honorthesabbath said:
Think about what you just said! If a person developes ulcers or acid reflux or ANY stomach problem, the FIRST thing the doctor will tell that person is to AVOID ALCOHOL!! Why? Because alcohol is a caustic irritant!!! Pouring alcohol on an open wound (stomach) is like pouring gas on a fire!! No love, the bible is NOT talking about an alcoholic beverage that is "good for the stomach's sake"--common reasoning tells us it's just plain ole grape juice. Which now we know DOES have a healing effect on the delicate mucosal lining of the stomach.
We have two wineries not too far from where I live. So one day I called one of them as asked if it were possible to get drinkable wine by just setting grape juice aside and allowing it to naturally ferment. The owner laughed and said-"All you'll get is a barrel full of of a nasty tasting "vinegar"!! Wine is MADE--using yeasts or other substances that will "over-ferment" the sugars in the juice. As far as refrigeration is concerned--they didn't need it. After centuries of human existance on this earth--they had learned to "preserve" their foods by drying, salting and other methods. People delveloped an "concentrate" system for preserving the juices which delayed the fermintation process. They COOKED the juice which destroyed the active enzymes!! It became a thick concentrate, that was far less tasty than the fresh, but it took them thru the winter months.
That's the sad point--thats the insidiousness of that devil's brew--most ppl cannot "CONTROL" the drink--it controls them!!!
As an Anglican my church uses wine in it's communion, and it's served every week to everyone baptized under the name of the Father, The Son, and the Holy Spirit (including children...only they dip their bread into the cup and they appear to walk fine back to their seats). I find nothing wrong with Drinking alchohol of any kind, just so long as you keep it under the Holy Spirits control and not let your sin nature get the best of you. Know your limits.
Slainte!
Eruliel
I'm not going to criticise your church, but think about these for a moment.
1. How many of those children who dipped into that alcohol, grew to LIKE it and became addicted to it because their first exposure to it was in CHURCH?
2. What happens to the "recovering alcoholic" who comes for Communion or is newly baptised? Is he then given the PURE juice instead of the contaminated cup? Or just denied both? Or returns to his addiction?
3. "under the Holy Spirit's control"--what? when has the Holy Spirit become an officer of the FTA? Does the Holy Spirit control the use of cocaine too? What about marijuana?? Doesn't "HOLY" indicate "undefiled"??
Erulie--I know that you were raised up in an environment of tolerence to alcohol use. But please study the scriptures from a different angle, ask the real Holy Spirit to guide your mind to heavenly truths. I'm sure you will find that the bible condems the use of alcohol. It's a mind altering-body destroying substance.
Blessings to u--Honor[/QUOTE]
It might be interesting, also, to check out the statistics of priests who have become alcoholics. The number is quite high. Most people will argue statistics, especially if I throw out a number, so I'm not going to do that. Google it, do some research and you will find that the number is quite high, and those are of just the priests who have admitted to the problem and sought treatment.
One of the real dangers of using alcholic beverages in church, even just for communion, is that it gives the alcohol even more power in a person's mind. It gives them carte blanche to drink, because after all, "we do it in church, don't we?"
This gentleman also speaks of the spirit and strength of willpower...not over imbibing in anything we do...that would be great and wonderful if it were true.
Addiction is a DISEASE. One that we may ALL have, it just hasn't manifested itself yet.
Scientists are still studying alcoholism. About 15 years ago, they were doing a study out in California, they were autopsying people, the homeless found dead under cardboard boxes etc. It was found that the ones who suffered alcoholism (and many, many of the homeless folks do), showed differences in their brains from those who were not alcoholics. Not differences CAUSED by drinking, PHYSICAL differences. They have come to the conclusion that the
TENDENCY is HEREDITARY. In other words, if you are like me, with MANY relatives suffering from it...you have a much larger chance of becoming one yourself. I watch with fascination as they come up with more and more information.
My anglican friend, do not be deluded by Satan that you are strong enough to never over-indulge in either food or drink...for with that mindset, it will be MUCH easier for Satan to squiggle in under your skin, and you could, (and Lord knows I hope not) develop a problem in the blink of an eye. Any one of us can.
During my career I learned the most about this dastardly substance. Listen again, in case it was missed the first time:
"The alcoholic NEVER knows when he/she is getting ready to take that ONE (count it - ONE) drink that is going to take them over the edge from casual drinker to can't live without it."
It's ONE drink, not 100. It just takes that "one" drink to flip the switch to the "on" position.
And honor...I could have told you what it takes to make wine. My father used to make it YEARS ago, out of the concord grapes in our backyard. You have to MAKE it, it doesn't make itself. If you let grapes sit in a vat, without adding the yeast, etc., you will get the nastiest tasting "vinegar-like" substance you can imagination.
I don't remember sugar being mentioned much, if at all, in the old testament. Did they have it back then? I ask, because my father used it in the making of his wine.
Alcohol does NOT settle stomach problems, it enhances them. Drink enough of it and you won't FEEL the problem or care about it anymore, but it is still there, and the alcohol is making it progressively worse.
After witnessing the devastation this poison caused, the havoc that it wreaked in my own family, and the many, many lives I saw destroyed by it in my corrections' career, I simply cannot believe it is something that God wanted us to make or ingest. Simply because He created fruit doesn't mean He intended us to make wine with it. Fruit is very good for us in it's non-fermentative stages. He created Hemlock as well, but I doubt he intended for us to make it a part of our diet.
Using the fact, and some have, that because God created something that means it's ALL good for us, is not just misleading it's incorrect. If that were so, my friends, He wouldn't have bothered to gives us His dietary law.
God Bless
