Time2BCounted

[GreenMunchkin]

Please, could I ask you all to walk away and pray about this?

But this is becoming flamey ​

 

[Father Rick]

MS and HD...

You do realize that one of the questions on both the current and the old mod app's is "do you have other foru.ms accounts?" Obviously this is something Time was not honest about. He could have chosen to admit he had a banned account, but did not do so.

And... ombudsman or not, there has been an appeals system in process for years. If the first ban was a case of mistaken identity, the appeal would have revealed that and his account would have been unbanned. Again, he chose not to do that.

Then he chose to apply for staff, knowing the current rules... knowing that he had created a new account to bypass a ban, because he felt the ban was unfair.

So, even if the first ban was unfair... he knowingly bypassed to create a new account. (And he did this knowing that the consequences for such would be an immediate ban-- remember, he had just gone through this).

Even then, he could have contacted the ombudsman--or even filed an appeal on the old account-- but chose not to. He knew that, if he were to come on staff, if he encounter ANY accounts that were a bypass of a ban (regardless of the reason for the ban) that he would be obligated to report that account and see that the account was perm banned. If he were being honest, his first act as a mod trainee would have been to report himself...

With all of this, quite frankly, the standard protocol for his actions would be an immediate permanent ban from the site. However, staff is extending grace and not permanently banning. If anyone had an "agenda" or was trying to "silence" him or whatever... then all staff would have to do is follow protocol, banning him completely, rather than extending grace and giving him the chance to stay and voice his opinion.

 

[icedtea]

You make good points, Father.

 

[Nadiine]

[snip]

I"m not pleased by it.


Editing but my stay by my issues. Frick you can edit the
quote you made in your reply.

 

[BelindaP]

These aren't accusations, Nadiine. They are responses to admissions he has made himself. Big difference.

 

[GreenMunchkin]

Nadiine, that's not a fair analysis of what Father Rick has said

This thread was started about Eric. Its purpose isn't to be one-sided, is it?

Father Rick hasn't denigrated Eric, at all. He's saying what's happened

 

[Miracle Storm]

MS and HD...

You do realize that one of the questions on both the current and the old mod app's is "do you have other foru.ms accounts?" Obviously this is something Time was not honest about. He could have chosen to admit he had a banned account, but did not do so.

He no longer considered that "his" account.
It was wrongly taken from him.
When he told me of the name he once used, before this all came down he told me he did not consider his new account a sock account.
The other one was gone, taken.....

And... ombudsman or not, there has been an appeals system in process for years. If the first ban was a case of mistaken identity, the appeal would have revealed that and his account would have been unbanned. Again, he chose not to do that.

Some were not so good at knowing how to use that system or even know it existed. As I stated he did email staff, at the very least they could have sent him an email back instructing him what measures he could take, such as an appeal.

Then he chose to apply for staff, knowing the current rules... knowing that he had created a new account to bypass a ban, because he felt the ban was unfair.

He considered the other account non existant. It was falsely taken from him. You have to look from his eyes for a momment. When he came back to ForU.ms it wasn't with the thought that he was going to be on staff I believe, but things took on a life of there own imo.

So, even if the first ban was unfair... he knowingly bypassed to create a new account. (And he did this knowing that the consequences for such would be an immediate ban-- remember, he had just gone through this).

Even then, he could have contacted the ombudsman--or even filed an appeal on the old account-- but chose not to. He knew that, if he were to come on staff, if he encounter ANY accounts that were a bypass of a ban (regardless of the reason for the ban) that he would be obligated to report that account and see that the account was perm banned. If he were being honest, his first act as a mod trainee would have been to report himself...

With all of this, quite frankly, the standard protocol for his actions would be an immediate permanent ban from the site. However, staff is extending grace and not permanently banning. If anyone had an "agenda" or was trying to "silence" him or whatever... then all staff would have to do is follow protocol, banning him completely, rather than extending grace and giving him the chance to stay and voice his opinion.

His old name should be cleared and his staff position be reinstated.
He did not percieve this as deception.
Old account was gone, no sock.

7 day CC ban was hidden and other stuff remained hidden. I am not claiming "agenda" except for some who I know want him gone for their own reasons....

We however, the majority of CC members, I would reckon want him to stay and to remain on staff as well.
It is justified considering his other account was taken from him unjustly...my humble opinion FRick

 

[icedtea]

7 day CC ban was hidden and other stuff remained hidden. I am not claiming "agenda" except for some who I know want him gone for their own reasons....

Once he spoke against miqlat, you knew his days were numbered.

 

[Nadiine]

Nadiine, that's not a fair analysis of what Father Rick has said

This thread was started about Eric. Its purpose isn't to be one-sided, is it?

Father Rick hasn't denigrated Eric, at all. He's saying what's happened

I think T2BC should be here to present his own case - if I was silenced, having to read this, I'd be fuming that I couldn't speak up to give any answers.

They are under staff review and his case shouldn't be drudged out in public like this, should it?

 

[BelindaP]

Nadiine, he chose to ask for it to be posted here. That says to me that he invites discussion.

 

[Father Rick]

Not even double repeating your quote.

Here you are AGAIN on Time's case(s) -

Other people who know the rules are aware of the details of his issues and are claiming this is wrong to be done to him.

I've seen all I need to see to form my opinion of your deeper issues with him. It's almost a preoccupation imho.
HE IS NOT HERE TO DEFEND HIMSELF.
Since you continue beating this drum of accusing him publically without waiting till he can present his side, I do form my opinion of your actions here in this forum and I"m not pleased by it.

While you are free to form any opinions you may, remember, I didn't know Time until a few days ago. I can only address the specific actions that I have seen.

If you review my posts here (as well as my other posts) you will find that I have only dealt with specific behaviors. I have made no judgements of his intent or motives.

AND... I am only addressing what Time has presented as being the situation. Do you see anything contained in my post above that is not the same as what Time, himself, said he did?

I have been told that he did others things as well-- but since I haven't had a chance to ask him, nor would he have a chance to publicly refute them, I haven't addressed any of those things... since I don't know the full story.

I know that Time is your friend, and I commend your loyalty to him. I just ask that you look at and make judgements based on his actual actions in this specific situation.

 

[Nadiine]

He no longer considered that "his" account.
It was wrongly taken from him.
When he told me of the name he once used, before this all came down he told me he did not consider his new account a sock account.
The other one was gone, taken.....
Some were not so good at knowing how to use that system or even know it existed. As I stated he did email staff, at the very least they could have sent him an email back instructing him what measures he could take, such as an appeal.
He considered the other account non existant. It was falsely taken from him. You have to look from his eyes for a momment. When he came back to ForU.ms it wasn't with the thought that he was going to be on staff I believe, but things took on a life of there own imo.

His old name should be cleared and his staff position be reinstated.
He did not percieve this as deception.
Old account was gone, no sock.

7 day CC ban was hidden and other stuff remained hidden. I am not claiming "agenda" except for some who I know want him gone for their own reasons....

We however, the majority of CC members, I would reckon want him to stay and to remain on staff as well.
It is justified considering his other account was taken from him unjustly...my humble opinion FRick

Well thank you Miracle for coming to give some details that I'm sure Time would have loved to be able to give here himself.

 

[PastorDiane]

I've been around here long enough that I've had action taken against me that I felt was completely unfair/undeserved. And I've felt betrayed, etc. when that happened... so I understand what you are saying.

However...being fair to everyone in the situation... while you feel that the ban against you was unjust, staff don't just ban people for no reason--especially a ban for "bypassing". They run ip checks, email checks, etc. first to confirm it is the same person... and all of this would be documented in the old archive files (and for those who may not know, the old confidential reports still exist). So... my guess would be that if the ban was unjustified it was the result of an honest mistake by staff-- after running ip checks, etc.

Even when staff do the best they can, there are still mistakes occasionally. I don't know all the techie stuff, but I know that occasionally ip addresses come up funny, etc.

That's why there is an appeals process. Just in case there is some kind of mistake that happens. And as aggravating as it is... even when the action taken truly is unjustified, one has to go through that process-- not just take matters into their own hands and decide "Well, the rules don't apply to me" because someone made a mistake. If it was a mistake, or even deliberate misconduct by the staff issuing the ban, then the appeal would reveal such and the ban would be lifted.

This is the process that every person has to go through. As a staff member, I have to go through the exact same process as every other member. I'm not above the rules... nor would I dare think I can enforce rules on others that I am not willing to submit myself to as well.

And I realize that as staff, I may make a mistake. I do my very best to be fair to everyone involved in a situation. I am very careful to document everything and check all the documentation before I take action... but I realize that I am human and may make a mistake. And the same applies to all staff. If I, as staff, make a mistake does that mean the poster I took action against should say "the staff messed up, so I'm going to ignore them and keep doing whatever I want"? No... they will have to file an appeal-- just like I have had to file appeals. And if it was my mistake, then they would win the appeal (just as I won my appeals).

To me, that's the issue here. The rules aren't perfect. The staff isn't perfect. But, if one is going to be enforcing the rules, then one should also be willing to submit oneself to them (even when one feels at mistake was made) and be willing to go through the exact same process that everyone else has to go through.

I totally agree!!!!!

My opinion:remove the ban allow him in and do not let him be a mod till he proves himself, isnt that according to scripture? Is forgiveness still available? Do we not want to support the hurt and nurture them in truth and help build character? of course a lot depends on his desire to submit to authority?

 

[Nadiine]

While you are free to form any opinions you may, remember, I didn't know Time until a few days ago. I can only address the specific actions that I have seen.

If you review my posts here (as well as my other posts) you will find that I have only dealt with specific behaviors. I have made no judgements of his intent or motives.

AND... I am only addressing what Time has presented as being the situation. Do you see anything contained in my post above that is not the same as what Time, himself, said he did?

I have been told that he did others things as well-- but since I haven't had a chance to ask him, nor would he have a chance to publicly refute them, I haven't addressed any of those things... since I don't know the full story.

I know that Time is your friend, and I commend your loyalty to him. I just ask that you look at and make judgements based on his actual actions in this specific situation.

In all honestly, this is a pet peeve I have, so even if I were't his friend, I'd be this feisty on the subject.


I would much rather wait for the right parties to do what they need to do in private or whatever than to see someone silenced while their case & issues are judged in a thread.
(even if he's ok with it, he cannot continue his defense when one person goes into something he can't defend).

Unless we're going to go back & forth with PM's so we can post his replies in 3rd person format....


I'll change my earlier post so it's not as angry, but I dislike this whole exchange process until he's able to properly reply in fairness.

 

[Nadiine]

Once he spoke against miqlat, you knew his days were numbered.

You probly hit the nail on the head here HD.

 

[Lisa0315]

You probly hit the nail on the head here HD.

That is exactly the kind of unfounded accusation that is tearing CC apart. Why do y'all have to do this?

Lisa

 

[GreenMunchkin]

For the record, it has nothing to do with Refuge.

 

[Miracle Storm]

This post by Admin Tishri, early this morning, shows he is still staff
That is by my understanding anyway and she at that time having all information needed.

 

[Nadiine]

That is exactly the kind of unfounded accusation that is tearing CC apart. Why do y'all have to do this?

Lisa

Lisa, I don't even KNOW who's involved with that whole mess. All I know is, all this started right when that mess started happening - it was a snowball effect.

I know some superficial details of his old account issues but nothing more with who's involved "people wise".
That's when people started filing in here to join up & the reports all started flying on him...
Thats why I had an agreement with HD (which I don't know why you didn't address HD for her comment? She brought this up herself; I just agreed for my own personal reasons of timing - please ask her or confront her with tearing cc apart over her comment).
People? I have no idea who's involved w/ the whole BM & frankly, I don't want to know.
I'm unbiased on that issue entirely.

Please don't accuse me of tearing cC apart, I've been here around the clock trying to find solutions & praying about this forum & all of us in it.

 

[Nadiine]

a ps. to my post --
I wasn't pointing blame at "people", but how Satan works. People can be used by Satan when they don't even realize it (usually in innocent ignorance)... none of us are exempt - and I certainly don't disclude myself.

This entire site is going thru spiritual battles.