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The Bible predicts what we should expect from Christianity. So far, in my own personal experience, all the predictions have been proven to be true, including my obtaining a sixth sense (Holy Spirit) just as was predicted.
Atheism:
Gracchus said:Or to put it in different words, "The man who is not insane does not accept the delusions that arise from insanity, and he cannot understand them because they arise from insanity."
You all realize that the Atheist's drive to prove that God doesn't exist is proof in itself for God's existence right?
It's a basic psychological case of denial
"Denial is probably one of the best known defense mechanisms, used often to describe situations in which people seem unable to face reality or admit an obvious truth (i.e. "He's in denial.")."
What Is Denial? - Defense Mechanisms
How defensive or how desperately you want proof shows me psychologically 1 of 2 things.
1. You subconsciously know God exists. Thus yearning for evidence which explains your drive to find proof.
2. You know consciously that God exists, but are experiencing denial.
I've been there too.. It's okay
You all realize that the Atheist's drive to prove that God doesn't exist is proof in itself for God's existence right?
It's a basic psychological case of denial
"Denial is probably one of the best known defense mechanisms, used often to describe situations in which people seem unable to face reality or admit an obvious truth (i.e. "He's in denial.")."
What Is Denial? - Defense Mechanisms
How defensive or how desperately you want proof shows me psychologically 1 of 2 things.
1. You subconsciously know God exists. Thus yearning for evidence which explains your drive to find proof.
2. You know consciously that God exists, but are experiencing denial.
I've been there too.. It's okay
Most atheists are not trying to disprove God. Most atheists are smart enough to know that you cannot disprove God, leprechauns, the Invisible Pink Unicorn or the Flying Spaghetti Monster.
That is a classic psychological case of projection.
"Projection is a defense mechanism that involves taking our own unacceptable qualities or feelings and ascribing them to other people. For example, if you have a strong dislike for someone, you might instead believe that he or she does not like you. Projection works by allowing the expression of the desire or impulse, but in a way that the ego cannot recognize, therefore reducing anxiety."
You seem to be under the impression that I am an atheist. If that is your understanding, then you are mistaken, and should disabuse yourself of that notion.
If you were where I am you would be me, so ... No! You have never been where I am, and you have never lived my life.
[sarcasm]How nice of you to condescend to my level! I am so grateful![/sarcasm]It's okay
Shemjaza said:
Have you ever considered that you're looking in the wrong direction? Sure there are Christians who preach hell instead of love, but the overall message is that God wants to keep people out of hell. You realize that the cultural shift is bias towards Atheism, right? Do some sociological research and you'll be surprised. I'm not saying Atheists are immoral, because when I was atheist I was a good guy and I'm sure all of you are (and gals) but especially in the United States, capitalism, media and entertainment are supporting the decline in morals, how can these giants thrive without pushing people more deep into a world without a foundational moral system? I might have worded that oddly. Lol I'm extremely scattered brain today.Shemjaza said:
Well, I didn't overlook it. It just took me some time to respond.
I would refer you to On Being Certain: Believing You Are Right Even When You're Not by Robert Burton. You might even want to check out this:
Those who report this experience report perceptions that are almost identical, but, like the blind men and the elephant, they interpret the thing in the form they are predisposed to by personal history and social milieu. Thus, Buddhists report enlightenment, lapsed Christians become born again, Muslims become Sufis. It can't really be put into words but people try. It is rather like trying to explain fire to someone who doesn't have the concept or experience. As time passes the experience fades, and the rationalization becomes the certainty.
Could you cite some of these studies?
I will grant that the experiences are not delusional. As I have pointed out, these experiences are not interpreted as Christian in nature by Hindus, Muslims, Jews or Buddhists. They are at least real experiences. But they are a feeling. It has nothing to do with intellect. When the experience is over, people rationalize it, cast it into terms they can communicate, into metaphors, into similes, and those are all you can take from the experience.
I know that conservatives like nice, neat, clearly defined pigeon holes, but of course Christians are not all the same. There are over ten thousand denominations and if you walked into any Christian church and did a confidential survey you would find even those of the same denomination would differ widely on the details of what they believe. The history of Christianity is a tale of arguments, schisms, heresies, reformations and contentiousness.
You could conclude that, but I could then point out that regardless of these experiences, the historical evidence does not point to an omniscient, omnipotent, benevolent god.
Believers may have experiences in their heads. But anyone can experience getting hit in the head with a rock. Epileptics sometimes experience God in their seizures. Is that evidence?
Short easy, if unpleasant, answer: Yes!
The figures I have seen suggest it is more like 15%.
Most atheists do not maintain a positive assertion that God doesn't exist, although a few do. Most simply find no credible reason to believe he exists.
Atheists can have all sorts of experiences. They may, however, interpret those experiences differently than believers.
I have seen strange things. Some could be explained. Some could not. I did not need to postulate gods, pixies, or angels (all equally likely) to explain those that I could not make sense of. I could just say, I don't know.
Aquinas tried it, and others since, with unsatisfactory results.
Well, you do have to keep an open mind, but that means being skeptical. You don't want your mind so open your brain dribbles out of your ears.
I'll bet you noticed it later though! But Ken Hamm would call that historical science and call it therefore, unreliable. I'm not sure what point you're trying to make here. Is it that God is less noticeable than a hot stove?
If there is a creation there must be a creator? Does that mean that if there is a "reality" there must be a "realtor"?
Gracchus said:Well, I didn't overlook it. It just took me some time to respond. I would refer you to On Being Certain: Believing You Are Right Even When You're Not by Robert Burton. You might even want to check out this: 1. Introduction to Human Behavioral Biology - YouTube Certainty is a state of mind that has only passing coincidence with reality. Neuroscientists can stimulate your brain and give you the religious experience. It can also be the product of acute or chronic stress. It can even be deliberately induced by electromagnetically stimulating certain areas of the brain. Those who report this experience report perceptions that are almost identical, but, like the blind men and the elephant, they interpret the thing in the form they are predisposed to by personal history and social milieu. Thus, Buddhists report enlightenment, lapsed Christians become born again, Muslims become Sufis. It can't really be put into words but people try. It is rather like trying to explain fire to someone who doesn't have the concept or experience. As time passes the experience fades, and the rationalization becomes the certainty. Could you cite some of these studies? I will grant that the experiences are not delusional. As I have pointed out, these experiences are not interpreted as Christian in nature by Hindus, Muslims, Jews or Buddhists. They are at least real experiences. But they are a feeling. It has nothing to do with intellect. When the experience is over, people rationalize it, cast it into terms they can communicate, into metaphors, into similes, and those are all you can take from the experience. I know that conservatives like nice, neat, clearly defined pigeon holes, but of course Christians are not all the same. There are over ten thousand denominations and if you walked into any Christian church and did a confidential survey you would find even those of the same denomination would differ widely on the details of what they believe. The history of Christianity is a tale of arguments, schisms, heresies, reformations and contentiousness. You've made the point that Christians aren't all alike. Just so, there is no "typical" atheist. What atheists all have in common is that they don't believe in a god. They do tend to be smarter, better educated, and more liberal than conservative. And, interestingly enough, most atheists seem to know more about religion than most religious people. You might want to think about some of this. You could conclude that, but I could then point out that regardless of these experiences, the historical evidence does not point to an omniscient, omnipotent, benevolent god. Believers may have experiences in their heads. But anyone can experience getting hit in the head with a rock. Epileptics sometimes experience God in their seizures. Is that evidence? Short easy, if unpleasant, answer: Yes! The figures I have seen suggest it is more like 15%. Most atheists do not maintain a positive assertion that God doesn't exist, although a few do. Most simply find no credible reason to believe he exists. Atheists can have all sorts of experiences. They may, however, interpret those experiences differently than believers. I have seen strange things. Some could be explained. Some could not. I did not need to postulate gods, pixies, or angels (all equally likely) to explain those that I could not make sense of. I could just say, I don't know. Aquinas tried it, and others since, with unsatisfactory results. Well, you do have to keep an open mind, but that means being skeptical. You don't want your mind so open your brain dribbles out of your ears. I'll bet you noticed it later though! But Ken Hamm would call that historical science and call it therefore, unreliable. I'm not sure what point you're trying to make here. Is it that God is less noticeable than a hot stove? If there is a creation there must be a creator? Does that mean that if there is a "reality" there must be a "realtor"? Maybe you should think about word trickery.
