TO THOSE WHO ARE INVESTIGATING "MORMONISM"

[gort]

funguy quote:
By the way, I thought it was by and through the atonement of the Saviour that we are able to have and have hope in gaining salvation?

Hello,

And what is the definition of salvation to you?

That all will be with the Father in Heaven, only on the Work of Christ Jesus alone?

That is the definition of salvation to Christians.

Is it the same for LDS?



thanx


<><

 

[Rescued One]

I'm not answering for funguy, because he may disagree with the official belief of LDS.

Their third Article of Faith says, "We believe that through the Atonement of Christ, all mankind may be saved, by obedience to the laws and ordinances of the Gospel."

The Bible says, Ephesians 2
8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.

 

[Svt4Him]

Now back to regular programming. The OP is very well cited. So why have I, in five pages, seen not one refute to an actual post from the OP? It was all washed over, and it seems nothing there was addressed. Give me five posts there that are untrue, and then we can go from there.

 

[funguy]

I'm not answering for funguy, because he may disagree with the official belief of LDS.

Their third Article of Faith says, "We believe that through the Atonement of Christ, all mankind may be saved, by obedience to the laws and ordinances of the Gospel."

The Bible says, Ephesians 2
8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.

Are you saying that one rules out the other? If so, why do you think that?

 

[fatboys]

I'm not answering for funguy, because he may disagree with the official belief of LDS.

Their third Article of Faith says, "We believe that through the Atonement of Christ, all mankind may be saved, by obedience to the laws and ordinances of the Gospel."

The Bible says, Ephesians 2
8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.

FB: GWT, Paul is speaking to members of the church who was trying to infuse the Old law into the New. The old law was based on works, the new is based on faith, which motivates us to obedience. To follow Christ, not because of the consequences that the old law had such as stoning, but because we love Christ. Christ saved us from sin. The old law could not. So we are saved by grace through faith, not of the Old law works which Paul is speaking of, because the atonement is a gift from God. That is the chance to be redeemed is a gift from God. If we obey Christ and follow him, then the great gift is used. But we have to show Christ what we do. Just as the man with the Talents.


Not of old law works, lest any man who claims salvation from this old works could boast salvation through anything but Christ. Salvation through Christ means that we obey and follow him.

 

[Rescued One]

The third Article of Faith says, "We believe that through the Atonement of Christ, all mankind may be saved, by obedience to the laws and ordinances of the Gospel."

The Bible says, Ephesians 2
8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.

Are you saying that one rules out the other? If so, why do you think that?

obedience: an act or instance of obeying (this equals works)

grace: a blessing that is an act of divine favor or compassion

Salvation/eternal life is a gift of God. (see Romans 6: 23)

 

[Rescued One]

FB: GWT, Paul is speaking to members of the church who was trying to infuse the Old law into the New. The old law was based on works, the new is based on faith, which motivates us to obedience. To follow Christ, not because of the consequences that the old law had such as stoning, but because we love Christ. Christ saved us from sin.

They weren't trying to infuse the Old Law into the New. They were trying to add keeping the Law to the requirements for salvation. It doesn't work. Christ's death wasn't a partial payment for sin.

God only saves born again believers from the consequences of sin. They are the ones who have faith in Him and His ability to pay for our sins.

The old law could not. So we are saved by grace through faith, not of the Old law works which Paul is speaking of, because the atonement is a gift from God.

Better yet, the atonement paid for all our sinfulness! It completely paid for our salvation if we accept God's gift. Unbelievers are still headed for hell.


The consequences of trying to be justified by the Law equals hell; unless you keep the entire Law in every single point you are still guilty before God. God does not accept one tiny drop of sin no matter how small you think it is. He is holy. If you want to spend eternity with Him, you must be completely holy or accept His gift of eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.

That is the chance to be redeemed is a gift from God. If we obey Christ and follow him, then the great gift is used. But we have to show Christ what we do. Just as the man with the Talents.

For a minute, I thought you realized that eternal life/salvation is a gift, not of works lest any man should boast. The gift of God is not a chance to be redeemed by what you do. The gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.

Not of old law works, lest any man who claims salvation from this old works could boast salvation through anything but Christ.

Why did you insert "old law" into God's word? He didn't say that. He said "not of works!" You can't change His word to say "of some works but not others."

Salvation through Christ means that we obey and follow him.

Salvation means we spend eternity with God because we have been saved from the consequences of sin. Obedience is the result of having become new creatures in Christ. We do not work for eternal life. It is a gift!

The gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.


If thou knewest the gift of God, and who it is that saith to thee, Give me to drink; thou wouldest have asked of him, and he would have given thee living water.

 

[funguy]

The third Article of Faith says, "We believe that through the Atonement of Christ, all mankind may be saved, by obedience to the laws and ordinances of the Gospel."

The Bible says, Ephesians 2
8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.


obedience: an act or instance of obeying (this equals works)

grace: a blessing that is an act of divine favor or compassion

Salvation/eternal life is a gift of God. (see Romans 6: 23)

real question: What do you have to do to be saved?

 

[Rescued One]

real question: What do you have to do to be saved?

We must become humble enough to realize our own sin and inadequacy to erase that sin, and accept the gift of God through faith in Christ.


John 6
29 Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent.

1 Timothy 1
15 This is a faithful saying, and worthy of all acceptation, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners; of whom I am chief.

John 3
14 And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up:
15 That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life.
16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.
18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

Romans 10
9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.

Ephesians 2
4 But God, who is rich in mercy, for his great love wherewith he loved us,
5 Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved; )
6 And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus:
7 That in the ages to come he might shew the exceeding riches of his grace in his kindness toward us through Christ Jesus.
8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.

I know the immensity of God's love can be hard to grasp, but I pray that many who are reading this will come to that realization.

 

[funguy]

We must become humble enough to realize our own sin and inadequacy to erase that sin, and accept the gift of God through faith in Christ.


John 6
29 Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent.

1 Timothy 1
15 This is a faithful saying, and worthy of all acceptation, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners; of whom I am chief.

John 3
14 And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up:
15 That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life.
16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.
18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

Romans 10
9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.

Ephesians 2
4 But God, who is rich in mercy, for his great love wherewith he loved us,
5 Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved; )
6 And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus:
7 That in the ages to come he might shew the exceeding riches of his grace in his kindness toward us through Christ Jesus.
8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.

I know the immensity of God's love can be hard to grasp, but I pray that many who are reading this will come to that realization.

What does this all boil down to?

 

[Rescued One]

What does this all boil down to?

We must become humble enough to realize our own sin and inadequacy to erase that sin, and accept the gift of God through faith in Christ.

Christ's blood, not works of men, is the payment for sin. Any man who thinks he can earn the right to be in God's presence, is mistaken. Jesus already paid the full price for salvation. So everyone who accepts His payment by faith, will receive the gift. You do not add temple endowments and sealings, LDS priesthood, or anything as an additional requirement.

 

[The Pocket Fisher of Men]

Good information here.

You are right, my son.

 

[michael servetus]

You are right, my son.

DUDE!​

 

[funguy]

We must become humble enough to realize our own sin and inadequacy to erase that sin, and accept the gift of God through faith in Christ.

Christ's blood, not works of men, is the payment for sin. Any man who thinks he can earn the right to be in God's presence, is mistaken. Jesus already paid the full price for salvation. So everyone who accepts His payment by faith, will receive the gift. You do not add temple endowments and sealings, LDS priesthood, or anything as an additional requirement.

so what you are saying is that there are things we have to do to be saved?

 

[funguy]

due to my experience on another thread which was the last straw, I have decide to leave your company. here is a copy of my final post.

This has degenerated into a complete mass of immaturity. Probably my primary purpose for being here was to disallow free pot shots at the church that arise out of the anti's inconsistencies, innacuracies, imprecision and faulty logic. So I guess when they decide they can't fight you any more by doing things like quoting scriptures from the bible as if we were unaware of them implying they are really applicable, then they can poke fun. The problem is I don't think the normal people who I would be protecting are here at all so all I'm really accomplishing is provideing the antis an opportunity to spew more of their poison. I could be doing a lot more useful and productive things with my time. Hasta la Vista.

funguy