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Debate-For MJ's Only 'To Keep the Passover you must be circumcised'

Discussion in 'Messianic Judaism' started by Lulav, Mar 12, 2018.

  1. pinacled

    pinacled walking with the Shekinah

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    No one is.
    Think about those two sons for a moment.
    There should be no malice or cruelty toward those who accept being circumcised.
    And have circumcised their son's now for thousands of yrs?

    Only one entity would tempt man to number the circumcised and uncircumcised.
     
  2. pinacled

    pinacled walking with the Shekinah

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    I was reminded of the woman at the table.
    Matt:15

    And also that there is prohibition against an uncircumcised son from partaking of the feast on account of their parents lack of knowledge.
    Because it is written.
    "The child will not share the guilt of the parent, nor will the parent share the guilt of the child."
     
  3. pinacled

    pinacled walking with the Shekinah

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    Sorry had to edit with a quote.
     
  4. danny ski

    danny ski Newbie

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    The Jewish official position is that Moses was born circumcised.
     
  5. Steve Petersen

    Steve Petersen Senior Veteran

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    This is halachah? Could you source this? I can see it being an opinion, but I have never seen that it has been ruled on.
     
  6. danny ski

    danny ski Newbie

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    Sotah 12a
     
  7. Steve Petersen

    Steve Petersen Senior Veteran

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    This is aggadah, not halachah. I don't see how you can say it is the 'official position' that Moses was born circumcised. The best you can say is that it is a tradition.
     
    Last edited: Mar 22, 2018
  8. danny ski

    danny ski Newbie

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    You cannot codify a narrative, hence it must fall under the aggadic interpretation. Which, btw, does not make it any less valid.
     
  9. Lulav

    Lulav Everyone will give an account Staff Member Administrator CF Staff Trainer Supporter CF Senior Ambassador

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    What is the reasoning behind it, that he was born that way?
     
  10. danny ski

    danny ski Newbie

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    It's a sign of great potential or blessing- something to that effect. It sure confused the Sages if that individual should be circumcised anyway.
     
  11. Lulav

    Lulav Everyone will give an account Staff Member Administrator CF Staff Trainer Supporter CF Senior Ambassador

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    Do you think that understanding came from the episode on the way back to Egypt where HaShem sought to kill him because his sons weren't?
     
  12. BukiRob

    BukiRob Newbie

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    Scripture states in Joshua 5:5 All the people that came out had been circumcised, but all the people born in the wilderness during the journey from Egypt had not.

    So it is seemingly clear that the tradition of the sons of Israel was the continuation of the practice of circumcision. Moses was not placed in the reed basket until he was older than 3 months. Given what Joshua 5:5 tells us it is almost a certainty that Moche was circumcised. Further evidence supporting this is that Moche was born of the house of Levi and while they were not yet the priestly order, G-d most certainly would have ensured that Moche was circumcised on the 8th day according to HIS decree concerning circumcision.
     
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  13. Steve Petersen

    Steve Petersen Senior Veteran

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    I was questioning the assertion that Moses was born circumcised according to the halachah.
     
  14. visionary

    visionary Your God is my God... Ruth said, so say I. Supporter

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    True, Moses' real mother had time to circumcise him before sending him adrift..
     
  15. Dkh587

    Dkh587 David דויד Supporter

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    Exactly. There's no reason to think he was born circumcised. Sounds like a Jewish fable.

    Being born to Levite parents, it only makes sense that he would be circumcised on the 8th day according to the commandment.

    Besides, no human is born circumcised. Even the Messiah was circumcised on the 8th day.
     
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  16. pinacled

    pinacled walking with the Shekinah

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    i suppose he does have an interesting name
     
  17. BukiRob

    BukiRob Newbie

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    :D well, that is utter foolishness.
     
  18. danny ski

    danny ski Newbie

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    Actually, it does happen- being born without foreskin (which can be seen as being born circumcised). The Talmud specifically deals with those cases in Shabbat 135a- if I remember correctly.
     
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  19. danny ski

    danny ski Newbie

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    There at least a couple of different reasons for it, but I don't believe that the case of his son is one of them.
     
  20. Dave-W

    Dave-W Welcoming grandchild #7, Arturus Waggoner! Supporter

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    Moshe.

    It is an Egyptian name meaning "drawn out of ..." Probably indicating his being drawn out of the Nile River.

    the Pharaoh was called Ra Moshe (Rameses) meaning drawn out of the sun.
     
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