To spank or not to spank please vote

[PETE_]

Yes, they should decide for themselves. Are you going to be around for your children every single second of their lives to help them make their decisions? I would hope not...

Let's say your child hits one of his friends. In order to teach him that hitting is wrong, you are going to hit him? That doesn't make sense to me.

You spank them for breaking the rules, not for hitting. The hitting is just the symptom of rebellion.

 

[ebia]

I once read about a child who was isolated for days on end. I'd say that was abusive.

I read about a child who was sat in a high chair or potty seat for days on end. I'd say that was abusive.

I've read about (and met) people whose parents neglected to teach them behavior values and ended up either totally obnoxious or constantly in legal trouble. I'd call that neglect (at best).

Yes, it is perfectly possible for non-violent discipline to be abuse. Yes, there are plenty of cases of parents who use very mild physical discipline who do a far better job than some parents who don't use physical discipline. Which is why I wouldn't ban (mild) physical discipline until we've put in place far better training and support for parents to use really effective alternatives.

Everything can be taken to extremes, and those extremes are wrong. Condemning an entire practice because some people take it to extremes isn't logical.

No-one is using that logic.

Rachel[/quote]

 

[DivineRAiN]

charlie: Nobody's recommending that either. There are other alternatives.
Time outs. Lectures. Getting grounded. Putting a lock on the TV set. No dessert tonight. No allowance for two weeks.
The list of additional alternatives is very long

or hauling them off in handcuffs and spending some time locked up behind bars. I had called them kids.. (my daughter is 15 n I still call her my kid).. those 3 kids were 16, 14, and 13 at the time.
As for grounding n other alternatives, that wasn't going to happen.
When the oldest (she wasn't the 16yo) was grounded 1 particular time, the father was arrested for child abuse. She fabricated her story. The rest of the kids realized they had the upper-hand.


that the third girl is suffering from a mental illness which may be the result of a chemical imbalance or physical disorder.

nah, there's nothing mentally wrong with her.. it's the whole family.
Not just in that household, but also their Dad's family. The aunt they attacked in the van is his sister... she really believes she's a bad--- hard, hood.. not taking crap from anyone n not afraid of anyone. Environment crap.. living in Detroit n thinking she has a rep. All she does is run her mouth, and then it's real funny (n something to be proud of) that she told someone off, especially a cop... behind a 6ft fence that's locked.
The 16yo is an adult now, n she has a daughter.. there was a night when she and her baby left in an ambulance.. the aunt n her husband came out their house complaining about how the ppl down the street are wasting tax dollars... 3 vehicles in the drive-way, why didn't anyone drive them to the hospital. It was just an excuse for them to get hyped up n run their mouths... wrong response IMO. To me, they should've expressed concern over the baby. I was so disgusted I didn't want to look at these heartless animals. I told my next door neighbor that if the baby stopped breathing, 911 op will try to keep you on the line and have someone perform CPR until the ambulance arrives. That is exactly what happened.

 

[quatona]

You spank them for breaking the rules, not for hitting. The hitting is just the symptom of rebellion.

This leaves me speechless.

 

[Bananafish]

You spank them for breaking the rules, not for hitting. The hitting is just the symptom of rebellion.

I am very scared for any child you may have.

 

[TheUltimateWarrior]

The Bible says that if you spare the Rod, you spoil the child. Its pretty simple.

 

[PETE_]

21,19,17,15... Four wonderful and respectful kids of my own, as well as serigate father to a few more. They know I am firm but fair. Most of all, they all that I love them

 

[ebia]

The Bible says that if you spare the Rod, you spoil the child. Its pretty simple.

Taken completely literally and out of context, that's wrong. Also pretty simple.

 

[TheUltimateWarrior]

Taken completely literally and out of context, that's wrong. Also pretty simple.

Of course I take it Literally, its the Bible. How is it taken out of context?

 

[Adriac]

Of course I take it Literally, its the Bible. How is it taken out of context?

...you beat your children with a rod?

 

[Herman Hedning]

...you beat your children with a rod?

Personally I prefer a horse whip. Handles much better than a rod. But for the disobedient teenager I'd recommend a taser.
Disclaimer: This post is not to be taken literally.

 

[ebia]

Of course I take it Literally, its the Bible.

You admitted earlier that you don't take it literally - that you spank with a paddle, not beat with a rod.

How is it taken out of context?

It's context is a collection of wise sayings written well over 2000 years ago when using a rod to discipline was what happened. The verses are intended to tell parents to discipline their children, not how to do it.

 

[Rae]

There is no substitute for a good spanking when it comes to discipline.

--Sure there are. In fact, all the substitutes for spanking are better discipline than spanking, because they're actual discipline. Spanking is not. Spanking is deliberately hurting a child. That is not discipline. That's abusive behavior. It is not okay to hit a child, a person weaker than you, any pet, or any other being because they made you mad or did something that isn't okay. Hitting a child is as bad or worse than any offense the child has committed.

 

[Charlie V]

Of course I take it Literally, its the Bible. How is it taken out of context?

The Bible says. "A wholesome tongue is a tree of life."

Of course, I take it literally. It is the Bible. People whose toungues are wholesome have a tree in their mouth. I pray that my tongue is never wholesome, because I might have leaves up my nose.

The Bible doesn't have any metaphors.

Seriously, here's one interpretation from a Bible believer which does not allow beating a child.

http://www.capalert.com/capreports/sparetherod/

According to this, the rod, like the rod of a shephard, guides the sheep -- not to be used to strike the sheep. "Thy rod and thy staff comfort me," says the Bible. Not that they beat me.

Charlie

 

[Robinsegg]

What is it you want to know? The reason I don´t make much use of the icons is not that I want to withhold information, but rather my feeling that they are not really informative.
I don´t believe in biblegod - what else can I say?

Sounds great to me.
I personally do not care much for those guilt/punishment/forgiveness ideas, though. But that would be a topic on its own.

Well, knowing if you believe in "biblegod" would have kept me from using my time explaining all that, for one.

Rachel

 

[Robinsegg]

--Sure there are. In fact, all the substitutes for spanking are better discipline than spanking, because they're actual discipline. Spanking is not. Spanking is deliberately hurting a child. That is not discipline. That's abusive behavior. It is not okay to hit a child, a person weaker than you, any pet, or any other being because they made you mad or did something that isn't okay. Hitting a child is as bad or worse than any offense the child has committed.

I don't know where you're coming from to believe this. My husband and I were both spanked (at times inappropriately). Neither of us spanks out of anger, with great force, or without explanation. Oh, and a smack through a diaper isn't "deliberately hurting a child", because there is no pain involved. Only a feeling of impact through a cushy diaper.

There must be more to it for you than just "hitting is always bad", because of the way you express yourself. I don't need to know what it is. But I do see more passion and fire in your expression than a simple philisophical disagreement, here.

Rachel

 

[Rae]

I don't know where you're coming from to believe this.

And I don't know where you're coming from that you believe differently. I think all research shows that spanking is at best ineffective. I think my personal experience shows that spanking teaches kids that their parents like to hurt them. I think that people and kids and animals should not be hit as a supposed "form of discipline" as a result.

And I think that the fact that I feared spanking so much as a kid because my parents hit me when I was two, that I ran away from people and broke down in tears at the idea of a "birthday spanking" should explain at least something of how harmful "just a spanking" is.

 

[Robinsegg]

First, I'd like to apologize. I realized after I posted that some of my statements were either unwarranted or just plain too personal.

And I don't know where you're coming from that you believe differently. I think all research shows that spanking is at best ineffective. I think my personal experience shows that spanking teaches kids that their parents like to hurt them. I think that people and kids and animals should not be hit as a supposed "form of discipline" as a result.

And I think that the fact that I feared spanking so much as a kid because my parents hit me when I was two, that I ran away from people and broke down in tears at the idea of a "birthday spanking" should explain at least something of how harmful "just a spanking" is.

Well, I'm not gonna ask about any more circumstances ('cause they're just not any of my business). But I will say that one spanking wouldn't normally cause such a reaction, esp. if being one swat through a diaper or training pant and not done in anger. I've never seen a child react in such a way.

I have seen the results of abuse (I worked in a daycare). I know what it looks like. Nothing I do actually serves as abuse to my children. They don't cower in fear of me, they don't walk on eggshells around me. What the are, though, is learning what's acceptable. Mostly, I use other forms of discipline, because I think spanking isn't good for all (or even most) offenses. However, like the death penalty in criminal court, I do think it has it's limited usefullness.

Also, there are some parents who should never spank, and some kids who should never be spanked. There are situations in which it is totally unacceptable, esp. when dealing with past abuse from elsewhere.

Discipline is (or should be) a highly specialized area of parenting. It should be tailored for each parent-child relationship, and vary for each child in a family as needed. I don't think corporal punishment should be ruled out of every relationship because it's detrimental for some. Nor should it be mandated for every relationship because it works for some.

Rachel

 

[TheUltimateWarrior]

You admitted earlier that you don't take it literally - that you spank with a paddle, not beat with a rod.

Umm, no, I didn't.

 

[dlamberth]

Well, I'm not gonna ask about any more circumstances ('cause they're just not any of my business). But I will say that one spanking wouldn't normally cause such a reaction, esp. if being one swat through a diaper or training pant and not done in anger. I've never seen a child react in such a way.

What happens when the child get older, say something like 8 or 9, or maybe even 12 or 13? Is one swat going to be enough? I doubt it. Isn't that when the swats turn into spanks? How many spanks is enough for older children? Why wasn't the child taught boundaries at a young age so that they would never need swats no matter the age?

It seems to me that "if" the child had learned boundaries when they were wearing diapers, that they would not have need for swats when they were older.

Beyond that, the visual of even a single swat on a child in diapers is killing me.

.