Thunder Lauriston lecture on "Why Sunday worship cannot be the Mark of the Beast"

[SabbathBlessings]

What's supposed to be the context of "Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;"?

From this we know they are ordinances, handwritten that was against us and contrary. So from this context we should know right away it’s not referring to any of the commandments of God or the Sabbath commandment. The Sabbath is a commandment Deut 4:13, not an ordinance, it is holy and blessed hallowed by God Exodus 20:8-11, not contrary or against (spending time with God is not contrary) and the Sabbath commandment was written by the finger of God Exodus 31:18 not handwritten by Moses. So it’s obvious it is not referring to any of the Ten Commandments that is what reveals sin. 1 John 3:4, Romans 7:7 plus we can’t add or subtract from the Commandments Deut 4:2 because the earthy copy was a replica of God’s heavenly Temple. Heb 8:5, Rev 11:19

What is Col 2:14-17 referring to They are ordinances that have to do with sacrifices, food offerings,

Exodus 12:43 And the Lord said to Moses and Aaron, “This is the ordinance of the Passover:
Ezekiel 43:18 And He said to me, “Son of man, thus says the Lord God: ‘These are the ordinances for the altar on the day when it is made, for sacrificing burnt offerings on it, and for sprinkling blood on it.

2. They were handwritten
2 Chronicles 33:8 Neither will I any more remove the foot of Israel from out of the land which I have appointed for your fathers; so that they will take heed to do all that I have commanded them, according to the whole law and the statutes and the ordinances by the hand of Moses.
Deuteronomy 31:24 So it was, when Moses had completed writing the words of this law in a book, when they were finished,

3. They were contrary
Deuteronomy 31:26 “Take this Book of the Law, and put it beside the ark of the covenant of the Lord your God, that it may be there as a witness against you;
The Ten Commandments are inside the Ark of the Covenant.

There is more detail in regards to the food and drink offerings I’ll see if I can find those scriptures again.

There is an old thread that goes into great detail if interested…

https://www.christianforums.com/threads/time-to-unlearn-the-lies-about-god’s-word.8247236/#post-76690737

"But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day:" Matthew 24:20 is speaking of "When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand)" Matthew 24:15.

Here's where the understanding takes place. In the same speech made by Jesus as recorded by Luke it's "And when ye shall see Jerusalem compassed with armies, then know that the desolation thereof is nigh." Luke 21:20.

When was Jerusalem compassed with armies and rendered desolate? When Jerusalem was leveled by Rome within a generation of Jesus saying that. Fleeing in the winter would be a hardship. And fleeing on the Sabbath would be a hardship because everything would be shut down and the gates of the city would be closed. Like you said, context trumps everything,

The point is, Jesus would know what would be nailed to His cross at His death, would you agree? There would be no point in Him saying to His followers and expected them to keep the Sabbath is it was nailed to the cross decades after the cross. Also Matthew 24 is a prophetic book which correlates with Daniel and Revelation and there is a future application to this verse as well. I can give you a detailed bible study on this if interested.

"For as the new heavens and the new earth, which I will make, shall remain before me, saith the Lord, so shall your seed and your name remain. 23 And it shall come to pass, that from one new moon to another, and from one sabbath to another, shall all flesh come to worship before me, saith the Lord." Isaiah 66:22-23 KJV

Did they keep the new moon too? Is the the new moon equivalent to sabbath? Of course it could mean month to month and week to week, which is considerably more contextual.

In scripture New Moons just means a new month. There was no calendar system in scripture so they could tell months from the moons. This does not say new moon festivals. Regardless what Jesus has planned for His people on a special gathering on the New Moon does not take away the fact that every Sabbath, the saints will comes before the Lord to worship Him. Sin is what separated us from worshipping Him in His presence like in the garden Genesis 2:1-3 and once sin and sinners are no more Sabbath worship will be restored in His presence. Right now we should worship Him from one Sabbath to another through His Spirit Isaiah 58:13, Exodus 20:8-11, Lev 23:3 because God’s will for us is not different in heaven than it is on this earth. Matt 6:10

So what did Paul mean in 2 Corinthians 3:1-11?

"1 Do we begin again to commend ourselves? Or do we need, as some others, epistles of commendation to you or letters of commendation from you? 2 You are our epistle written in our hearts, known and read by all men; 3 clearly you are an epistle of Christ, ministered by us, written not with ink but by the Spirit of the living God, not on tablets of stone but on tablets of flesh, that is, of the heart.

4 And we have such trust through Christ toward God. 5 Not that we are sufficient of ourselves to think of anything as being from ourselves, but our sufficiency is from God, 6 who also made us sufficient as ministers of the new covenant, not of the letter but of the [a]Spirit; for the letter kills, but the Spirit gives life.

7 But if the ministry of death, written and engraved on stones, was glorious, so that the children of Israel could not look steadily at the face of Moses because of the glory of his countenance, which glory was passing away, 8 how will the ministry of the Spirit not be more glorious? 9 For if the ministry of condemnation had glory, the ministry of righteousness exceeds much more in glory. 10 For even what was made glorious had no glory in this respect, because of the glory that excels. 11 For if what is passing away was glorious, what remains is much more glorious." 2 Corinthians 3:1-11 NKJV

@HIM already addressed this and stated it more eloquently that I ever could so I will leave it at that.

 

[SabbathBlessings]

Then why so much emphasis on stone tablets?

Because it represents its eternal natural. Paper can be discarded easily, stone can’t.

Psalms 89:34 My covenant I will not break, Nor alter the word that has gone out of My lips.

God took what was written on the tablets of stone and placed them in our hearts and minds Hebrews 8:10, Jer 31:33. They are written in our hearts because we obey through love 1 John 5:3 John 14:15, they are written in our minds because we are to be doers of His Word. James 1:22, Rev 22:14

The commandments are only given to us, because God loves us and knows what is best for us.

 

[ozso]

No it is not as there is not a single Bible translation in which Sabbath is translated as Sabbaths in Exodus 20:12. Plus I have demonstrated from Isaiah that what Paul was referring to was as it has been shown to be by SabbathBlessing.

The passage SabbathBlessings quoted was Ezekiel 20:12.

 

[Gary K]

Since God's laws are written on our hearts, it follows that we can't be deceived about them. I say a big Amen to that.

We can choose to disobey them, sure. That's the constant struggle.

I cannot agree with that. The devil is so far above us in intellect and knowledge of the scriptures as well as in the ability to deceive that he is able to manipulate us almost at will. Remember he deceived one third of the angels in heaven about who God is when they lived in the very presence of God.

 

[SabbathBlessings]

How is what Ordinary Christian quoted from 2Corinthians 3 any different than what you are saying? Yet the clear implication of what you said is that you disagree with him. It's as if you leave no room for the Holy Spirit and think it is your job to convict of sin.



Aren't you attempting to work above your pay grade?

I don’t think we were saying the same thing and sorry you feel that way. We have been having a discussion on this for a while and I am answering his questions the best I can through scripture. Of course its the Holy Spirit’s role to convict, I am not convicting anyone of anything, that is above my pay grade, but we are called to teach each other the commandments Matthew 5:19 and since you indicated you are doing a better job of teaching than I, I will remove myself from this thread and let you take over.

@Ordinary Christian @myst33 please direct any further questions to @Gark k.

God bless all and wish you all well in seeking Truth to His Word.

 

[ozso]

Because it represents its eternal natural. Paper can be discarded easily, stone can’t.

Psalms 89:34 My covenant I will not break, Nor alter the word that has gone out of My lips.

God took what was written on the tablets of stone and placed them in our hearts and minds Hebrews 8:10, Jer 31:33. They are written in our hearts because we obey through love 1 John 5:3 John 14:15, they are written in our minds because we are to be doers of His Word. James 1:22, Rev 22:14

The commandments are only given to us, because God loves us and knows what is best for us.

That's why I brought up 2 Cor 3:7-11 because it says both the paper and the stone have faded away.

 

[SabbathBlessings]

That's why I brought up 2 Cor 3:7-11 because it says both the paper and the stone have faded away.

Perhaps Gary K can answer this for you.

 

[Leaf473]

That is not true for all. For a little leaven leavens the whole.

Do you mean that if God writes something in someone's heart, a little leaven can then erase it? It looks to me like when something is written in your heart, it's there. A little leaven could lead you to ignore it, sure. But you'd still be aware of its presence.

 

[Leaf473]

No it is not as there is not a single Bible translation in which Sabbath is translated as Sabbaths in Exodus 20:12.

You probably mean Ezekiel 20:12.

You may wish to check out this site. My browser counted 23 instances of Sabbaths (plural).

Ezekiel 20:12 - Bible Gateway

www.biblegateway.com

 

[Gary K]

Then why so much emphasis on stone tablets?

To be fair to SB she spends at least as much time on the nc aspect of the Sabbath as she does on the tables of stone.

 

[Gary K]

You probably mean Ezekiel 20:12.

You may wish to check out this site. My browser counted 23 instances of Sabbaths (plural).

Ezekiel 20:12 - Bible Gateway

www.biblegateway.com

No, I mean Exodus 20:12. Ezekiel 20:12 is saying God is the one who sanctifies us.

 

[Leaf473]

I cannot agree with that. The devil is so far above us in intellect and knowledge of the scriptures as well as in the ability to deceive that he is able to manipulate us almost at will. Remember he deceived one third of the angels in heaven about who God is when they lived in the very presence of God.

What is the value, then, of writing things on our hearts?

Bible Gateway passage: Jeremiah 31:34 - New Living Translation

And they will not need to teach their neighbors, nor will they need to teach their relatives, saying, ‘You should know the LORD.’ For everyone, from the least to the greatest, will know me already,” says the LORD. “And I will forgive their wickedness, and I will never again remember their sins.”

www.biblegateway.com

 

[Leaf473]

No, I mean Exodus 20:12. Ezekiel 20:12 is saying God is the one who sanctifies us.

Okay... You were replying to @myst33 who said Ezekiel 20:12.

But you're right, it's not there in Exodus 20:12

Bible Gateway passage: Exodus 20:12 - New Living Translation

“Honor your father and mother. Then you will live a long, full life in the land the LORD your God is giving you.

www.biblegateway.com

I don't think any translation has Sabbath, singular or plural in that verse

 

[ozso]

To be fair to SB she spends at least as much time on the nc aspect of the Sabbath as she does on the tables of stone.

Well it's not just SB. As far as I can tell a lot of it is from an SDA apologetics script. For instance I recently watched sabbath debate with Doug Batchelor, and I was already familiar with a lot the Bible verses he brought up, because they're the same ones that get repeated here so much. It's a cultic sort of thing. I'm not saying SDA is a cult, but rather there are those who can have a cultic following of the same material. Like if I exclusively went with what Herbert W. Armstrong taught and just basically repeated him. Of course I could claim I wasn't doing that, because I was quoting scripture. But of course it would be scripture used by and as interpreted by Armstrong to build his theology. And of course if I thought everything Armstrong presented was through the Holy Spirit, then I could say it's all from the Holy Spirit.

But anyways in this case, with whomever, all of the scripture and commentary boils down to the sabbath commandment written in stone with God's own finger. That's the foundation and cornerstone (no pun intended) of most of what's written around that.

 

[Gary K]

What is the value, then, of writing things on our hearts?

Bible Gateway passage: Jeremiah 31:34 - New Living Translation

And they will not need to teach their neighbors, nor will they need to teach their relatives, saying, ‘You should know the LORD.’ For everyone, from the least to the greatest, will know me already,” says the LORD. “And I will forgive their wickedness, and I will never again remember their sins.”

www.biblegateway.com

When God writes His commandments in our hearts we can then obey Him naturally even though we still have sin built into us and are still tempted. He doesn't make us sinless until we go to heaven and the devil is destroyed in the lake of fire.

 

[Gary K]

Well it's not just SB. As far as I can tell a lot of it is from an SDA apologetics script. For instance I recently watched sabbath debate with Doug Batchelor, and I was already familiar with a lot the Bible verses he brought up, because they're the same ones that get repeated here so much. It's a cultic sort of thing. I'm not saying SDA is a cult, but rather there are those who can have a cultic following of the same material. Like if I exclusively went with what Herbert W. Armstrong taught and just basically repeated him. Of course I could claim I wasn't doing that, because I was quoting scripture. But of course it would be scripture used by and as interpreted by Armstrong to build his theology. And of course if I thought everything Armstrong presented was through the Holy Spirit, then I could say it's all from the Holy Spirit.

But anyways in this case, with whomever, all of the scripture and commentary boils down to the sabbath commandment written in stone with God's own finger. That's the foundation and cornerstone (no pun intended) of most of what's written around that.

I don't disagree with you. We humans seem to be able to build a cult out of almost anything.

I really like Doug Batchelor's sermons. I think you might enjoy his series titled Panorama of Prophecy built on Daniel and Revelation. You can find it on you tube.

 

[Gary K]

Okay... You were replying to @myst33 who said Ezekiel 20:12.

But you're right, it's not there in Exodus 20:12

Bible Gateway passage: Exodus 20:12 - New Living Translation

“Honor your father and mother. Then you will live a long, full life in the land the LORD your God is giving you.

www.biblegateway.com

I don't think any translation has Sabbath, singular or plural in that verse

I have to say you got me there. I couldn't figure out what you were talking about for quite a while.

 

[ozso]

I cannot agree with that. The devil is so far above us in intellect and knowledge of the scriptures as well as in the ability to deceive that he is able to manipulate us almost at will. Remember he deceived one third of the angels in heaven about who God is when they lived in the very presence of God.

Here's the thing. I think it's far more likely that it's small groups that are being deceived, rather than the vast majority of Christendom for 2000 years. The way I look at it, I can trust that Christ told the truth and the gates of hell did not prevail against his church. Or I can believe that some relatively small group is right and 98% of Christ's church is under Satan's control. But then I have to decide which small group of all the small groups claiming to be the right one, is the right one, when they're all saying they're right and everyone else is false. To me it makes more sense to just go with the plain old orthodox Christianity that's been held by most of Christendom for 2000 years, rather than join up with a latter day unorthodox group.

 

[ozso]

I don't disagree with you. We humans seem to be able to build a cult out of almost anything.

I really like Doug Batchelor's sermons. I think you might enjoy his series titled Panorama of Prophecy built on Daniel and Revelation. You can find it on you tube.

Well what I noticed is Doug Batchelor saying the same things and using the same bible verses as I see posted by various SDA members here. Are all the people saying the same things and using the same bible verses repeating him? Or is everyone including him repeating someone else?

 

[Gary K]

Here's the thing. I think it's far more likely that it's small groups that are being deceived, rather than the vast majority of Christendom for 2000 years. The way I look at it, I can trust that Christ told the truth and the gates of hell did not prevail against his church. Or I can believe that some relatively small group is right and 98% of Christ's church is under Satan's control. But then I have to decide which small group of all the small groups claiming to be the right one, is the right one, when they're all saying they're right and everyone else is false. To me it makes more sense to just go with the plain old orthodox Christianity that's been held by most of Christendom for 2000 years, rather than join up with a latter day unorthodox group.

Take a look at the Dark Ages. The RCC was killing people for simply reading the Bible. For more than a thousand years Catholics were the vast majority of Christians, and still are the majority. It really demonstrates the devil's ability to deceive.