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To Drink or not to Drink--That is the Question!!

honorthesabbath

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Many denominations belief that the use of alcohol is ok, but in moderation. Some teach that Jesus Himself not only drank alcohol but also MADE it for the guests at Cana.

Historic Adventism strictly prohibits it's use in any form or amount!!

What say ye???
 
T

TrustAndObey

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It takes away your inhibitions and that's not a good thing! It also clouds your judgement and alters your thinking. Tests show that to be true even with very small amounts of alcohol.

For communion it's absolutely a no-no because there is yeast involved in making wine...and yeast (leaven) represents sin.

We're to be a "peculiar people", not people that do what the rest of the world is doing!
 
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honorthesabbath

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=TrustAndObey]1 John 2:15 - Love not the world, neither the things that are in the world. If any man love the world, the love of the Father is not in him.

Are they partying in heaven with alcohol.....or is it something of this world?

You know Lainie--given the sad and violent history of alcohol---why would anyone call it "good"???
 
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TrustAndObey

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Honor said:
You know Lainie--given the sad and violent history of alcohol---why would anyone call it "good"???

I've seen families split up over it, people lose their jobs because of it...you name it! Starting out in "moderation" is to blame for just about every addiction there is! Addiction sneaks up on you and you can't control it or it wouldn't be an addiction.

I have the bike because I'm reminding myself that one day I may actually save up enough to buy one...and yes, it broke the blessings bank! I'm broke!
 
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honorthesabbath

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TrustAndObey said:
Do you like my "ANTI-BULLY" bracelet?

Riley's school is doing a lot of programs to keep bullies out of his school. I told them I would help in any way that I could.

Cool--when I tried to get one the other day they were out!!!
 
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Eruliel

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I believe that there are several verses in the Old Testament that speak of full wine vats as a blessing from God. Psalm 104 talks about God giving good things to people. Verse 15 talks about wine that gladdens the heart.
Wine is also a cure for stomach ailments 1 Timothy 5:23
I also believe that because fridgeration was rare in Bible times things went weird a little sooner than they would today. Grape Juice is one of those things that if not drunk soon will ferment. I believe that the grape harvest was months before the passover supper where Jesus gave fruit of the vine to his disciples to drink, therefore any grape juice that would've been there at the harvesting and squishing time would've turned to wine by the time of Passover.

Please note though that I'm not condoning drunkeness. But drunkeness is different than enjoying a chalice full of wine, or a pint of guinness. One of the fruits of the Spirit is Self Control...being able to control your mind, and body. This should also count for how much food you eat, and how much wine you take in and any number of things. Those who cannot control themselves should not drink wine, but those who know what limits they have should not feel like they can't Biblically have wine because it's something God has given us to enjoy. 2 Corinthians 8 talks about enjoying food and drink, but if your eating something causes a weaker brother to stumble and fall into sin (drunkeness) then you've done something wrong.

As an Anglican my church uses wine in it's communion, and it's served every week to everyone baptized under the name of the Father, The Son, and the Holy Spirit (including children...only they dip their bread into the cup and they appear to walk fine back to their seats). I find nothing wrong with Drinking alchohol of any kind, just so long as you keep it under the Holy Spirits control and not let your sin nature get the best of you. Know your limits.
Slainte!
Eruliel
 
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smooze

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What does your Lord say about what you drink?
Proverbs 20:1 said:
Wine is a mocker and beer a brawler; whoever is led astray by them is not wise.
How does the Bible describe those who drink intoxicating liquors?
Proverbs 23:29-35 said:
29 Who has woe? Who has sorrow? Who has strife? Who has complaints? Who has needless bruises? Who has bloodshot eyes? 30 Those who linger over wine,who go to sample bowls of mixed wine. 31 Do not gaze at wine when it is red,when it sparkles in the cup, when it goes down smoothly! 32 In the end it bites like a snake and poisons like a viper. 33 Your eyes will see strange sights and your mind imagine confusing things. 34 You will be like one sleeping on the high seas,lying on top of the rigging. 35 "They hit me," you will say, "but I'm not hurt! They beat me, but I don't feel it! When will I wake up so I can find another drink?"
It sounds like people know about the bad effects of alcohol even back in Bible times. In our day we have scientific research that warns of the mind and body-destroying dangers of alcohol and drugs.Though the Bible doesn't contain scientific statistics, the people who have lived by its principles even when they didn't understand all the reasons behind the rules, have benefited.Believing that their bodies belong to God, Seventh-day Adventists have followed a lifestyle devoid of alcoholic beverages, cigarettes and drugs, and it is this kind of lifestyle that has given them the leading edge.
 
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Cliff2

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honorthesabbath said:
Many denominations belief that the use of alcohol is ok, but in moderation. Some teach that Jesus Himself not only drank alcohol but also MADE it for the guests at Cana.

Historic Adventism strictly prohibits it's use in any form or amount!!

What say ye???

We should not consume alcohol, wine, beer, spirits etc at all.
 
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SassySDA

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TrustAndObey said:
I've seen families split up over it, people lose their jobs because of it...you name it! Starting out in "moderation" is to blame for just about every addiction there is! Addiction sneaks up on you and you can't control it or it wouldn't be an addiction.

I have the bike because I'm reminding myself that one day I may actually save up enough to buy one...and yes, it broke the blessings bank! I'm broke!

After having seen the devastation...personally, that alcohol does to not just the individual who is imbibing, but to the family as well...I simply cannot believe it is something that Jesus would even want us to touch, let alone ingest.

This dastardly concoction completely destroyed many of the members of my own family. It runs through both sides. On my mother's side she had a brother who was alcoholic, and she herself was alcoholic. Her Uncle on her mother's side was SO bad that if he couldn't get real liquor he would drink RUBBING ALCOHOL. It's no wonder he died of throat cancer. I watched my uncle die from cirrhosis of the liver. I can still remember being at the hospital, (I couldn't have been more than 12), and my mother talking to the doctor. I heard her say, "Oh Lord no, he's drinking WAY more than that per day." The doctor ordered alcohol (the drinking kind) put in his IV, but it was too late. You see my uncle had lied to the doctor about how much he was drinking, they didn't give him any at all, and he died from that total withdrawal, MORE than from the cirrhosis.

I was lucky to see both of my parents give it up when my daughter was born. They never touched the stuff after that.

Alcohol, in my humble opinion, is more insidious than illegal drugs, and I will tell you why. Alcoholics start out drinking socially, generally. The scary part is that none of them know which drink is going to be that "one too many", the one that pushes them over the edge and "hooks" them. This is from alcohol COUNSELORS, this information isn't just something I'm making up. That's one of the main reasons it's dangerous to even mess with. The other reason it is so lethal is that it ISN'T illegal. You can get it at any corner store or mini-mart or gas station. The LAST one kills me. "Do NOT Drink and Drive", but here buy a 40 oz. when you pay for your gas.

People kid themselves by not thinking of alcohol as being the drug that it is. When I worked in corrections, we had programs for addiction, and it was called..."Drugs AND Alcohol Counseling". I didn't agree with that, and I brought it up every chance I got. We are NEVER going to take alcoholism as the serious problem it is if we don't put it directly in the category it belongs in. It should be DRUG COUNSELING - period.

But you won't see that, and you know why? Because too many politicians imbibe. Too many police officers, judges, attorneys, you name it. If we call it a drug, that wouldn't look to good on their resumes now would it. Social drinking is OK in their book, so that's that.

I used to live across the street, on Long Island, from a police officer...a detective to be exact. Every summer this guy had a party for all of his comrades. I would sit on my front steps and watch in amazement, as his guests (other police officers) would STAGGER to their car to drive home. I would always say a prayer that they didn't kill themselves or anyone else on their way home. Call the police? LOL, most of them were THERE. And the ones that weren't wouldn't have done anything about it.

Every time you drink alcohol, even 1 shot of whiskey, it kills off brain cells.

And for those who think otherwise....Beer IS alcohol, and it is just as bad as straight liquor. A 12 oz. can of beer has the equivalent of 1 shot of liquor. It takes them longer, because of the amount in each can, but a person gets JUST as inebriated on beer as they do the "hard stuff".

The best advice is just plain leave it alone. It's the devil's brew.
 
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StormyOne

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Then perhaps some one can explain this text where God gave permission for the COI to take the tithe and turn into money and buy wine...

Deu 14:22-27 You shall truly tithe all the increase of your seed that the field brings forth year by year. (23) And you shall eat before Jehovah your God in the place which He shall choose to place His name there, the tithe of your grain, of your wine, and of your oil, and the first-born of your herds and of your flocks, so that you may learn to fear Jehovah your God always. (24) And if the way is too long for you, so that you are not able to carry it, or if the place is too far from you, which Jehovah your God shall choose to set His name there, when Jehovah your God has blessed you, (25) then you shall turn it into silver and bind up the silver in your hand, and shall go to the place which Jehovah your God shall choose. (26) And you shall pay that silver for whatever your soul desires, for oxen, or for sheep, or for wine, or for strong drink, or for whatever your soul desires. And you shall eat there before Jehovah your God, and you shall rejoice, you and your household (27) and the Levite within your gates, you shall not forsake him, for he has no part nor inheritance with you.
 
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honorthesabbath

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SassySDA said:
After having seen the devastation...personally, that alcohol does to not just the individual who is imbibing, but to the family as well...I simply cannot believe it is something that Jesus would even want us to touch, let alone ingest.

This dastardly concoction completely destroyed many of the members of my own family. It runs through both sides. On my mother's side she had a brother who was alcoholic, and she herself was alcoholic. Her Uncle on her mother's side was SO bad that if he couldn't get real liquor he would drink RUBBING ALCOHOL. It's no wonder he died of throat cancer. I watched my uncle die from cirrhosis of the liver. I can still remember being at the hospital, (I couldn't have been more than 12), and my mother talking to the doctor. I heard her say, "Oh Lord no, he's drinking WAY more than that per day." The doctor ordered alcohol (the drinking kind) put in his IV, but it was too late. You see my uncle had lied to the doctor about how much he was drinking, they didn't give him any at all, and he died from that total withdrawal, MORE than from the cirrhosis.

I was lucky to see both of my parents give it up when my daughter was born. They never touched the stuff after that.

Alcohol, in my humble opinion, is more insidious than illegal drugs, and I will tell you why. Alcoholics start out drinking socially, generally. The scary part is that none of them know which drink is going to be that "one too many", the one that pushes them over the edge and "hooks" them. This is from alcohol COUNSELORS, this information isn't just something I'm making up. That's one of the main reasons it's dangerous to even mess with. The other reason it is so lethal is that it ISN'T illegal. You can get it at any corner store or mini-mart or gas station. The LAST one kills me. "Do NOT Drink and Drive", but here buy a 40 oz. when you pay for your gas.

People kid themselves by not thinking of alcohol as being the drug that it is. When I worked in corrections, we had programs for addiction, and it was called..."Drugs AND Alcohol Counseling". I didn't agree with that, and I brought it up every chance I got. We are NEVER going to take alcoholism as the serious problem it is if we don't put it directly in the category it belongs in. It should be DRUG COUNSELING - period.

But you won't see that, and you know why? Because too many politicians imbibe. Too many police officers, judges, attorneys, you name it. If we call it a drug, that wouldn't look to good on their resumes now would it. Social drinking is OK in their book, so that's that.

I used to live across the street, on Long Island, from a police officer...a detective to be exact. Every summer this guy had a party for all of his comrades. I would sit on my front steps and watch in amazement, as his guests (other police officers) would STAGGER to their car to drive home. I would always say a prayer that they didn't kill themselves or anyone else on their way home. Call the police? LOL, most of them were THERE. And the ones that weren't wouldn't have done anything about it.

Every time you drink alcohol, even 1 shot of whiskey, it kills off brain cells.

And for those who think otherwise....Beer IS alcohol, and it is just as bad as straight liquor. A 12 oz. can of beer has the equivalent of 1 shot of liquor. It takes them longer, because of the amount in each can, but a person gets JUST as inebriated on beer as they do the "hard stuff".

The best advice is just plain leave it alone. It's the devil's brew.

AMEN AND AMEN SASSY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
 
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honorthesabbath

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Wine is also a cure for stomach ailments 1 Timothy 5:23

Think about what you just said! If a person developes ulcers or acid reflux or ANY stomach problem, the FIRST thing the doctor will tell that person is to AVOID ALCOHOL!! Why? Because alcohol is a caustic irritant!!! Pouring alcohol on an open wound (stomach) is like pouring gas on a fire!! No love, the bible is NOT talking about an alcoholic beverage that is "good for the stomach's sake"--common reasoning tells us it's just plain ole grape juice. Which now we know DOES have a healing effect on the delicate mucosal lining of the stomach.

I also believe that because fridgeration was rare in Bible times things went weird a little sooner than they would today. Grape Juice is one of those things that if not drunk soon will ferment. I believe that the grape harvest was months before the passover supper where Jesus gave fruit of the vine to his disciples to drink, therefore any grape juice that would've been there at the harvesting and squishing time would've turned to wine by the time of Passover.

We have two wineries not too far from where I live. So one day I called one of them as asked if it were possible to get drinkable wine by just setting grape juice aside and allowing it to naturally ferment. The owner laughed and said-"All you'll get is a barrel full of of a nasty tasting "vinegar"!! Wine is MADE--using yeasts or other substances that will "over-ferment" the sugars in the juice. As far as refrigeration is concerned--they didn't need it. After centuries of human existance on this earth--they had learned to "preserve" their foods by drying, salting and other methods. People delveloped an "concentrate" system for preserving the juices which delayed the fermintation process. They COOKED the juice which destroyed the active enzymes!! It became a thick concentrate, that was far less tasty than the fresh, but it took them thru the winter months.

Please note though that I'm not condoning drunkeness. But drunkeness is different than enjoying a chalice full of wine, or a pint of guinness. One of the fruits of the Spirit is Self Control...being able to control your mind, and body. This should also count for how much food you eat, and how much wine you take in and any number of things. Those who cannot control themselves should not drink wine, but those who know what limits they have should not feel like they can't Biblically have wine because it's something God has given us to enjoy. 2 Corinthians 8 talks about enjoying food and drink, but if your eating something causes a weaker brother to stumble and fall into sin (drunkeness) then you've done something wrong.

That's the sad point--thats the insidiousness of that devil's brew--most ppl cannot "CONTROL" the drink--it controls them!!!

As an Anglican my church uses wine in it's communion, and it's served every week to everyone baptized under the name of the Father, The Son, and the Holy Spirit (including children...only they dip their bread into the cup and they appear to walk fine back to their seats). I find nothing wrong with Drinking alchohol of any kind, just so long as you keep it under the Holy Spirits control and not let your sin nature get the best of you. Know your limits.
Slainte!
Eruliel[/QUOTE]

I'm not going to criticise your church, but think about these for a moment.
1. How many of those children who dipped into that alcohol, grew to LIKE it and became addicted to it because their first exposure to it was in CHURCH?
2. What happens to the "recovering alcoholic" who comes for Communion or is newly baptised? Is he then given the PURE juice instead of the contaminated cup? Or just denied both? Or returns to his addiction?
3. "under the Holy Spirit's control"--what? when has the Holy Spirit become an officer of the FTA? Does the Holy Spirit control the use of cocaine too? What about marijuana?? Doesn't "HOLY" indicate "undefiled"??

Erulie--I know that you were raised up in an environment of tolerence to alcohol use. But please study the scriptures from a different angle, ask the real Holy Spirit to guide your mind to heavenly truths. I'm sure you will find that the bible condems the use of alcohol. It's a mind altering-body destroying substance.
Blessings to u--Honor
 
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