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I know I said I wouldn't be offended..I should've deleted that and just left the "it's not applicable" bit.Well now you seem to be saying that such a comparison is somehow not an act of love at all.
Worse you seem to be offended. You specifically said you would not be
It wouldnt offend me http://christianforums.com/showpost.php?p=45572779&postcount=54
Why are you offended?
Whatever, Being gay is as bad as eating meat offered to idols in front of a brother who is struggling, it doesn't make it anymore right.Really? Then why not compare it to things less visceral? Say "Being gay is as bad as over eating!" or "Being gay is as bad as judging your brother!"? You want to know why people don't say it like that? Because it doesn't sound as nasty. People in the Church make excuses for people who over eat or people who judge others, but like it or not most people see a hierarchy of sin, and in that hierarchy being gay is seen as the same as being a pedophile, not someone who judges others. See the difference?
tulc(one of those things you learn on your way to trying to be a compassionate Christian)
Whatever, Being gay is as bad as eating meat offered to idols in front of a brother who is struggling, it doesn't make it anymore right.
The act.Ishida, what does 'being gay' mean to you? Are you referring to 'the act of sodomy' or are you referring to one's 'sexual predisposition?'
Some of these posts are so vague that it's a wonder anyone knows what someone else is talking about. What exactly is 'the sin of homosexuality' that some of you keep referring to?
'Being gay' . . .what DOES that even mean to most of you?
Dear David Brider,
Ok of you are so observant please show me, I will not be surprised if there are instances I am quite prepared to be corrected, but please show me some phrases which indicate this.
No Biblical texts are out of context in themselves, and it is the actual Biblical texts that cause the trouble.
Of the texts given I see denying what the Biblical texts say as justifying disbelief and an indication of hatred against Gods word,
how come? When I was referring to those of us who believe Jesus Christs Biblical testimony as in 1 Corinthians 6:9 NIV Do you not know that the wicked will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor male prostitutes nor homosexual offenders nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God. And that is what some of you were. But you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God. I would say many round here dont believe in Jesus Christs Biblical testimony.
Whatever, Being gay is as bad as eating meat offered to idols in front of a brother who is struggling, it doesn't make it anymore right.
Sex with people of the same gender. Come now, you know this.What "act" does being gay involve?
David.
Sex with people of the same gender. Come now, you know this.
I'd have to disagree. I don't believe one is a homosexual unless they've had homosexual sex. Just like one is not a liar until they've lied, or an adulterer until they've commited adultery. Thankfully Christians are none of these things in their new, sanctified life in Christ through the Holy Spirit.Being gay involves being inclined to be attracted to people of the same gender as oneself.
In much the same way that being straight involves being inclined to be attracted to people of the same gender as oneself.
The actual physical sex bit of the equation is not necessary to being gay or being straight. Someone can be gay or straight and never have had physical sex.
Surely you know this?
David.
I'd have to disagree. I don't believe one is a homosexual unless they've had homosexual sex.
I didnt say you called anyone anything.I know I said I wouldn't be offended..I should've deleted that and just left the "it's not applicable" bit.
But still, the difference here is that it is a lie, and I never lied and called homosexuals pedophiles. I merely called them sinners.
People are gay no matter what they are doing.The act.
Are people who are virgins heterosexual?I'd have to disagree. I don't believe one is a homosexual unless they've had homosexual sex. Just like one is not a liar until they've lied, or an adulterer until they've commited adultery. Thankfully Christians are none of these things in their new, sanctified life in Christ through the Holy Spirit.
I'm not naming names, but there are some folks, in some threads (including, but not limited to, this one) whose attitude to homosexual men and women appears to be motivated by hatred rather than love. It's not difficult to spot. I suggest you go through some of the threads with an open mind and ask yourself: If you were a homosexual man or woman reading some of this material, would you honestly, in your heart of hearts, believe that the people typing some of these messages were doing so in a spirit of love, or out of hatred?
No, it's not the Biblical texts per se that are the problem, it's the attitude of hostility with which they're sometimes communicated.
We've been over this before. You seem unwilling to countenance any interpretation or translation of the texts other than the one you agree with, and have decided that all such differing interpretations and translations indicate disbelief and hatred against God's word.
You are wrong about this.
I'd say you're wrong to limit Jesus Christ's Biblical testimony to two verses which don't even mention Him.
Jesus Christ's Biblical testimony IMO is firstly, the gospel records of His life on earth, and secondly, the rest of the Bible (since He's part of the Trinity), and throughout that, the message that comes to the fore for me is that, yes, we're all sinners who've fallen short of God's glory, but through Jesus we can have eternal life as children of God. Personally, I think that's wonderful and glorious and something to be celebrated, and I'm not sure that constantly haranguing homosexual men and women really does anything to celebrate it, or to bring those homosexual men and women who aren't Christians any closer to being Christians (as opposed to driving them further away from the Kingdom than they might already be).
Your experience may differ.
Precisely. In fact, if one is TRULY considerate of the homosexual they would not keep producing these (few) and ambiguous scriptures to begin with.
Please do not generalize about those who intensely study and follow scripture. It's not about not-thinking for ourselves, its about someone making a statement that they proclaim is truth, or biblically backed, and then a counter-point being produced. The bible defines sin, as well as our relationship to God, so it is an integral point in our walk with Him, at least for me it is, anyway.Furthermore, the average homosexual has heard them all a million times previously. A mere reading of them or having them thrust upon them NEVER turned a 'gay' person 'straight.' There is absolutely no point in trying to drive home something that likely does not apply to them anyway. The Bible-thumpers need to give it a rest and start to think for themselves.
To be honest, I don't much care if 'they' consider that they are right or wrong. At the end of the day they are quoting mere WORDS from a book (albeit the Bible) that do NOT affect one's sexual disposition one way or the other. In fact, I would like to hear from one former homosexual on this forum who is now a heterosexual after having been constantly bombarded on these threads with a few ambiguous texts from the Bible.
I can't help you with that. Although, calling the bible a 'mere book', and stating that the texts (on this subject) are 'ambiguous' I feel is misguided.Just one!
Not entirely, but Paul's direction was under the guidance of the Holy Spirit, not unlike the rest of scripture.Oh, I SO agree with you on this. The words of Paul, a mere mortal, become the words of God.
No one ever said Paul is God, and it is agreed that He spoke the things of God. The same goes for luke, matthew, john, the OT writers, etc.Isn't this tantamount to blasphemy?
Jesus didn't say anything in the bible at all. All we read is what someone said that Jesus said. With the case of Luke, he wrote his gospel as well as most (if not all) of Paul's epistles. So basically, you aren't going by what Jesus said, you are going by what matthew, mark, luke, and john say that Jesus said. If you distrust Paul's epistles, then you must also distrust the rest of scripture on the same point.The thing is, Jesus said NARY A WORD about homosexuality. So, if we go by the words of Jesus alone, homosexuality is not even an issue.
Well Ishida refused to actually answer the questions of this post. Maybe you will be honest enough to do so
<staff edit>Christian groups routinely and knowingly lie about homosexuals and homosexuality. How is this not an act of hate?
Ex-gay ministries routinely and knowingly lie about homosexuals and homosexuality. How is this not an act of hate?
How is advocating discrimination against an entire minority not an act of hate?
How is comparing gays and lesbians to pedophiles, murders, thieves, liars not an act of hate?
I didn’t ask you to name names, I asked you to show me the phrases, and it is difficult to spot as I don’t see any… hence the reason I asked you.I'm not naming names, but there are some folks, in some threads (including, but not limited to, this one) whose attitude to homosexual men and women appears to be motivated by hatred rather than love. It's not difficult to spot. I suggest you go through some of the threads with an open mind and ask yourself:
Well I would say the Christians are some homosexuals aren’t. I agree with you as I think Christians are to tell the gospel, following Christ’s teaching is something one does when one has accepted Christ as Lord. With gay and lesbian friends I try to share the gospel in general. I think Jesus came across this with the rich young man who wanted to justify himself. Jesus addressed his ‘barrier’ and he went away sad.If you were a homosexual man or woman reading some of this material, would you honestly, in your heart of hearts, believe that the people typing some of these messages were doing so in a spirit of love, or out of hatred?
No again I am talking about the texts themselves, I am happy with the Bible translations and can see they are ok. Some are happy to quote ‘love ones neighour as oneself’ Should I suggest a better translation would be ‘same-sex sex is error’? You try and claim texts you don’t like are interpretation. The text is the text, it says what it says., the Bible translations put before you say what they say and they are accurate.We've been over this before. You seem unwilling to countenance any interpretation or translation of the texts other than the one you agree with, and have decided that all such differing interpretations and translations indicate disbelief and hatred against God's word.
I don’t limit Jesus Christ’s Biblical testimony, you do. This was an example and one of many you limit by not believing.I'd say you're wrong to limit Jesus Christ's Biblical testimony to two verses which don't even mention Him.
On the contrary there is no homosexual or heterosexual in Christ Jesus, no male or female, Christians just tell men and women about the gospel. Of you are telling homosexual men they can be homosexual sinners and still be saved you are giving them a false gospel. This is gay theology it is gay based not Christ based.Personally, I think that's wonderful and glorious and something to be celebrated, and I'm not sure that constantly haranguing homosexual men and women really does anything to celebrate it, or to bring those homosexual men and women who aren't Christians any closer to being Christians (as opposed to driving them further away from the Kingdom than they might already be).
Dear BigBadWlf,
<staff edit>
Also on the last point, why wouldn’t we all find Jesus Christ’s teaching hateful as I am sure many of us like me are guilty of theft and lying so we are compared with murderers in Mark 7 for example? We don’t because we know from this what love has saved us. <staff edit> [/quote]
Christians don’t lie about gays and lesbians?
Since when?
Focus on the Family doesn’t’ lie about homosexuals?
The Family research council doesn’t lie about homosexuals
Concerned Woman of America Doesn’t lie about homosexuals?
NARTH doesn’t lie about homosexuals?
You must have changed the definition of lying
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