Thunder Lauriston lecture on "Why Sunday worship cannot be the Mark of the Beast"

[trophy33]

Just as a follow-up, I asked a person who considers themself to be a devout seventh day observer what to do on the North shore of Alaska, where the sun may not set for months at a time.

Their answer was to just pick a seventh day.

I thought that was really odd. It's critical in parts of the world that have a sunset every 24 hours. But where it doesn't, just pick something.

Similarly with Denmark, Iceland...

 

[ozso]

Just as a follow-up, I asked a person who considers themself to be a devout seventh day observer what to do on the North shore of Alaska, where the sun may not set for months at a time.

Their answer was to just pick a seventh day.

I thought that was really odd. It's critical in parts of the world that have a sunset every 24 hours. But where it doesn't, just pick something.

That's a problem when holding to a covenant made with a specific nation.

 

[SabbathBlessings]

These issues affect very few people. But if one wants to they will always find a way to obey, just like if one wants to find reasons not to.

Rabbi Israel Lipschitz, in his commentary Tiferet Yisrael, writes that in polar regions there is a 24-hour day, as evidenced by the fact that the sun rotates in the sky from a high point at noon to a low point near the horizon at midnight. He does not offer a means of measuring the passage of a 24-hour day during the polar winter when the sun is invisible.[10] He advises that a Jewish traveler observe the beginning and end of the Sabbath based on the clock of the location whence he came. It is unclear whether this refers to his residence or his port of embarkation.[11]

A result of this view is that two Jews who leave from different cities will always observe Shabbat on Saturday, but at different times. A Jew who leaves from America will observe the Sabbath according to the clock of his hometown, while a Jew from Europe will use the clock of his European hometown, which begins and ends Sabbath about five hours earlier than in the United States. Thus, there is no uniquely identifiable beginning and end of the day in the polar regions.[12]

In the polar regions, such as in northern Sweden, where the Midnight sun can be as long as two or three months out of a year (in the summer months), or where the sky is dark even at 2 o'clock PM (in the day) for several weeks during the winter, or what is called the Polar night, the author of Sefer Ha-brit (Article 4) asks the question, what shall a Jew do when he goes to either the North Pole or the South Pole where daylight is prolonged for as much as two to three months, and, particularly, when wanting to know at what hour he must begin observing the Sabbath day and religious holidays (days that are usually ushered-in at nightfall), or when he must begin his fast on Yom Kippur? He there concludes with the answer that in those places where the day extends more than 24-hours, he is to divide the day equally into a 12-hour day and a 12-hour night, and thereby act according to this schedule, as if it had been truly night and truly day.[13]



Modern living provides some unique situations where keeping the Sabbath might have some questions. For example, keeping the Sabbath in space and the polar regions of the Earth like Alaska presents unique issues for Sabbath keepers. In the north of the Arctic Circle and south of the Antarctic Circle, a single period of daylight can last for a month or more during the summer, and the night lasts for a similar length of time in the winter.

You might think “well, that doesn’t change a day being a 24-hour period.” However, it might change when the Sabbath starts. The Bible says, “It shall be unto you a sabbath of rest… from even unto even, shall ye celebrate your sabbath” (Leviticus 23:32). This means that the Sabbath should be kept from Friday sunset to Saturday sunset.

Therefore, in the further regions of the earth and in countries where the sun doesn’t go down like the Polar zone, the timing of the Sabbath should be adjusted to the International Date Line. Example: permitting local rest-day adjustment. And believers may determine the Sabbath by the longitude that are further south or further north depending on which Polar zone they are in.

Therefore, for those who live in Alaska, they can follow the time zone of Portland, Oregon. Thus, Sabbath keepers living in those areas can rely on the cycle of day and night in 24-hour periods. These periods are commonplace in most of the world.

God Understands​

The Lord can understand the limitations of those that live in the extreme regions of the earth. And He will take their best efforts to keep His Sabbath holy as adequate and acceptable when covered by the blood of His Son. Jesus Himself said, “The Sabbath was made for man, and not man for the Sabbath” (Mark 2:27).

 

[trophy33]

These issues affect very few people. But if one wants to they will always find a way to obey, just like if one wants to find reasons not to.

Rabbi Israel Lipschitz, in his commentary Tiferet Yisrael, writes that in polar regions there is a 24-hour day, as evidenced by the fact that the sun rotates in the sky from a high point at noon to a low point near the horizon at midnight. He does not offer a means of measuring the passage of a 24-hour day during the polar winter when the sun is invisible.[10] He advises that a Jewish traveler observe the beginning and end of the Sabbath based on the clock of the location whence he came. It is unclear whether this refers to his residence or his port of embarkation.[11]

A result of this view is that two Jews who leave from different cities will always observe Shabbat on Saturday, but at different times. A Jew who leaves from America will observe the Sabbath according to the clock of his hometown, while a Jew from Europe will use the clock of his European hometown, which begins and ends Sabbath about five hours earlier than in the United States. Thus, there is no uniquely identifiable beginning and end of the day in the polar regions.[12]

In the polar regions, such as in northern Sweden, where the Midnight sun can be as long as two or three months out of a year (in the summer months), or where the sky is dark even at 2 o'clock PM (in the day) for several weeks during the winter, or what is called the Polar night, the author of Sefer Ha-brit (Article 4) asks the question, what shall a Jew do when he goes to either the North Pole or the South Pole where daylight is prolonged for as much as two to three months, and, particularly, when wanting to know at what hour he must begin observing the Sabbath day and religious holidays (days that are usually ushered-in at nightfall), or when he must begin his fast on Yom Kippur? He there concludes with the answer that in those places where the day extends more than 24-hours, he is to divide the day equally into a 12-hour day and a 12-hour night, and thereby act according to this schedule, as if it had been truly night and truly day.[13]

His words have no authority for Christianity, so you did not solve the problem. Anybody can invent anything, for example "keep it according to the time in Paris".

Bible gives no instructions regarding the Sabbath for a global population.

 

[SabbathBlessings]

His words have no authority for Christianity, so you did not solve the problem. Anybody can invent anything, for example "keep it according to the time in Paris".

Bible gives no instructions regarding the Sabbath for a global population.

God is the authority, I was showing you an example of how people look for ways to obey God rather than shrugging it off.

Isaiah 56:6 “Also the sons of the foreigner
Who join themselves to the Lord, to serve Him,
And to love the name of the Lord, to be His servant
Everyone who keeps from defiling the Sabbath,

God invites everyone to keep His holy Sabbath and not defile it because its God's holy day and He just wants to spend time with His people on the day He sanctified to do so.

 

[Gary K]

Just as a follow-up, I asked a person who considers themself to be a devout seventh day observer what to do on the North shore of Alaska, where the sun may not set for months at a time.

Their answer was to just pick a seventh day.

I thought that was really odd. It's critical in parts of the world that have a sunset every 24 hours. But where it doesn't, just pick something.

I find that an odd answer too. I find the Sabbath a delight. Why not keep the entire day holy? I see no reason not to.

 

[Gary K]

That's a problem when holding to a covenant made with a specific nation.

It's not holding to a covenant made with a nation. It's a covenant made with God.

 

[ozso]

It's not holding to a covenant made with a nation. It's a covenant made with God.

It's a covenant God made with Israel.

 

[Gary K]

It's a covenant God made with Israel.

Not to me it isn't. I really enjoy spending the Sabbath with God. Setting aside an entire day to spend with Him and think about nothing else is a big time blessing. He did all humanity a real favor by giving us the Sabbath.

 

[Leaf473]

I agree that living close to the poles affects a small number of people.

But if the Sabbath commandment is universal, one would expect God to give universal instructions.

 

[ozso]

I find that an odd answer too. I find the Sabbath a delight. Why not keep the entire day holy? I see no reason not to.

The idea of Christianity is to keep every day holy.

 

[Leaf473]

I find that an odd answer too. I find the Sabbath a delight. Why not keep the entire day holy? I see no reason not to.

I think they were saying to keep the entire seventh day holy. But when would it start close to the poles? Just pick 6 24-hour periods and then rest for 24 hours. I that's what they were saying.

 

[Gary K]

I agree that living close to the poles affects a small number of people.

But if the Sabbath commandment is universal, one would expect God to give universal instructions.

He did. He said to keep it from sundown to sundown just like the days of the creation week. The evening and the morning were the x day. The 4th commandment gives usw general instructiond and Isaiah 58 gives us specific instructions.

 

[Gary K]

The idea of Christianity is to keep every day holy.

No. Not according to the 4th commandment. We are to set it aside by doing no work and to keep it holy. The Bible tells us we are to be holy every day of the week. There's a big difference in keeping a day holy and living holy lives at all times.

 

[ozso]

Not to me it isn't. I really enjoy spending the Sabbath with God. Setting aside an entire day to spend with Him and think about nothing else is a big time blessing. He did all humanity a real favor by giving us the Sabbath.

The way I look at it that should be a daily thing. I don't like the idea of being less holy the rest of the week. Or giving God less time the rest of the week. The Apostles and disciples fellowshipped and worshipped on a daily basis Acts 2:46-47

 

[Leaf473]

He did. He said to keep it from sundown to sundown just like the days of the creation week. The evening and the morning were the x day. The 4th commandment gives usw general instructiond and Isaiah 58 gives us specific instructions.

He didn't say what to do in places where there is no sundown sometimes.

And, something that affects a far greater number of people, if that's an issue...

The seventh day is sunset to sunset in the Holy Land/Jerusalem. Let's take as a given that they haven't lost track of the cycle.

But sunset in Manila, just for example, occurs 5 hours before and 19 hours after sunset in the Holy Land. Which sunset is the right one?

 

[ozso]

No. Not according to the 4th commandment. We are to set it aside by doing no work and to keep it holy. The Bible tells us we are to be holy every day of the week. There's a big difference in keeping a day holy and living holy lives at all times.

How do you keep a day holy?

 

[Gary K]

The way I look at it that should be a daily thing. I don't like the idea of being less holy the rest of the week. Or giving God less time the rest of the week. The Apostles and disciples fellowshipped and worshipped on a daily basis Acts 2:46-47

God is the one for you to take up your beef with about the difference in keeping a day holy and living holy lives..

 

[Gary K]

How do you keep a day holy?

By following God's instructions found in the fourth commandment and in Isaiah 58.

Edit:

And by spending that day in constant communion with Him.

 

[Leaf473]

By following God's instructions found in the fourth commandment and in Isaiah 58.

Edit:

And by spending that day in constant communion with Him.

I thought this was interesting. Those who keep the Sabbath according to Isaiah 58 would expect to be fed with food from the land of Israel. To me, that shows again the regional/national nature of the commandment.

Bible Gateway passage: Isaiah 58:14 - New Century Version

Then you will find joy in the LORD, and I will carry you to the high places above the earth. I will let you eat the crops of the land your ancestor Jacob had.” The LORD has said these things.

www.biblegateway.com