood required, to supply the level of complexity that we see, seems very imaginative to me.

How do we find a balanced view in this?

I believe in intelligent design too in that I believe that God set up evolution with an end purpose in mind, part of which was us. So it's not a completely random process because it has an end goal but it is random in the mechanics of how it gets there.

 

[Hmm]

This a GODs definition of time

Isaiah 66
22“For as the new heavens and the new earth
Which I will make shall remain before Me,” says the Lord,
“So shall your descendants and your name remain.
23And it shall come to pass
That from one New Moon to another,
And from one Sabbath to another,
All flesh shall come to worship before Me,” says the Lord.

That seems like a definition of time as a succession of events which I think science would agree with.

 

[Saint Steven]

I believe in intelligent design too in that I believe that God set up evolution with an end purpose in mind, part of which was us. So it's not a completely random process because it has an end goal but it is random in the mechanics of how it gets there.

That's good. There are problems on both sides. A day is defined as sun-down to sun-up in Genesis chapter one.

 

[SkyWriting]

So you're saying whatever the duration, God isn't going to be keeping people in torment over an open flame.

The burning and torment is not from any external source.
It's all in your mind.

 

[prophecy_uk]

Even though you have many topics and threads on your forums, it does not mean there are all those different varying discussions going on. There is one, and you might as well describe it as Heaven or hell?

Picking on words, inventing discussions, even participating in them, any of them, is what the world does, question things and reveals it has no answers, or that the answer it receives is only until the next questions are asked ( it is called folly and vanity)

The duration of men is very fast, that is why God refrains from destroying all ( even right now) for they are a wind that passes away, and comes not again.

Then they die, the the dust returns to the earth as it was, and the spirit returns to God who gave it.

Then the flaming fire comes in vengeance to them that know not God, which is done when Christ comes to be glorified in His saints, which is not the ones who do not fear Him and talk for the sake of speaking, it is the ones who are very slow to speak and who let their words be few..




Psalm 78:38 But he, being full of compassion, forgave their iniquity, and destroyed them not: yea, many a time turned he his anger away, and did not stir up all his wrath.
39 For he remembered that they were but flesh; a wind that passeth away, and cometh not again.

Ecclesiastes 12:7 Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it.

2 Thessalonians 1:8 In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:
9 Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power;
10 When he shall come to be glorified in his saints, and to be admired in all them that believe (because our testimony among you was believed) in that day.

Ecclesiastes 3:18 I said in mine heart concerning the estate of the sons of men, that God might manifest them, and that they might see that they themselves are beasts.
19 For that which befalleth the sons of men befalleth beasts; even one thing befalleth them: as the one dieth, so dieth the other; yea, they have all one breath; so that a man hath no preeminence above a beast: for all is vanity.
20 All go unto one place; all are of the dust, and all turn to dust again.
21 Who knoweth the spirit of man that goeth upward, and the spirit of the beast that goeth downward to the earth?

Ecclesiastes 5:1 Keep thy foot when thou goest to the house of God, and be more ready to hear, than to give the sacrifice of fools: for they consider not that they do evil.
2 Be not rash with thy mouth, and let not thine heart be hasty to utter any thing before God: for God is in heaven, and thou upon earth: therefore let thy words be few.
3 For a dream cometh through the multitude of business; and a fool's voice is known by multitude of words.

James 1:18 Of his own will begat he us with the word of truth, that we should be a kind of firstfruits of his creatures.
19 Wherefore, my beloved brethren, let every man be swift to hear, slow to speak, slow to wrath:
20 For the wrath of man worketh not the righteousness of God.




I am nearly done with the people of this forum, I guess you do not have awareness how the things that seem far from God, are the things nearest, and the ones who seem near, are as far away as possible. For me I will be glad to leave very soon.

I will tell again how hell works, and it is shown by the deliverance of David from hell, which is done through Christ raised up for us from that death. ( put your minds and hearts in the living not the dead faith) and this is done by making us to know the ways of life ( in Jesus Christ) which are hell and its ways being destroyed, and now to avoid being destroyed with it ( the devil and hell which are what is thrown into the lake of fire) is to be born again not of corruptible seed ( of the devil and his words of death and man) by the word of God, the word of truth as above in James, which lives and abide for ever, as compared to the death in hell, for ever..




Psalm 16:10 For thou wilt not leave my soul in hell; neither wilt thou suffer thine Holy One to see corruption.

Isaiah 38:17 Behold, for peace I had great bitterness: but thou hast in love to my soul delivered it from the pit of corruption: for thou hast cast all my sins behind thy back.

Acts 2:26 Therefore did my heart rejoice, and my tongue was glad; moreover also my flesh shall rest in hope:
27 Because thou wilt not leave my soul in hell, neither wilt thou suffer thine Holy One to see corruption.
28 Thou hast made known to me the ways of life; thou shalt make me full of joy with thy countenance.

Acts 2:1 He seeing this before spake of the resurrection of Christ, that his soul was not left in hell, neither his flesh did see corruption.
32 This Jesus hath God raised up, whereof we all are witnesses.

1 Peter 1:23 Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.

 

[Ceallaigh]

I am nearly done with the people of this forum

Be sure to give your sandals a good shaking.

 

[Saint Steven]

The duration of men is very fast, that is why God refrains from destroying all ( even right now) for they are a wind that passes away, and comes not again.

Maybe that is why sometimes the elderly are called old farts? Not sure. I didn't realize that was biblical. I have a new found respect for the term now. Thanks.