Cappadocious
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Modernism continue to grow.
What differentiates you from a modernist?
Honest question.
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Modernism continue to grow.
My own view is that unity will probably not occur until Christianity comes under assault to such an extent that the numbers of believers shrink and shrink and shrink and the two sides are basically forced to unite in order to survive. This could happen within a few generations, especially if Atheism and Modernism continue to grow.
My own view is that unity will probably not occur until Christianity comes under assault to such an extent that the numbers of believers shrink and shrink and shrink and the two sides are basically forced to unite in order to survive. This could happen within a few generations, especially if Atheism and Modernism continue to grow.
What differentiates you from a modernist?
Honest question.
I guess an honest question deserves an honest answer, but why limit your question to myself? No doubt in many ways I am a Modernist, as are probably the vast majority of posters who are members of Christian Forums. It is all a matter of degree and a matter of interpretation.
(1) Orthodox and Catholics can make the case that all Protestants are Modernists and I believe that said case is a strong one. Throwing out such practices as praying to the saints, praying for the dead, believing in an intermediate state after death, holding to seven sacraments, the necessity of confession to a priest for grave sins, etc are examples of ignoring Christian tradition that goes back to the early days of the Church. How can one discard such and not be considered a Modernist?
(2) Fundamentalist Protestants would say that most Mainline and many Evangelical Protestants are Modernists for failing to adhere to a literal interpretation of Scripture and I guess their case is pretty strong also.
(3) The SSPX would contend that most Catholics have been infected by Modernism when they accept the two Vatican II teachings that they believe contradict Catholic doctrine, namely the teachings on Ecumenism and Religious Liberty. The Religious Liberty issue is a little more problematical, but hardly the one on Ecumenism. Yes, Vatican II contradicted the Syllabus of Errors, which condemned the right of religious liberty. However, the Syllabus of Errors was not an Infallible Papal Bull. Still, I suppose that the SSPX could say that the doctrine opposing religious liberty is protected by the Infallibility of the Ordinary Magisterium? That is uncertain at best. Regardless, the three Infallible Papal Bulls from the Middle Ages are extremely specific regarding excluding particular groups from salvation. Yet, the Vatican II document on Ecumenism no longer automatically excludes said groups from the plan of salvation, due to "invincible ignorance". Don't get me wrong. As a non-Catholic, I am thrilled that Vatican II opened up the door for non-Catholics to possibly obtain salvation via "invincible ignorance". However, I must admit that said position does not conform to the three Infallible Papal Bulls from the Middle Ages that refer to the EENS salvation doctrine and thus a strong case can be made that most Catholics today have also been infected by Modernism.
(3) Now, so as to be fair to all, we certainly do not want to exclude our Eastern Orthodox brethren, though a case can be made that they have been infected by Modernism to a lesser degree. No doubt Traditional Catholics would say that some Eastern Orthodox priests who give permission to couples to use artificial contraception, for purposes of economy, are displaying an example of Modernism.
Yes, I admit that to some extent, I am certainly a Modernist. However, I dare say that most Christians alive today are Modernists, when compared to Christians living a few centuries ago.
RCC & EOC - what exactly would it take to end the schism between the two churches?
I realize that is a loaded question & there are probably many factors involved - but maybe you could just give some basic points or thoughts?
My own view is that unity will probably not occur until Christianity comes under assault to such an extent that the numbers of believers shrink and shrink and shrink and the two sides are basically forced to unite in order to survive. This could happen within a few generations, especially if Atheism and Modernism continue to grow.
Who knows...but the last time they were similarly (or more immediately) endangered--just before the beginning of the Crusades--it didn't do anything for reunification.Our priest was expressing his belief that pressure from Islam will eventually cause reunification to become necessary for both the Catholic and Orthodox Churches.
Personally, I see the authority of the Pope to be the largest problem.
It's hard to see how it could do so without undermining its basic doctrinal system.I'm not sure how or if the Papacy will be willing to concede.
Who knows...but the last time they were similarly (or more immediately) endangered--just before the beginning of the Crusades--it didn't do anything for reunification.
It's hard to see how it could do so without undermining its basic doctrinal system.
That is indeed the way a lot of observers see it.It seems to me - and I mean no insult by this - but it seems Catholics have painted themselves into a bit of a corner doctrinally. Papal infallibility seems to make it impossible to rescind some teachings, including the supposed universal authority of the Pope.
And unless the Orthodox Church essentially crumbles in its structure (God forbid!), I can't see them accepting things as they are.
Actually, there is an established condemnation of a certain sort of purgatory, the sort which was championed at the robber councils of Lyons/Florence-Ferrara.As for things like purgatory and the immaculate conception, they are not Orthodox doctrines of course. However, they are allowed to be believed as a pious belief, if one choses, as the Orthodox Church has no competing dogma.
Actually, there is an established condemnation of a certain sort of purgatory, the sort which was championed at the robber councils of Lyons/Florence-Ferrara.
No need for apologies.
There are three general restrictions on conceptions of a purgative state in the afterlife:
1. There is no created purgatorial fire.
2. It is not punishment for sins.
3. Indulgences cannot remove "time" in this state.
RCC & EOC - what exactly would it take to end the schism between the two churches?
I realize that is a loaded question & there are probably many factors involved - but maybe you could just give some basic points or thoughts?
RCC & EOC - what exactly would it take to end the schism between the two churches?