To all athiests out there: bring it on

[seebs]

Yup. But I can tell you, when I was his age, *I* didn't hesitate before jumping into debates. *sigh*. And now Google Groups probably has records of my early Usenet use. *hides*.

 

[Late_Cretaceous]

"I would disagree. Modern-day science has purposed itself to attempt to prove the theory of naturalism, that is, that tangible reality is all that exists, and there is no God. This is entirely different from its original purpose of taking whatever the evidence is and drawing the proper conclusions from it. "

Late Cretaceous: Science never has set out to disprove the existance of God. YOu do realize that it is impossible to prove that something does not exist don't you? Perhaps there are some individuals who claim that "science disproves god" - but that is thier personal opinion. I don't think you really understand how science works.

"Assuming God did create the universe and the Bible is His inherent, infalliable word, why would He choose to make it unscientific? It doesn't make sense to me."

Late Cretaceous: I don't assume any of that. Men wrote the bible, not God. Fallible, corrupt human beings created the bible. The bible is no more infalliable then a bridge or computer program. The bible is not scientific, since it is not science. I think it is rediculous to try and claim that the bible is "scientific".

 

[Smilin]

Originally posted by Pete Harcoff
I don't think age is a factor. I've seen people of all ages recycle the same oft-refuted arguments again and again. I think it's more an issue of education and experience.

That's why my advice for anyone wanting to jump in on a creation/evolution debate is to familiarize yourself with the arguments on all sides of the debate (and there are plenty of web sites for that). And try lurking on creation/evolution forums before jumping in.

nahhhh...do like I did when I first arrived...

Jump in head first..make a ludicrous statement..then stand back and watch...

Besides...we learn from our mistakes...not our successes.

 

[Late_Cretaceous]

"he has a 250,000 dollar reward for anyone who can convince him that evolution is true"

Hey, I have a $ 100 Million award for anyone who can convince me that I am not Ponce de Lyon.

 

[Smilin]

Originally posted by tacoman528
To Chuck Darwin,
I don't really know exactly how old the universe is, but we can make a rough estimate of about 6000 years old. Why, because we know (according to Caeser Augustus's census) that Jesus lived about 2000 years ago. Using that information and the information provided by the greatest history book in the world, the bible, we can use the recorded age and recoreded deaths of Jesus's ancestors to add up the years from Jesus all the way to Adam. From there to the creation was only six days. If your confused I will give this example:
Adam was 130 yrs old when he begat Seth
Seth was 105 yrs old when he begat Enosh
Enosh was 90 yrs old when he begat Kenan
and so on and so forth...
all the way to Jesus!
so all we have to do is add up all those years plus the 2000 years since Jesus lived and voila!!! The age of the earth.

I hope that answered your question, and I'd be happy to have more.

Next question:

Since you use the Bible to date the earth, Explain:

1.  Stalagtite/Stalagmite formations in various caves...let's specify one Cumberland Caverns, Middle Tennessee Area.  First formation you'll visit on the commercial tour is named 'The Great Whale'.  Geologists have measured the growth rate of this particular formation to one cubic centimeter per hundred years.  Given the measured mass of the formation, it's roughly 60 million +/- years old.

2.  Uranium decay rates which have shown the earth to be billions (not thousands) of years old

3.  Continental drift rates responsible for the formation of the various mountain ranges.  Please explain how the Himilayan mountains were formed in under 6000 years.

Many Regards,

Smilin

p.s. I'm a Christian

 

[Smilin]

Originally posted by David Gould
By the way, are Christians who believe that evolution and the big bang are likely explanations for present observable facts allowed to post in this thread also? They are evidence that the Bible does not contradict science, but I don't think they are quite what you had in mind ....

I'm taking the liberty in joining in David...lol

 

[Smilin]

Originally posted by tacoman528
Reply to this message if anyone thinks there is evidence for The Big Bang, evolution, or anything else that is anti-bible and anti-science and I will personally make sure that you never use that against a new christian who doesn't absolutely know every little trick that you use on the likes of them.

From a more seasoned, mild-tempered Christian:

Tacokiddo:

Explain exactly how the Big Bang and Evolution is anti-bible first.

Then we'll debate the evidence.  (no tricks I promise)

 

[Smilin]

Originally posted by Willowolf
Hey Peter Harcoff! There was a Global flood about 4,000 years ago. There are many proofs. I'll try to do it as simply as I can.
1) The water came from a canopy that covered the earth, creating a Greenhouse type effect. God caused this canopy to fall like rain. Millions of Gallons.

Let's start with this statement.

IMPOSSIBLE!

why?

Your Biblical interpretation says this flood covered all the earths mountains, which by necessity would also have to include the nearly six-mile elevation of Mt. Everest.  Using simple math:  If the 6 miles of water had come from the sky (atmosphere), then before the 40 days of rain started, the weight of this water would have crushed anything living on the earth's surface. (One cubic foot of water = ~62.4 pounds. Thus 29,000 feet of it would have pressed down with 62.4 x 29,000 = ~1,809,600 pounds of force per square foot for every square foot of the earth's surface.)

The earth would have been destroyed before a global flood had all the water came from a global 'canopy'....

try again....

 

[Annabel Lee]

Originally posted by tacoman528
To any athiests or agnostics,
I challenge anyone who thinks that science disproves the bible. Because it doesn't, and I'm willing to back up that statement. Reply to this message if anyone thinks there is evidence for The Big Bang, evolution, or anything else that is anti-bible and anti-science and I will personally make sure that you never use that against a new christian who doesn't absolutely know every little trick that you use on the likes of them. And to any christian that has a question about bible-science, feel free to ask me. I'll do my best to answer your question. And (to you athiests again) don't waste my time with rediculous questions like: what if nothing exists, what if this life is all one big dream and other things. I hope that I can clear up any misunderstandings about how science and the bible conradict each other. Later

Evolution is not anti-Bible.
You seem so angry for someone so young.

I will personally make sure that you never use that against a new christian who doesn't absolutely know every little trick that you use on the likes of them.

That sounds vaguely threatening.

Do you need a hug?

 

[Smilin]

Originally posted by daughter of the king
how did the people get that age??? we God created the world he did not create in new he created it fully mature, adam was a man not a baby.

the trees were mature and laiden with fruit

the animals were of an age able to bear children

so who is to say God didn't create the world thousands of years old??!!

Did he create all the sedimentary layers, the fossils, the cave formations...etc. etc. etc as well? 

 

[Smilin]

Originally posted by Annabel Lee
Evolution is not anti-Bible.
You seem so angry for someone so young.

That sounds vaguely threatening.

Do you need a hug?

lol Anna....I'm glad you hugged him...

and yes he seems quite angry (and confused)

 

[JesusServant]

Originally posted by Smilin
Let's start with this statement.

IMPOSSIBLE!

why?

Your Biblical interpretation says this flood covered all the earths mountains, which by necessity would also have to include the nearly six-mile elevation of Mt. Everest.  Using simple math:  If the 6 miles of water had come from the sky (atmosphere), then before the 40 days of rain started, the weight of this water would have crushed anything living on the earth's surface. (One cubic foot of water = ~62.4 pounds. Thus 29,000 feet of it would have pressed down with 62.4 x 29,000 = ~1,809,600 pounds of force per square foot for every square foot of the earth's surface.)

The earth would have been destroyed before a global flood had all the water came from a global 'canopy'....

try again....

Not that I agree with his theory, but once again you're using science to explain God's actions, that's just absurd.  To a Christian God can defy the laws of physics.

 

[Smilin]

Originally posted by Willowolf
2) The tectonic activity was great, enough to form great mountains and volcanos and undergraound earthquakes. And it did pretty much throw the ecosystem out of whack, that is one reason why man does not live as long as they used to before the flood (Adam 900+ years).

the great mountains were formed in less than 6000 years huh? or by your account 40 days and 40 nights.  Tectonic activity COULD have formed them in that period of time...but do you realize ANOTHER result of rapid continental shift..i.e. thousands of miles per day ??? HEAT through friction...MASSIVE amounts of heat...

I doubt anything would have survived a liquid magma ocean due to the amount of heat generated in tectonic activity as you suggest.  Try again. 

If you can prove the the Himilayas, the Appalachias, the Rockies, and other mountain ranges formed in this short time span, you'll rewrite every Geology textbook known, and your Noble Prize awaits.

 

[Smilin]

Originally posted by JesusServant
Not that I agree with his theory, but once again you're using science to explain God's actions, that's just absurd.  To a Christian God can defy the laws of physics.

Why would our Christian God fool us with his actions?

 

[JesusServant]

Originally posted by Smilin
Why would our Christian God fool us with his actions?

Why would Him not leaving evidence of every action he performed dampen your faith?

 

[repentandbelieve]

Originally posted by Smilin
Let's start with this statement.

IMPOSSIBLE!

why?

Your Biblical interpretation says this flood covered all the earths mountains, which by necessity would also have to include the nearly six-mile elevation of Mt. Everest.  Using simple math:  If the 6 miles of water had come from the sky (atmosphere), then before the 40 days of rain started, the weight of this water would have crushed anything living on the earth's surface. (One cubic foot of water = ~62.4 pounds. Thus 29,000 feet of it would have pressed down with 62.4 x 29,000 = ~1,809,600 pounds of force per square foot for every square foot of the earth's surface.)

The earth would have been destroyed before a global flood had all the water came from a global 'canopy'....

try again....

With God, all things are possible (Mat 19:26)

 

 

[Jerry Smith]

With God, all things are possible (Mat 19:26)

And the LORD was with Judah; and he drave out [the inhabitants of] the mountain; but could not drive out the inhabitants of the valley, because they had chariots of iron.
(Judges 1:19)

Sorry - just a joke - couldn't resist.

 

[Smilin]

Originally posted by JesusServant
Why would Him not leaving evidence of every action he performed dampen your faith?

What evidence are you referring to?

No scientific evidence concerning the true age of the earth, the age of the universe, evolution, abiogenisis, the fossil record, hominids, chemistry, biology, etc..etc. has dampened my faith in God one bit.

To alter science to fit any particular theological doctrines is nothing more than creating lies.  In addition, Christianity in no way refutes any current Science.  To suggest that any science is anti-biblical is pure ignorance.

 

[Smilin]

Originally posted by repentandbelieve
With God, all things are possible (Mat 19:26)

 

yes, I know the scriptures well.  And there is much scientific evidence in the creation that must be taken into account.  We can rule out a global deluge by the various scientific evidence we have.  God also doesn't lie or fool us either...does he?  I'm sure you know the scripture that states that...or should I quote it as well?

 

[lucaspa]

Originally posted by tacoman528
To Chuck Darwin,
I don't really know exactly how old the universe is, but we can make a rough estimate of about 6000 years old. Why, because we know (according to Caeser Augustus's census) that Jesus lived about 2000 years ago. Using that information and the information provided by the greatest history book in the world, the bible, we can use the recorded age and recoreded deaths of Jesus's ancestors to add up the years from Jesus all the way to Adam. From there to the creation was only six days. If your confused I will give this example:
Adam was 130 yrs old when he begat Seth
Seth was 105 yrs old when he begat Enosh
Enosh was 90 yrs old when he begat Kenan
and so on and so forth...
all the way to Jesus!
so all we have to do is add up all those years plus the 2000 years since Jesus lived and voila!!! The age of the earth.

This is Bishop Ussher's count in the 1600s.  However, by 1800 no Christian accepted these figures. Christians who were also naturalists accepted that the earth is millions of years old.

What you seem to be doing is pitting your interpretation of the Bible against the evidence God left in His creation.  Since it's you vs God, you are going to lose.