Time For This Challenge Again

[OldWiseGuy]

ow my...............

It seems like you need a serious reality check.
Newsflash: not every homeless person is a drug addict. And not every drug addict is homeless.

Just like not every Mexican immigrant is a drug dealer.



However, denying proper medical treatment because of not being able to afford expensive private insurance, IS the fault of the system.

Not having a strong enough social solidarity program to help those in need also IS a fault of the system.

But for some reason, such socialism and solidarity is seen by "US patriots" as being the root of all evil or something similar. As if it would turn the country into some kind of north korean communistic hellhole.

But honestly, that's the only reason we in Europe don't have such out-of-proportion problems with homeless people etc. Because we have much more government investments in public health care, education, social housing,... You see, we actually care about all our citizens - not just the rich.

I applaud you Europeans for this. You are much more socially developed than we. America is still the 'wild west' in many ways. We cherish individualism and self reliance, and expect it from our fellows. That may be a reason for our seeming disdain for the homeless. We expect more from them.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

What?

Did you EVER ask the leaders of any place, online or off line in person,
if they will permit healing ? Try it, be prepared for a shocking lack of faith and absence of belief in God's Way.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

That may be a reason for our seeming disdain for the homeless. We expect more from them.

and kick them while we're/they're down .....
yes , yeah for you .....

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

ow my...............

It seems like you need a serious reality check.
Newsflash: not every homeless person is a drug addict. And not every drug addict is homeless.

Just like not every Mexican immigrant is a drug dealer.

The problem with immigration IS NOT drugs mainly, nor poverty.
It is much, much ,much more devastating than that.

As far as drugs , America has been PUSHING DRUGS since wwi/ wwii/
giving millions of them away FOR FREE then, and since then even more !

 

[AV1611VET]

Did you EVER ask the leaders of any place, online or off line in person,
if they will permit healing ? Try it, be prepared for a shocking lack of faith and absence of belief in God's Way.

If you're talking about faith healing services, those are a joke.

They are nothing more than venues for charlatans to take your money.

They're about as effective as snake handlers.

 

[OldWiseGuy]

Newsflash: not every homeless person is a drug addict. And not every drug addict is homeless.

Subtract those who have inflicted their problems onto themselves for no good reason and the overall problem becomes quite manageable. Unnecessary drug addiction often leads to unnecessary homelessness, as do other unnecessary behaviors.

 

[AV1611VET]

Well I guess it wasn't time for this challenge again.

 

[OldWiseGuy]

The problem with immigration IS NOT drugs mainly, nor poverty.
It is much, much ,much more devastating than that.

As far as drugs , America has been PUSHING DRUGS since wwi/ wwii/
giving millions of them away FOR FREE then, and since then even more !

I was offered pot at a party once. I declined while everyone else stood in a circle and smoked the stuff. My first thought was 'what a bunch of losers'. I'm quite generous with my disdain for behaviors that I don't agree with.

 

[OldWiseGuy]

and kick them while we're/they're down .....
yes , yeah for you .....

Actually they have overwhelmed our ability to care for them.

 

[OldWiseGuy]

Well I guess it wasn't time for this challenge again.

If it's any consolation I will be including Rudolf in my Christmas decorations this year. His nose will 'irradiate' the rear parking lot.

 

[OldWiseGuy]

Well I guess it wasn't time for this challenge again.

Sooo, to paraphrase Mark Twain,

"You could go over this thread with a divining rod and never find the OP."

 

[DogmaHunter]

Subtract those who have inflicted their problems onto themselves for no good reason and the overall problem becomes quite manageable. Unnecessary drug addiction often leads to unnecessary homelessness, as do other unnecessary behaviors.

Another point you seem to be completely oblivious to is that correlation does not imply causation.

Something you are completely and utterly ignoring is the social settings which acts like feeding grounds for homelessness, crime, drug addictions, being poor, etc. And that one isn't necessarily the cause of the other.

A LOT of people are born into this world facing an uphill battle. In many it even concerns battles that they simply can not win.

It really sounds as if you are incapable of stepping outside of your own little comfortable bubble to look at the world from another angle, from another social setting, from another person's point of view.

Let's try it...

Imagine being born into a very poor family living in a ghetto, with an alcoholic unemployed dad and an ex-stripping drug addicted mother.

Now on the other hand, imagine being born as the son of Bill Gates.

Would it surprise you that the one being born in the ghetto is immensly more likely to end up on the streets or in jail, while the one being born as the son of Bill Gates is instead immensly likely to end up at Harvard or similar?

And that's just right out of the gates, not even considering what their life choices are. That's just the probability out of the box.

Go tell that poor boy that "he can get to harvard" and "has the same chances as everybody else". I would be surprised if you would even believe that yourself... In reality, chances are rather big that the boy in the ghetto isn't even capable of having access to a proper high school where he can actually prepare properly to even only be a candidate for a school like harvard.

Yes, I'm using extremes here. I do that for clarity. The situation isn't as black and white as you are pretending it is.

Again, I suggest a little reality check and perhaps also a nice dose of extra empathy as well.

 

[DogmaHunter]

I applaud you Europeans for this. You are much more socially developed than we. America is still the 'wild west' in many ways. We cherish individualism and self reliance, and expect it from our fellows. That may be a reason for our seeming disdain for the homeless. We expect more from them.

And as a christian, how "christian like" do you feel such a mentality is?

 

[OldWiseGuy]

Another point you seem to be completely oblivious to is that correlation does not imply causation.

Something you are completely and utterly ignoring is the social settings which acts like feeding grounds for homelessness, crime, drug addictions, being poor, etc. And that one isn't necessarily the cause of the other.

A LOT of people are born into this world facing an uphill battle. In many it even concerns battles that they simply can not win.

It really sounds as if you are incapable of stepping outside of your own little comfortable bubble to look at the world from another angle, from another social setting, from another person's point of view.

Let's try it...

Imagine being born into a very poor family living in a ghetto, with an alcoholic unemployed dad and an ex-stripping drug addicted mother.

Now on the other hand, imagine being born as the son of Bill Gates.

Would it surprise you that the one being born in the ghetto is immensly more likely to end up on the streets or in jail, while the one being born as the son of Bill Gates is instead immensly likely to end up at Harvard or similar?

And that's just right out of the gates, not even considering what their life choices are. That's just the probability out of the box.

Go tell that poor boy that "he can get to harvard" and "has the same chances as everybody else". I would be surprised if you would even believe that yourself... In reality, chances are rather big that the boy in the ghetto isn't even capable of having access to a proper high school where he can actually prepare properly to even only be a candidate for a school like harvard.

Yes, I'm using extremes here. I do that for clarity. The situation isn't as black and white as you are pretending it is.

Again, I suggest a little reality check and perhaps also a nice dose of extra empathy as well.

Recall that I would review all cases, not just your extremes. Poverty and homelessness are indicators of failed morality, not failed policies, and most of the blame belongs on those who have failed. That is no way means that I don't have compassion on the unfortunate. I just recognize where to place the blame for their situation.

In the case of the inner city kid I blame his parents. However when he or she becomes of age their future is their responsibility.

 

[OldWiseGuy]

And as a christian, how "christian like" do you feel such a mentality is?

Holding people responsible for their behaviors is not unChristlike. Jesus often read the riot act to those who sinned, even his own disciples.

 

[OldWiseGuy]

A LOT of people are born into this world facing an uphill battle. In many it even concerns battles that they simply can not win.

I assume you are referring to third world countries. In America anyone can succeed (if not, try, try again). Many want to succeed while doing everything needed for failure.

How are you going to justify all the future homeless baby boomers that have earned big salaries and yet are not financially prepared for retirement or the health costs facing them as they age further. I envision 'homeless camps' around the nation, with millions of destitute baby boomers. Who is to blame, certainly not them.

 

[tyke]

Poverty and homelessness are indicators of failed morality, not failed policies, and most of the blame belongs on those who have failed.

America - the most un-christian nation on earth where your fellow man's suffering is their fault so they have to sort it out for themselves with no helping hand up at all. It disgusts me.

 

[AV1611VET]

America - the most un-christian nation on earth ...

Are you saying that because you have one of Europe's biggest mosques breathing down your neck, and they consider us the "Great Satan"?

... where your fellow man's suffering is their fault so they have to sort it out for themselves with no helping hand up at all.

Are you confusing Christianity with Hinduism's caste system, which includes the Untouchables?

If not, how did we surpass their countries in being "most un-christian"?

It disgusts me.

Right ... and I'm Genghis Khan.

ETA: Same questions to you too, Jeff, since you rated his post WINNER.

 

[tyke]

how did we surpass their countries in being "most un-christian"?

It's quite simple. You live in a society where it is every man for himself and if some people fall by the wayside then it's their fault. Not a very christian (small c) attitude.

Tell me AV, would you be prepared to pay in addition to your tax burden, a National Insurance payment (which funds he NHS in he UK) and therefore ensures free healthcare for everyone (regardless of ability to pay) - which goes from treating in-grwing toenails to triple organ transplants??

This really is the jewel in the UK crown, as it were, and no government of any stripe would dare mess with it.

 

[AV1611VET]

It's quite simple. You live in a society where it is every man for himself and if some people fall by the wayside then it's their fault.

What do you think my taxes are for?

Okay with you if I use my net income for some creature comforts?

Not a very christian (small c) attitude.

For the record, we (wife & I) tithe gross, not net.

How about you?

Tell me AV, would you be prepared to pay in addition to your tax burden, a National Insurance payment (which funds he NHS in he UK) and therefore ensures free healthcare for everyone (regardless of ability to pay) - which goes from treating in-grwing toenails to triple organ transplants??

No.

This really is the jewel in the UK crown, as it were, and no government of any stripe would dare mess with it.

Tell me, tyke:

1. What is the wait time for your ingrown toenails and triple-organ transplants?
2. How do some of your hospitals fuel their heat in the winter?

And since you guys aren't nearly as money-hungry as we are, what happened here?