Time2BCounted

[Miracle Storm]

Permission granted to post this information.

The story of the Time i came 2 B
(yes pun intended)

Folks i thank the many that are speaking out asking for answers and fairness. I understand that staff may feel themselves between a rock and a hard place to follow protocall and not reveal some things, and then the questions being asked kind of put them in a catch 22 i think, so to eleviate the matter, I was going to wait until the end of my fsb, but i will do this by proxy to go ahead and alleviate the problem if possible, and maybe we can all come to a just solution whether it be for or against me.
Let me assure you i hope we can pull this board together and i offer my help either wat and theres not one here i dont love.
A couple years ago, or a few i dunno, I registered here under the name WolfBitnGodSmittn. I met one of you here in CC under that name, so HI to that special friend And hi to all.

You all deserve to know what happened and i see staff is attempting to keep to the protocall of not revealing things of a personal nature, So now knowing the protocal there, and knowing i can post through a proxy, if it helps the peace and helps us come to something positive, i will post this THROUGH a member so this is the optoin i am taking to address this situation directly.
I will continue to read the thread and i will understand if anyone has things they want to ask, so i will pm the answers directly to you and ask that you post them publicly
CC members only of course since i dont have the convenience of actually being here and have to go to greater measure to answer.

CC
This is as much detail as i can offer without turning this into a book
As 'wolf' i prowled theology, more specificly crevo for the most part. When i first arrived there i couldnt believe the flaming and insult i saw coming against the christians, they were being beat to a pulp. We were being told that we are believing in God simply based on our scientific ignorance... LITERALLY saying this.
I watched as the moderation just allowed it to go on and on. I decided a strong game plan was in order, so kinda like the new boy in school, when i saw my opportunity to debate the biggest bullies in town, to establish the point, "you dont mess with my family, you dont mess with my God, you take me seriously. You dont assume us all stupid, and how about giving us back some of the respect you are always harping for. I changed my custom title to "Fresh Meat So Sweet" LOL
I took advantage of debate and you may doubt this but i took all comers who mocked my God, and i proved to them in debate that God is falsifiable, and the fact He created the heavens and the earth is falsifiable, And also that the fact his book is coming to pass now is falsifiable, and future events are close enough we can see THEY are reasonably falsifiable.
I also took their cosmology and showed beyond any shadow of any doubt that their string theories are not falsifiable and all its defenders are jumping ship, and many scientists who are most notable and secular have declared string theory isn't falsifiable, neither can it work mathematicly in any of its near infinite forms lol, and therefore doesnt even qualify as a proper 'theory' according to scientific definition.
Then it was proven that there are no other falsifiable theories on the table to explain the catylyst of a sudden expansion of the universe
Having made all these points then, it stands to reason that "God created the heavens and the earth" is not only the most plausable and reasonable scientific theory on the table, it also remains the ONLY falsifiable theory on the table.

Needless to say i caused 'division' and anger, but i didnt break rules and i certainly didnt flame nearly as much as i was flamed. GOD's word beat them and they couldnt stand it... but they had to admit they had nothing else to put on the table.

THEN i got into it with another particular poster who Likened God to a leprechaun and i tried to see to it that he quit flaming God and defaming Him on a Christian message board, we were then still CC. I tried to take him on too scientificly and logocly, but he would have no part of the debate after a point.
Then i was banned
I had done nothing wrong, i was loud yes, i was strong, yes, but only because of what i saw there when i arrived,AND i broke no rules
I asked suzybreezy why i was banned by pm. she informed me i was banned for bypassing a ban. This AMAZED me because i had not been banned prior to this and i certainly didnt then BYPASS a ban.
I was thinking earlier that this next part took place by pm but i believe it was on the board posted publicly in a thread i had been in just before being banned
It said that i had not actually broken any rules at all, but that i had taken some things to the very edge, which i submit is STILL not breaking a rulke by the way. And also said that i was only banned because i had created such an uproar and i wouldnt back down.
I DID back down however every time their debate was OVER, and i moved on, but as long as they had a debate i was there to answer it.

After being banned for bypassing a ban i didnt bypass lol, i didnt post a good while, though i read from time to time as a guest.
Along came 777 and the aftermath
I saw my brothers and sisters in a fight
I saw the things i consider being 'perpetrated' against God and against my brothers and sisters. I was compelled to stand
I originally signed in under the new nic John1and1 .
I had posted a VERY short time, but was in an interesting conversation and i bet my nic lol, that i was right, BUT this time i was wrong, so i kept my word and retired my nic, and Now i post Exclusively as "Time2BCounted"


So you see my first nic, WolfBitnGodSmitten was spacial to me (Though not popular among Atheists lol)

But now Time2BCounted is who i am and what i want to be,

This is my story and if i have wronged you in these things tell me, and i am sorry.
I feel i am not wrong in these things.
I felt it was neccessary too, to go into not just the facts from my point of view, but also the context of the circumstances that i believe were reasons or agendas behind the actions.

I dont know what protocall is, but according to whatever you all decide you want, this is how i feel.

I dont feel i was justly banned in the first place, but i hold nothing against those who banned me and i forgive them
I feel now too that i am being leveraged for a political agenda not by any of the admin specificly, but i do believe they may be feel under pressures. I believe this is an effort to silence 2 agendas on my plate. I certainly dont think any mods are responsible, except for allowing things to happen here they shouldnt have and then seeing those of us who were already under assault as the problem. Imho this is wrong we are all here as conservative believers, and this IS our CONGREGATION so everyone that keeps saying this isnt a church imho youre sadly mistaken. We ARE. And this being our congregation we should be allowed to protect it and not have to take people on here that wont let us be DOERS of the word
I have suggested an outline of a plan and i do suggest we adopt something LIKE that anyway.

I also feel this place needs a mod that WILL keep the peace, not that the others dont try, but frankly i would be faster to act and it doesnt hurt my feelings to confront or be confronted. I am willing to be that for you and be fair and inviting and loving, but i WILL take care of business quickly if needed with no hesitation, but in love and fairness.

I was elected once for these very same qualities.
If you want me i will do my best to be this and do this, i WILL perform my duties and i CAN defend this forum in the debate sub forum along with Simon Nadiine NewGuy Miracle_Storm IamRedeemed, Auntie, and others, and we will show those who doubt both us as a congregation AND GOD, that not only is God God, but we can do great things here and He can glorify Himself through us. We can heal and be healed. So if you want me, and if Admin sees fit to allow it, i will be here. I forgive anything and everything and just want us to love and truly be loved and DO in whichever forum we DO. If admin can see fit to forgive ME for not putting these things on my applicaiton and restore me, if this is what would be wanted, i would be thankful and i too also forgive and love and we can all just work togetherin love and peace and equity.

Also though i'm not taking anything for granted. It very well could be most wouldnt want me reinstated as a mod or even be a part of the congregation. Thats ok, it dont change how i feel or what i will try to do to please God and it doesnt change the fact i really do care for this place and everyone here.
I dont have hard feelings for anything that happened, against anyone, i sincerely love you all. Also i will offer you this. If you want me to even resign from this forum, i still love you and i will.


Thats the story, all of it to my knowledge

 

[icedtea]

Hes a good guy. Oh its funny, moderator-dom.
Some people have personal vendettas and may want some mods out or vote against them out of personal bias.

 

[free2be]

Still praying for you, bro. Love you.

 

[Lisa0315]

He should have revealed that in his moderator application. I knew him as WolfBitten and that name is listed as one of my buddies. I don't actually remember the subject that we posted about though.

I don't know how I feel about this as I was the one who submitted him for consideration as a mod. There have been other mods who were elected under a new name but they were very upfront about it. It leaves me feeling a bit betrayed because we could not look at his posts under his other name and make a judgement about him accordingly.

Lisa

 

[Father Rick]

So...

If I'm reading Time's post correctly...

1) He debated a lot under a different username (not against rules).
2) He created "anger and division" (which may have been against previous rules-- depending on when this happened/which rules were in place at that time).
3) He flamed... but not as much as others. (flaming has always been against the rules)
4) He was banned for "bypassing a previous ban" (he states there was no previous ban).
5) Instead of appealing, he bypassed that ban and created a new account (which would dictate an immediate ban--very much against rules).
6) He ran for mod... to be one who enforces the rules.


Ok... as someone who has been on staff off and on for about 2 out of the past 3 years...

First, I'm surprised that he was not perm banned for the the current "bypassing a ban". Even if he didn't bypass a ban the first time, this time he definitely is. I know he feels that that ban was unjustified, but that's why there is an appeals process in place... so that if someone does have action taken against them that shouldn't be taken they can prove their case and have the action reversed. To me, it sounds like he is being extended grace by not being banned completely (which is what protocol would dictate).

If Time, as a mod, gives someone an fsb from CC... what if the person feels it isn't deserved? Can the person just keep posting anyway... or create a new username and post under that? Would it be appropriate for Time to then discipline the person for violating the ban... when Time was doing exactly the same thing himself? For that matter, how could he enforce ANY rule violations, when every post he makes would be a rule violation itself?

I don't know what happened the first go around, whether Time actually bypassed a ban or not. And I know that the appeals process can be a royal pain sometimes. But how can a mod expect others to have to follow these protocols if they're not willing to do the same themself?

 

[IamRedeemed]

Hi SA,

Time asked me to pass this message to to you on his behalf. I doesn't seem like it contains anything
that would need a staff approval.

To the Mods: If I am out of line for passing this on, please let me know.

"i said i would address everything. Yes some people DO say i am a bit of a wild man at times when i deem it appropriate.

i sure dont deny that

But they have also seen how i PREFER to treat people when they come in here with love and respect Imho"

 

[IamRedeemed]

To Lisa and Rick,

Time asked that I would pass this along to you on his behalf.

(To the Mods: If this is out of line for me to do this for Time, then I think the talking about Time while he is unable to defend himself needs to cease until such time as he is permitted to post himself.)

Time2BCounted][/b]

"How are you Lisa and Rick


Yes i could have, and no one knew me. Who wants to be kicked off a board again for something they didnt do in the first place. I felt betrayed too when i was banned by some who claim to be christian and yet knew they had no valid reason.

There were times you let me down too and i forgive you, i need nothing in return

But i was going to stand for right and i have

As i said though if those who tell some if us that we should be loving and tollerant and forgiving and tickle and softshow while we are overrun by others with another agenda, i think those who are likeminded owe one another at least the same considerations but i also realize this wont always be the case.

I have been invited to join the nondenom forum and the baptist forum if im not wanted here.

Either way is fine with me, im just here to do God's will"

He should have revealed that in his moderator application. I knew him as WolfBitten and that name is listed as one of my buddies. I don't actually remember the subject that we posted about though.

I don't know how I feel about this as I was the one who submitted him for consideration as a mod. There have been other mods who were elected under a new name but they were very upfront about it. It leaves me feeling a bit betrayed because we could not look at his posts under his other name and make a judgement about him accordingly.

Lisa

So...

If I'm reading Time's post correctly...

1) He debated a lot under a different username (not against rules).
2) He created "anger and division" (which may have been against previous rules-- depending on when this happened/which rules were in place at that time).
3) He flamed... but not as much as others. (flaming has always been against the rules)
4) He was banned for "bypassing a previous ban" (he states there was no previous ban).
5) Instead of appealing, he bypassed that ban and created a new account (which would dictate an immediate ban--very much against rules).
6) He ran for mod... to be one who enforces the rules.


Ok... as someone who has been on staff off and on for about 2 out of the past 3 years...

First, I'm surprised that he was not perm banned for the the current "bypassing a ban". Even if he didn't bypass a ban the first time, this time he definitely is. I know he feels that that ban was unjustified, but that's why there is an appeals process in place... so that if someone does have action taken against them that shouldn't be taken they can prove their case and have the action reversed. To me, it sounds like he is being extended grace by not being banned completely (which is what protocol would dictate).

If Time, as a mod, gives someone an fsb from CC... what if the person feels it isn't deserved? Can the person just keep posting anyway... or create a new username and post under that? Would it be appropriate for Time to then discipline the person for violating the ban... when Time was doing exactly the same thing himself? For that matter, how could he enforce ANY rule violations, when every post he makes would be a rule violation itself?

I don't know what happened the first go around, whether Time actually bypassed a ban or not. And I know that the appeals process can be a royal pain sometimes. But how can a mod expect others to have to follow these protocols if they're not willing to do the same themself?

 

[IamRedeemed]

From Time2BCounted to all of CC

To CC

This will be my last post for now, unless someone has direct questions they want to ask. This is my statement as WolfBitnGodSmittn

http://foru.ms/showpost.php?p=36043663&postcount=15


Quote:
Originally Posted by WolfBitnGodSmittn
I am certainly a literally minded Christian, and i love what the founding fathers gave to my nation. On the other hand i despise what we have become and believe the bush regime to be a criminal element.

I dont believe in war mongering, nor do i believe in profiteering. I dont believe in corraling the people. I dont believe we should be allowed to get away wiht "Gulf on Tonkin" incidents, which was a ruse to allow us to enter the vietnam war full force. I dont believe in the weapons of mass destruction ruse concerning Iraq, which didnt fool the world anyway, and we attacked anyway despite world-wide outcries against it. I dont believe in the elimination of our constitution, and i will remain a free man in spite of the facts now surrounding us, in a peaceful but bold fashion.

I dont believe in socialization, i believe in people being encouraged to stand on their own 2 feet if they are able, and YET i believe in charity, and taking care of all who are truly in need.

I believe if the entire world were to love their neighbor as themselves and love God and His precepts above all things, this would be an entirely differant and wonderful world.

 

[Father Rick]

Yes i could have, and no one knew me. Who wants to be kicked off a board again for something they didnt do in the first place. I felt betrayed too when i was banned by some who claim to be christian and yet knew they had no valid reason.

There were times you let me down too and i forgive you, i need nothing in return

But i was going to stand for right and i have

I've been around here long enough that I've had action taken against me that I felt was completely unfair/undeserved. And I've felt betrayed, etc. when that happened... so I understand what you are saying.

However...being fair to everyone in the situation... while you feel that the ban against you was unjust, staff don't just ban people for no reason--especially a ban for "bypassing". They run ip checks, email checks, etc. first to confirm it is the same person... and all of this would be documented in the old archive files (and for those who may not know, the old confidential reports still exist). So... my guess would be that if the ban was unjustified it was the result of an honest mistake by staff-- after running ip checks, etc.

Even when staff do the best they can, there are still mistakes occasionally. I don't know all the techie stuff, but I know that occasionally ip addresses come up funny, etc.

That's why there is an appeals process. Just in case there is some kind of mistake that happens. And as aggravating as it is... even when the action taken truly is unjustified, one has to go through that process-- not just take matters into their own hands and decide "Well, the rules don't apply to me" because someone made a mistake. If it was a mistake, or even deliberate misconduct by the staff issuing the ban, then the appeal would reveal such and the ban would be lifted.

This is the process that every person has to go through. As a staff member, I have to go through the exact same process as every other member. I'm not above the rules... nor would I dare think I can enforce rules on others that I am not willing to submit myself to as well.

And I realize that as staff, I may make a mistake. I do my very best to be fair to everyone involved in a situation. I am very careful to document everything and check all the documentation before I take action... but I realize that I am human and may make a mistake. And the same applies to all staff. If I, as staff, make a mistake does that mean the poster I took action against should say "the staff messed up, so I'm going to ignore them and keep doing whatever I want"? No... they will have to file an appeal-- just like I have had to file appeals. And if it was my mistake, then they would win the appeal (just as I won my appeals).

To me, that's the issue here. The rules aren't perfect. The staff isn't perfect. But, if one is going to be enforcing the rules, then one should also be willing to submit oneself to them (even when one feels at mistake was made) and be willing to go through the exact same process that everyone else has to go through.

 

[~*Lady Trekki*~]

To Lisa and Rick,

Time asked that I would pass this along to you on his behalf.

(To the Mods: If this is out of line for me to do this for Time, then I think the talking about Time while he is unable to defend himself needs to cease until such time as he is permitted to post himself.)

I don't see a problem Redeemed. As long as it's only for defense purposes. If people start posting in other areas of CC for Time, that would be excessive imo.

Thank you for clearing up the questions Time.

 

[BelindaP]

Here's the deal.

I've reviewed the old files. I believe in my heart that the ban was the result of a case of mistaken identity. All Time would have needed to do was to contact the Ombudsman, and his ban would almost certainly have been overturned.

Instead, he created a new identity (actually more than one, if you really want to know). He posted under false pretenses and then applied to be mod. In doing so, he lied to everyone here. Every post was a lie. There were those of us who suspected he was a sock and asked him about it. He lied to us and denied it.

It was only when he was found out and presented with irrefutable proof that he confessed to it. So, he comes in here and posts a thread about it. No apologies for lying. No apologies for breaking the rules--just justifications (because it was unfair).

I'm sorry. But fair is fair. He should have owned up to it and accepted a ban. That's what Christians do. They accept responsibility when the break the rules--and they take the consequences for those rule breaks. Had he done that, he could have still appealed for grace and asked for a vote to be allowed back on the site. There is a protocol in place to do that, and we have done that in the CR. He would have almost-certainly been shown grace and allowed back on.

Instead, he decries the unfairness of it all and justifies his actions on that basis.

Let me ask you all this: Did the Christian martyrs complain about the unfairness of the regime that murdered thousands upon thousands of them? No. Instead, they praised God that they had the opportunity to suffer in his name.

Did the thief on the cross ask Jesus to release him from his torment? No. He berated the other thief for even suggesting it. He owned up to what he had done and thought his punishment was just.

I personally think Time's attitude stinks. Imo, he could use a dose of humility. He has yet to apologize for anything. Instead, it is self-justifications and calls to fairness based on him being a Christian brother.

Brother, I call upon you to walk in Jesus' footsteps and the footsteps of those before you. Own up to what you did. Apologize and accept the just consequences for what you did. Then, and only then, will you be deserving of the grace to which you think you are entitled.

 

[Miracle Storm]

Here's the deal.

I've reviewed the old files. I believe in my heart that the ban was the result of a case of mistaken identity. All Time would have needed to do was to contact the Ombudsman, and his ban would almost certainly have been overturned.

Thank you for that. We know that to be true as does he.
Contact the ombudsman? Maybe he didn't know he could do that, but he did send an email to staff with no reply trying to explain....

Instead, he created a new identity (actually more than one, if you really want to know).

The John one was created as his account he wagered the name and lost it, gave it to someone else and that is how he came to be Time2Bcounted. It wasn't as if he was trying to troll up the place. He was trying to replace what had wrongly been taken from him and didn't know how to go about getting his original name back. If it would be now I certainly would go to bat for him in ANY appeal.

He posted under false pretenses and then applied to be mod. In doing so, he lied to everyone here. Every post was a lie. There were those of us who suspected he was a sock and asked him about it. He lied to us and denied it.

He didn't believe it was a sock as you think it to be. WBGS was banned under false pretenses, which caused him to create a new account which he traded off and his name became T2BC.
So ultimately, no matter how you look at it HE ISN'T A SOCK account and he didn't lie if you asked him if he had a sock and he said no. He said what he believed to be truth.
I knew that his name had once been WBGS, but HE WAS NOT A SOCK ACCOUNT, only as you all see it.
A bogus ban had taken place.
He has been himself this whole time, he is truthful now.
He didn't even have to come out with this, in the other thread Tishri even said there would be information general membership would not be privy to. He knew that before I posted this...

It was only when he was found out and presented with irrefutable proof that he confessed to it. So, he comes in here and posts a thread about it. No apologies for lying. No apologies for breaking the rules--just justifications (because it was unfair).

I don't think he owes ANYONE an apology.
He was banned by a case of mistaken identity as you even stated.
No one would listen to him, so he created a new account. So what? He shouldn't have been banned in the first place.
As far as I'm concerned he didn't break rules, it was staff's mistake.

I'm sorry. But fair is fair.

That's right Belinda. Fair is fair and so his account that was done away with should be reinstated and the rest forgiven. That would only be fair to time.

He should have owned up to it and accepted a ban.

Accepted a false ban for "mistaken identity" is that what you would do belinda?

That's what Christians do. They accept responsibility when the break the rules--and they take the consequences for those rule breaks.

What are you talking about? You yourself admitted he was banned by a case of mistaken identity. Had he revealed other information sooner it might have happened again.

Had he done that, he could have still appealed for grace and asked for a vote to be allowed back on the site.

Grace? Grace for what? He had done nothing, as you have said.

There is a protocol in place to do that, and we have done that in the CR. He would have almost-certainly been shown grace and allowed back on.

How was he to know who to contact? How was he to know what would be done. He had already tried emailing staff to no avail.

Instead, he decries the unfairness of it all and justifies his actions on that basis.

It is justified imho.
Because others actions, for lack of better words, really screwed him over!

Let me ask you all this: Did the Christian martyrs complain about the unfairness of the regime that murdered thousands upon thousands of them?

Are you now comparing him coming back to a message board to martyrdom? :o

No. Instead, they praised God that they had the opportunity to suffer in his name.

He does praise God.
Belinda he wanted this information out there no matter what happened to him.

Did the thief on the cross ask Jesus to release him from his torment? No. He berated the other thief for even suggesting it. He owned up to what he had done and thought his punishment was just.

What are you doing Belinda?
This is nonsense.
You who is without sin, cast the first stone!!!

I personally think Time's attitude stinks.

I personally think your post stinks...

Imo, he could use a dose of humility.

In my humble opinion I think you could too...

He has yet to apologize for anything.

You don't know what he has done in personal messages, and in my opinion he doesn't owe an apology and if he did it certainly wouldn't be to you!

Instead, it is self-justifications and calls to fairness based on him being a Christian brother.

Fair is fair belinda.
This is not a trial, but an explanation of his actions and why he did what he did. I see them as justified.

Brother, I call upon you to walk in Jesus' footsteps and the footsteps of those before you. Own up to what you did. Apologize and accept the just consequences for what you did. Then, and only then, will you be deserving of the grace to which you think you are entitled.

Wow!
Belinda I call on you to take a big long look in the mirror and stare back into that accusing face.

 

[icedtea]

Amen Miracle! Seems there is an agenda, I've even gotten heat for being his buddy.

 

[BelindaP]

MS, the double-standard you apply to your friends versus those you don't like is amazing to me. If anyone you didn't like had done this, you would have been on them like bees on honey, calling for permabans and everything else. I've said my piece. You can criticize it all you want, but it is solid Christian advice. No agendas--simply seeking justice.

 

[Miracle Storm]

MS, the double-standard you apply to your friends versus those you don't like is amazing to me. If anyone you didn't like had done this, you would have been on them like bees on honey, calling for permabans and everything else. I've said my piece. You can criticize it all you want, but it is solid Christian advice. No agendas--simply seeking justice.

LOL
You don't know a spitting thing about me Belinda.
Justice is served by T2BC keeping his postion on staff and his former name being cleared. Hello?
You are the one that has been criticizing Belinda. Hello?
I have never shouted for anyone to be perma banned.
Show me one place, please oh pretty please. Or stop with your false accusations thrown out as a red herring to my post...

 

[~*Lady Trekki*~]

Ladies...please don't make this a flame fest.

 

[icedtea]

MS, the double-standard you apply to your friends versus those you don't like is amazing to me.

You could be talking about yourself..

 

[ReformedChapin]

MS, the double-standard you apply to your friends versus those you don't like is amazing to me. If anyone you didn't like had done this, you would have been on them like bees on honey, calling for permabans and everything else. I've said my piece. You can criticize it all you want, but it is solid Christian advice. No agendas--simply seeking justice.

I really doubt you would wanta solid Christian brother who was unfairly banned out a forum that needs him SO MUCH.

ODD...

 

[IamRedeemed]

Thank you Lady Trekki

Yes, that is all he asked me to post
those few responses for. I agree anything above that would surely be out of line! hahaha

Thanks again. God bless!

I don't see a problem Redeemed. As long as it's only for defense purposes. If people start posting in other areas of CC for Time, that would be excessive imo.

Thank you for clearing up the questions Time.

 

[~*Lady Trekki*~]

Thank you Lady Trekki

Yes, that is all he asked me to post
those few responses for. I agree anything above that would surely be out of line! hahaha

Thanks again. God bless!

God bless you as well...