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Time and evolution

Discussion in 'Creation & Evolution' started by JohnR7, Feb 25, 2007.

  1. FoeHammer

    FoeHammer Veteran

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    No space = no vacuum.
    Care to try again?

    FoeHammer.
     
  2. Upisoft

    Upisoft CEO of a waterfal

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    Causality used outside of context.
    Say, what makes you think that at the moment when everything started there were cause-effect relations?

    In the beginning there was nothing:
    A) with cause-effect relations present within it.
    B)

    You choose A. I choose B. It looks like your explanation is more complicated. Please prove necessity of A.
     
  3. Sleeker

    Sleeker DON'T PANIC

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    You're not getting the relation. If WWI happened before WWII, the "before" implies that time existed at both points and can be expressed on a timeline. "Before" means that time had to have existed at the moment of the first event. There can be no "before time" because that means that the first event happened when time did not yet exist, contradicting the bolded statement. If you know easy math, read the next sentence. Asking what's "before time" is like asking what x is equal to when: -1=|x|

    This is like your letter analogy. Which letter is before A? Answer in terms of letters only. "Intelligence" is not a letter, and therefore, not an applicable answer.

    So again, which letter comes before A? Answer with letters only.
     
  4. us38

    us38 im in ur mind, disturben ur sanities

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    @, obviously (or at least in ASCII).

    Verwirrung

    -- D
     
  5. FoeHammer

    FoeHammer Veteran

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    WWI and WWII were events within time and therefore subject to time. I believe that God exists, infinite, not an event and not subject to time.

    FoeHammer.
     
  6. Nathan Poe

    Nathan Poe Well-Known Member

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    I believe that Iggy the Magic Elf exists, infinite, not an event and not subject to time.
    Nathan Poe.
     
  7. flatworm

    flatworm Veteran

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    It does not follow from any of the above that there could exist a "before time", or that anything outside of time can be causally related to it.
     
  8. FoeHammer

    FoeHammer Veteran

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    :yawn: God existed, He created the universe, space, matter, energy, time, God was before time. My seven year old grandson can grasp this so why can't you?

    FoeHammer.
     
  9. flatworm

    flatworm Veteran

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    Probably because I've studied logic. The concept of before time is self-contradictory. Outside of time, independently of time, fine- but there's still no way that before time can make sense.

    You have yet to offer any sort of counterargument- and I really can't blame you. Remember what I told you before about how only theorems in formal logic and mathematics can be proven absolutely? This is one of them.

    What I can blame you for is ignoring the fact you have no argument to give and your continued baseless assertions of something on the same level as married bachelors and square circles.
     
  10. Nathan Poe

    Nathan Poe Well-Known Member

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    The Flying Spaghetti Monster existed, It created the universe, space, matter, energy, time, and of course, garlic bread. The FSM was before time, but after the tomato sauce.

    I'm sure a seven year old grandson can "grasp" a lot of these things before his critical thinking skills develop fully. Getting them while they're still young, hmmm?
     
  11. MrGoodBytes

    MrGoodBytes Seeker for life, probably

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    I bet he grasps the Easter Bunny and Santa Claus too, eh?
     
  12. Sleeker

    Sleeker DON'T PANIC

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    Okay, so what letter is before A?

    What does x equal in the following equation:
    -1 = |x|

    What negative number is greater than 0?

    What online website created the internet?

    How can you roll two normal, six-sided dice and get a total of one?

    What color is darker than pure black (total absence of light)?


    If you can give me an answer to any of these questions, then I will believe that something can occur "before time."
     
  13. Skaloop

    Skaloop Agnostic atheist, pro-choice anti-abortion

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    Ooooh! How about, which number is greater than infinity? Does that one work?
     
  14. aerophagicbricolage

    aerophagicbricolage New Member

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  15. MrGoodBytes

    MrGoodBytes Seeker for life, probably

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    That one. Well, not really, but it's really, really large.
     
  16. FoeHammer

    FoeHammer Veteran

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    Perhaps you ought to study the definition of the word before, it is not always in relation to time.

    FoeHammer.
     
  17. flatworm

    flatworm Veteran

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    No, sometimes it relates to space, as in "in front of". Since time and space are aspects of the same thing, of course, this wouldn't make any sense even if time had a front!

    It can also rank importance or preference, such as "age before beauty" or "death before dishonour". That usage doesn't really fit into your context, though. It also isn't connected to causality.
     
  18. FoeHammer

    FoeHammer Veteran

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    How much do you wanna bet?

    FoeHammer.
     
  19. FishFace

    FishFace Senior Veteran

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    Atheist
    Has FoeHammer clarified how you can have something existing before time, yet? Or has he just carried on insisting that he believes it's possible?
     
  20. FoeHammer

    FoeHammer Veteran

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    My position is clear to the theist, the atheist, as ever, is in denial.
    I find it mildly amusing that the atheist/naturalist will claim a lack of evidence of/for a creator as a/the reason for their atheism/naturalism and yet will accept that the universe came into existence from nothing/nowhere without any evidence to support it.

    FoeHammer.
     
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