Thunder Lauriston lecture on "Why Sunday worship cannot be the Mark of the Beast"

[SabbathBlessings]

The Sabbath is hardly obscure in the New Testament…….and its a commandment of God-His holy day Isa 58:13 so it matters to Him which means it should matter us as we are made in His image to follow Him, not do our own thing.

Or have ye not read in the law, how that on the sabbath days the priests in the temple profane the sabbath, and are blameless?
- Matthew 12:5

For the Son of man is Lord even of the sabbath day.
- Matthew 12:8

And, behold, there was a man which had his hand withered. And they asked him, saying, Is it lawful to heal on the sabbath days? that they might accuse him.
- Matthew 12:10

And he said unto them, What man shall there be among you, that shall have one sheep, and if it fall into a pit on the sabbath day, will he not lay hold on it, and lift it out?
- Matthew 12:11

How much then is a man better than a sheep? Wherefore it is lawful to do well on the sabbath days.
- Matthew 12:12

But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day:
- Matthew 24:20

In the end of the sabbath, as it began to dawn toward the first day of the week, came Mary Magdalene and the other Mary to see the sepulchre.
- Matthew 28:1

And they went into Capernaum; and straightway on the sabbath day he entered into the synagogue, and taught.
- Mark 1:21

And it came to pass, that he went through the corn fields on the sabbath day; and his disciples began, as they went, to pluck the ears of corn.
- Mark 2:23

And the Pharisees said unto him, Behold, why do they on the sabbath day that which is not lawful?
- Mark 2:24

And he said unto them, The sabbath was made for man, and not man for the sabbath:
- Mark 2:27

Therefore the Son of man is Lord also of the sabbath.
- Mark 2:28

And they watched him, whether he would heal him on the sabbath day; that they might accuse him.
- Mark 3:2

And he saith unto them, Is it lawful to do good on the sabbath days, or to do evil? to save life, or to kill? But they held their peace.
- Mark 3:4

And when the sabbath day was come, he began to teach in the synagogue: and many hearing him were astonished, saying, From whence hath this man these things? and what wisdom is this which is given unto him, that even such mighty works are wrought by his hands?
- Mark 6:2

And now when the even was come, because it was the preparation, that is, the day before the sabbath,
- Mark 15:42

And when the sabbath was past, Mary Magdalene, and Mary the mother of James, and Salome, had bought sweet spices, that they might come and anoint him.
- Mark 16:1

And he came to Nazareth, where he had been brought up: and, as his custom was, he went into the synagogue on the sabbath day, and stood up for to read.
- Luke 4:16

And came down to Capernaum, a city of Galilee, and taught them on the sabbath days.
- Luke 4:31

And it came to pass on the second sabbath after the first, that he went through the corn fields; and his disciples plucked the ears of corn, and did eat, rubbing them in their hands.
- Luke 6:1

And certain of the Pharisees said unto them, Why do ye that which is not lawful to do on the sabbath day?
- Luke 6:2

And he said unto them, That the Son of man is Lord also of the sabbath.
- Luke 6:5

And it came to pass also on another sabbath, that he entered into the synagogue and taught: and there was a man whose right hand was withered.
- Luke 6:6

And the scribes and Pharisees watched him, whether he would heal on the sabbath day; that they might find an accusation against him.
- Luke 6:7

Then said Jesus unto them, I will ask you one thing; Is it lawful on the sabbath days to do good, or to do evil? to save life, or to destroy it?
- Luke 6:9

And he was teaching in one of the synagogues on the sabbath.
- Luke 13:10

And the ruler of the synagogue answered with indignation, because that Jesus had healed on the sabbath day, and said unto the people, There are six days in which men ought to work: in them therefore come and be healed, and not on the sabbath day.
- Luke 13:14

The Lord then answered him, and said, Thou hypocrite, doth not each one of you on the sabbath loose his ox or his ass from the stall, and lead him away to watering?
- Luke 13:15

And ought not this woman, being a daughter of Abraham, whom Satan hath bound, lo, these eighteen years, be loosed from this bond on the sabbath day?
- Luke 13:16

And it came to pass, as he went into the house of one of the chief Pharisees to eat bread on the sabbath day, that they watched him.
- Luke 14:1

And Jesus answering spake unto the lawyers and Pharisees, saying, Is it lawful to heal on the sabbath day?
- Luke 14:3

And answered them, saying, Which of you shall have an ass or an ox fallen into a pit, and will not straightway pull him out on the sabbath day?
- Luke 14:5

And that day was the preparation, and the sabbath drew on.
- Luke 23:54

And they returned, and prepared spices and ointments; and rested the sabbath day according to the commandment.
- Luke 23:56

And immediately the man was made whole, and took up his bed, and walked: and on the same day was the sabbath.
- John 5:9

The Jews therefore said unto him that was cured, It is the sabbath day: it is not lawful for thee to carry thy bed.
- John 5:10

And therefore did the Jews persecute Jesus, and sought to slay him, because he had done these things on the sabbath day.
- John 5:16

Therefore the Jews sought the more to kill him, because he not only had broken the sabbath, but said also that God was his Father, making himself equal with God.
- John 5:18

Moses therefore gave unto you circumcision; (not because it is of Moses, but of the fathers and ye on the sabbath day circumcise a man.
- John 7:22

If a man on the sabbath day receive circumcision, that the law of Moses should not be broken; are ye angry at me, because I have made a man every whit whole on the sabbath day?
- John 7:23

And it was the sabbath day when Jesus made the clay, and opened his eyes.
- John 9:14

Therefore said some of the Pharisees, This man is not of God, because he keepeth not the sabbathday. Others said, How can a man that is a sinner do such miracles? And there was a division among them.
- John 9:16

The Jews therefore, because it was the preparation, that the bodies should not remain upon the cross on the sabbath day, (for that sabbath day was an high day,) besought Pilate that their legs might be broken, and that they might be taken away.
- John 19:31

Then returned they unto Jerusalem from the mount called Olivet, which is from Jerusalem a sabbathday's journey.
- Acts 1:12

But when they departed from Perga, they came to Antioch in Pisidia, and went into the synagogue on the sabbath day, and sat down.
- Acts 13:14

For they that dwell at Jerusalem, and their rulers, because they knew him not, nor yet the voices of the prophets which are read every sabbath day, they have fulfilled them in condemning him.
- Acts 13:27

And when the Jews were gone out of the synagogue, the Gentiles besought that these words might be preached to them the next sabbath.
- Acts 13:42

And the next sabbath day came almost the whole city together to hear the word of God.
- Acts 13:44

For Moses of old time hath in every city them that preach him, being read in the synagogues every sabbath day.
- Acts 15:21

And on the sabbath we went out of the city by a river side, where prayer was wont to be made; and we sat down, and spake unto the women which resorted thither.
- Acts 16:13

And Paul, as his manner was, went in unto them, and three sabbath days reasoned with them out of the scriptures,
- Acts 17:2

And he reasoned in the synagogue every sabbath, and persuaded the Jews and the Greeks.
- Acts 18:4

 

[ozso]

Hardly obscure…….and its a commandment of God-His holy day Isa 58:13 so it matters to Him which means it should matter us.

Or have ye not read in the law, how that on the sabbath days the priests in the temple profane the sabbath, and are blameless?
- Matthew 12:5

For the Son of man is Lord even of the sabbath day.
- Matthew 12:8

And, behold, there was a man which had his hand withered. And they asked him, saying, Is it lawful to heal on the sabbath days? that they might accuse him.
- Matthew 12:10

And he said unto them, What man shall there be among you, that shall have one sheep, and if it fall into a pit on the sabbath day, will he not lay hold on it, and lift it out?
- Matthew 12:11

How much then is a man better than a sheep? Wherefore it is lawful to do well on the sabbath days.
- Matthew 12:12

But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day:
- Matthew 24:20

In the end of the sabbath, as it began to dawn toward the first day of the week, came Mary Magdalene and the other Mary to see the sepulchre.
- Matthew 28:1

And they went into Capernaum; and straightway on the sabbath day he entered into the synagogue, and taught.
- Mark 1:21

And it came to pass, that he went through the corn fields on the sabbath day; and his disciples began, as they went, to pluck the ears of corn.
- Mark 2:23

And the Pharisees said unto him, Behold, why do they on the sabbath day that which is not lawful?
- Mark 2:24

And he said unto them, The sabbath was made for man, and not man for the sabbath:
- Mark 2:27

Therefore the Son of man is Lord also of the sabbath.
- Mark 2:28

And they watched him, whether he would heal him on the sabbath day; that they might accuse him.
- Mark 3:2

And he saith unto them, Is it lawful to do good on the sabbath days, or to do evil? to save life, or to kill? But they held their peace.
- Mark 3:4

And when the sabbath day was come, he began to teach in the synagogue: and many hearing him were astonished, saying, From whence hath this man these things? and what wisdom is this which is given unto him, that even such mighty works are wrought by his hands?
- Mark 6:2

And now when the even was come, because it was the preparation, that is, the day before the sabbath,
- Mark 15:42

And when the sabbath was past, Mary Magdalene, and Mary the mother of James, and Salome, had bought sweet spices, that they might come and anoint him.
- Mark 16:1

And he came to Nazareth, where he had been brought up: and, as his custom was, he went into the synagogue on the sabbath day, and stood up for to read.
- Luke 4:16

And came down to Capernaum, a city of Galilee, and taught them on the sabbath days.
- Luke 4:31

And it came to pass on the second sabbath after the first, that he went through the corn fields; and his disciples plucked the ears of corn, and did eat, rubbing them in their hands.
- Luke 6:1

And certain of the Pharisees said unto them, Why do ye that which is not lawful to do on the sabbath day?
- Luke 6:2

And he said unto them, That the Son of man is Lord also of the sabbath.
- Luke 6:5

And it came to pass also on another sabbath, that he entered into the synagogue and taught: and there was a man whose right hand was withered.
- Luke 6:6

And the scribes and Pharisees watched him, whether he would heal on the sabbath day; that they might find an accusation against him.
- Luke 6:7

Then said Jesus unto them, I will ask you one thing; Is it lawful on the sabbath days to do good, or to do evil? to save life, or to destroy it?
- Luke 6:9

And he was teaching in one of the synagogues on the sabbath.
- Luke 13:10

And the ruler of the synagogue answered with indignation, because that Jesus had healed on the sabbath day, and said unto the people, There are six days in which men ought to work: in them therefore come and be healed, and not on the sabbath day.
- Luke 13:14

The Lord then answered him, and said, Thou hypocrite, doth not each one of you on the sabbath loose his ox or his ass from the stall, and lead him away to watering?
- Luke 13:15

And ought not this woman, being a daughter of Abraham, whom Satan hath bound, lo, these eighteen years, be loosed from this bond on the sabbath day?
- Luke 13:16

And it came to pass, as he went into the house of one of the chief Pharisees to eat bread on the sabbath day, that they watched him.
- Luke 14:1

And Jesus answering spake unto the lawyers and Pharisees, saying, Is it lawful to heal on the sabbath day?
- Luke 14:3

And answered them, saying, Which of you shall have an ass or an ox fallen into a pit, and will not straightway pull him out on the sabbath day?
- Luke 14:5

And that day was the preparation, and the sabbath drew on.
- Luke 23:54

And they returned, and prepared spices and ointments; and rested the sabbath day according to the commandment.
- Luke 23:56

And immediately the man was made whole, and took up his bed, and walked: and on the same day was the sabbath.
- John 5:9

The Jews therefore said unto him that was cured, It is the sabbath day: it is not lawful for thee to carry thy bed.
- John 5:10

And therefore did the Jews persecute Jesus, and sought to slay him, because he had done these things on the sabbath day.
- John 5:16

Therefore the Jews sought the more to kill him, because he not only had broken the sabbath, but said also that God was his Father, making himself equal with God.
- John 5:18

Moses therefore gave unto you circumcision; (not because it is of Moses, but of the fathers and ye on the sabbath day circumcise a man.
- John 7:22

If a man on the sabbath day receive circumcision, that the law of Moses should not be broken; are ye angry at me, because I have made a man every whit whole on the sabbath day?
- John 7:23

And it was the sabbath day when Jesus made the clay, and opened his eyes.
- John 9:14

Therefore said some of the Pharisees, This man is not of God, because he keepeth not the sabbathday. Others said, How can a man that is a sinner do such miracles? And there was a division among them.
- John 9:16

The Jews therefore, because it was the preparation, that the bodies should not remain upon the cross on the sabbath day, (for that sabbath day was an high day,) besought Pilate that their legs might be broken, and that they might be taken away.
- John 19:31

Then returned they unto Jerusalem from the mount called Olivet, which is from Jerusalem a sabbathday's journey.
- Acts 1:12

But when they departed from Perga, they came to Antioch in Pisidia, and went into the synagogue on the sabbath day, and sat down.
- Acts 13:14

For they that dwell at Jerusalem, and their rulers, because they knew him not, nor yet the voices of the prophets which are read every sabbath day, they have fulfilled them in condemning him.
- Acts 13:27

And when the Jews were gone out of the synagogue, the Gentiles besought that these words might be preached to them the next sabbath.
- Acts 13:42

And the next sabbath day came almost the whole city together to hear the word of God.
- Acts 13:44

For Moses of old time hath in every city them that preach him, being read in the synagogues every sabbath day.
- Acts 15:21

And on the sabbath we went out of the city by a river side, where prayer was wont to be made; and we sat down, and spake unto the women which resorted thither.
- Acts 16:13

And Paul, as his manner was, went in unto them, and three sabbath days reasoned with them out of the scriptures,
- Acts 17:2

And he reasoned in the synagogue every sabbath, and persuaded the Jews and the Greeks.
- Acts 18:4

Okay so you pulled up an online bible and did a word search for "sabbath" and posted all the times it occurs in the NT. I've done the same myself. Although you left out Colossians 2:16 and Hebrews 4:9. I guess whatever translation you're using doesn't contain the word "sabbath" in it for Hebrews 4:9. Like the KJV which has: "There remaineth therefore a rest to the people of God."

What isn't in all of those verses is anything about Christians keeping the seventh day sabbath, or any commandment to do so, or even a repeat of the OT commandment.

 

[SabbathBlessings]

Okay so you pulled up an online bible and did a word search for "sabbath" and posted all the times it occurs in the NT. I've done the same myself. Although you left out Colossians 2:16 and Hebrews 4:9. I guess whatever translation you're using doesn't contain the word "sabbath" in it for Hebrews 4:9. Like the KJV which has: "There remaineth therefore a rest to the people of God."

What isn't in all of those verses is anything about Christians keeping the seventh day sabbath, or any commandment to do so, or even a repeat of the OT commandment.

Guess you missed one after the cross…

And they returned, and prepared spices and ointments; and rested the sabbath day according to the commandment.
- Luke 23:56

If the Sabbath commandment was going to end at the Cross Jesus would have said something to someone especially His faithful followers. Once God blesses something, man cannot reverse, Num 23:20 so one would need a thus saith the Lord to reverse God's blessed Sabbath commandment that God personally wrote and spoke and is in His Most Holy of His Temple. Rev 11:19

There’s lots of scripture one can ignore but it doesn’t make it go away. The claim was the Sabbath was obscure in the NT and evidence shows not the case. Jesus was crucified over falsely breaking the Sabbath commandment and the Pharisees not believing God being the Father of Jesus, both accusations were false and Jesus died sinless and became our sacrificial Lamb for the forgiveness of sins when we have a change in heart from breaking God's law (1 John 3:4, Romans 7:7). If the Sabbath commandment ended as people claim, there would have been an uproar in scripture, not silence and not His faithful followers keeping every Sabbath decades after the Cross, just as Jesus expected them to. What ended was the yearly sabbath(s) ordinances (annual feast days) animal sacrifices as they all pointed to Jesus Col 2:14-17 kjv, Hebrews 10:1-10 what did not end is sin, which is breaking God's law and what Jesus came to save us from, not in Matthew 1:21.

Hebrews 4:9 NIV There remains, then, a Sabbath-rest for the people of God;

The rest here literally translates into Sabbath-keeping.

sabbatismos: a sabbath rest
Original Word: σαββατισμός, οῦ, ὁ
Part of Speech: Noun, Masculine
Transliteration: sabbatismos
Phonetic Spelling: (sab-bat-is-mos')
Definition: a sabbath rest
Usage: a keeping of the Sabbath, a Sabbath rest.

Which we are to cease from our works as God did from His.
Hebrews 4:10 For he who has entered His rest has himself also ceased from his works as God did from His.

When did God cease from His works?

Hebrews 4:4. For He has spoken in a certain place of the seventh day in this way: “And God rested on the seventh day from all His works” A direct reference to the Sabbath commandment Exodus 20:8-11 which we are told remains for God's people.

God made man in His image to follow Him and doing our own thing instead, is what separated man from God. How is man reconciled? Blessed are those who do His commandments, that they may have the right to the tree of life, and may enter through the gates into the city. Rev 22:14

 

[ozso]

Guess you missed one after the cross…

And they returned, and prepared spices and ointments; and rested the sabbath day according to the commandment.
- Luke 23:56

A very short time after the cross...

There’s lots of scripture one can ignore but it doesn’t make it go away. The claim was the Sabbath was obscure in the NT and eveidence shows not the case. Jesus was crucified over falsely breaking the Sabbath commandment, which He didn’t instead kept it His entire life nad is our example to follow 1 John 2:6. If the Sabbath commandment ended as people claim, there would have been an uproar in scripture, not silence.

I think you misunderstood. The word "sabbath" isn't obscure in the NT. What's obscure are verses saying anything about Christians keeping the seventh day sabbath in Christian churches, or any mention to do so in the epistles, or even a repeat of the OT sabbath commandment to the Christians in the epistles.

Hebrews 4:9 NIV There remains, then, a Sabbath-rest for the people of God;

The rest here literally translates into Sabbath-keeping

sabbatismos: a sabbath rest
Original Word: σαββατισμός, οῦ, ὁ
Part of Speech: Noun, Masculine
Transliteration: sabbatismos
Phonetic Spelling: (sab-bat-is-mos')
Definition: a sabbath rest
Usage: a keeping of the Sabbath, a Sabbath rest.

I thought according to you that means sabbaths as in annual sabbaths. #525

 

[SabbathBlessings]

A very short time after the cross...

At the cross- it is finished. The New Covenant was ratified at the Cross at the death of Jesus. Jesus was teaching everything that was meant to be kept before the cross, If there was instruction by Jesus that we no longer need to keep the Sabbath commandment He said was made for man, He told no one, none of His faithful followers because the Sabbath commandment never ended, which is why His followers faithful kept every Sabbath. It continues on forever for God's people. Isaiah 66:22-23

I think you misunderstood. The word "sabbath" isn't obscure in the NT. What's obscure are verses saying anything about Christians keeping the seventh day sabbath in Christian churches, or any mention to do so in the epistles, or even a repeat of the OT sabbath commandment to the Christians in the epistles.

I thought according to you that means sabbaths as in annual sabbaths. #525

The annual sabbath(s) are ordinances....it uses the same word but it means something different when applied in the plural in this context. The sabbath(s) it is referring to the annual feast days. How do we know that, because the context shows in Col 2:14 KJV it is referring to ordinances, handwritten and contrary and against, which is not the same the Sabbath commandment, which was finger written by God and is holy and blessed and doesn't fit the rest of scripture showing it did not end. And if you look at Col 2:17 its almost a direct quote to Hebrews 10:1-10 and shows what ended because Jesus is our sacrificial Lamb and we no longer need the blood of animals to forgive sin we can go directly to Jesus. Sin is still defined as breaking God's law 1 John 3:4 Romans 7:7 which Jesus came to save us from not in Matthew 1:21.

Exodus 12:43 And the Lord said to Moses and Aaron, “This is the ordinance of the Passover:
Ezekiel 43:18 And He said to me, “Son of man, thus says the Lord God: ‘These are the ordinances for the altar on the day when it is made, for sacrificing burnt offerings on it, and for sprinkling blood on it.

The weekly Sabbath is a commandment from God. Exodus 20:6, Deut 4:13 His works Exodus 32:16 God shouldn't have to repeat Himself for us to obey. God writes His laws in the hearts and minds of His people Hebrews 8:10 and the Sabbath commandment it to remember it and keep it holy which we see His faithful followers doing and Jesus who is our example to follow and it remains for the people of God Hebrews 4:9 NIV.

There is no scripture stating that one of God's commandment ended ever. This is a false teaching leading people down the wrong path. But God gives us free will to test any path we want. Every time you see the instruction to keep the commandments of God, this includes God's Sabbath commandment.

 

[ozso]

The annual sabbath(s) are ordinances....it uses the same word but it means something different when applied in the plural in this context. The sabbath(s) it is referring to the annual feast days. How do we know that, because the context shows in Col 2:14 kjv it is referring to ordinances, handwritten and contrary and against, which is not the same the Sabbath commandment, which was finger written by God and is holy and blessed and doesn't fit the rest of scripture showing it did not end. And if you look at Col 2:17 its almost a direct quote to Hebrews 10:1-10 and shows what ended because Jesus is our sacrificial Lamb and we no longer need the blood of animals to forgive sin we can go directly to Jesus. Sin is still defined as breaking God's law 1 John 3:4 Romans 7:7 which Jesus came to save us from not in Matthew 1:21.

Exodus 12:43 And the Lord said to Moses and Aaron, “This is the ordinance of the Passover:
Ezekiel 43:18 And He said to me, “Son of man, thus says the Lord God: ‘These are the ordinances for the altar on the day when it is made, for sacrificing burnt offerings on it, and for sprinkling blood on it.

The weekly Sabbath is a commandment from God. Exodus 20:6, Deut 4:13

There is no scripture stating that one of God's commandment ended ever. This is a false teaching leading people down the wrong path. But God gives us free will to test any path we want.

Then why is there so much emphasis on keeping the dietary laws in Leviticus 11:1-23?

 

[SabbathBlessings]

Then why is there so much emphasis on keeping the dietary laws in Leviticus 11:1-23?

Because our bodies never changed and our bodies are a temple and dwelling place for the Holy Spirit, so we need to keep them clean for health reason and clean from sin, which is why God writes His laws in our hearts and minds, we are a temple to the Lord thy God, what is in His Temple Revelation 11:19. Scripture shows unclean foods remain unclean Acts 10:14, Rev 18:2, Isaiah 66:17

 

[ozso]

Because our bodies never changed and our bodies are a temple and dwelling place for the Holy Spirit, so we need to keep them clean for health reason and clean from sin, which is why God writes His laws in our hearts and minds, we are a temple to the Lord thy God, what is in His Temple Revelation 11:19. Scripture shows unclean foods remain unclean Acts 10:14, Rev 18:2, Isaiah 66:17

Why isn't there anything in the NT reinforcing that? The verses you're using don't do that. A lot of times like in this instance you post verses that are only loosely related at best, but don't really back up your statement.

 

[SabbathBlessings]

Why isn't there anything in the NT reinforcing that? The verses you're using don't do that. A lot of times like in this instance you post verses that are only loosely related at best, but don't really back up your statement.

Peter is the NT Acts 10:14 long after the cross -foods still unclean. same w Rev 18:2 Isaiah 66:17 is a prophecy on Judgement- seems like it should be the final word on the debate of clean vs unclean. Adam and Eve lost dominion of the earth by eating the forbidden fruit, I think God is particular but loves us enough to give us plenty of warnings. We have an abundance of clean foods to eat, God is good and knows what’s best for us.

 

[ozso]

Peter is the NT Acts 10:14 long after the cross -foods still unclean. same w Rev 18:2 Isaiah 66:17 is a prophecy on Judgement- seems like it should be the final word on the debate of clean vs unclean. Adam and Eve lost dominion of the earth by eating the forbidden fruit, I think God is particular but loves us enough to give us plenty of warnings. We have an abundance of clean foods to eat, God is good and knows what’s best for us.

Peter was a Jew so culturally to him eating something like pork, would probably be like eating a cat to Americans. There is no instruction whatsoever to Gentiles about keeping the diet restrictions except for Acts 21:25. And when Peter was in the home of the Gentiles he probably ate whatever was put before him 1 Cor 10:27. The gentiles were not under the old covenant commandments. That's why there was strife regarding the Judaizers. Which is why Paul told them not to let anyone judge them regarding food and the sabbath Col 2:16.

This is why eating restrictions and sabbath keeping was never a thing in the Christian church from the beginning. It's not something that was changed by an emperor or pope in the 4th century. According to very solid church history it was never practised.

 

[Gary K]

We're on the same page regarding that. Being that the argument in this thread is Christians who don't practice the ceremonial law of the seventh day sabbath, bear the mark of the beast and aren't going to heaven. What's your view on that?

We don't believe anyone up until some future point in history will have the mark of the beast. God, because He is justice, will so arrange circumstances so that everyone will have a chance to fully understand the issue and only at that point, and a Sunday law will be passed requiring everyone to worship on Sunday, will it to become the mark of the beast.

Revelation tells us what this mark is and what the seal of God is.

Rev 9:4 And it was commanded them that they should not hurt the grass of the earth, neither any green thing, neither any tree; but only those men which have not the seal of God in their foreheads.

Rev 14:9 And the third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice, If any man worship the beast and his image, and receive his mark in his forehead, or in his hand,

Both of these "marks" are symbolic. The forehead is symbolic as the seat of conscience as the frontal lobe of the brain is where the conscience is located. So, both marks have to do with what we believe and are fully determined to do. The hand is symbolic of what we do as we work with our hands.

 

[ozso]

We don't believe anyone up until some future point in history will have the mark of the beast. God, because He is justice, will so arrange circumstances so that everyone will have a chance to fully understand the issue and only at that point, and a Sunday law will be passed requiring everyone to worship on Sunday, will it to become the mark of the beast.

Revelation tells us what this mark is and what the seal of God is.

Both of these "marks" are symbolic. The forehead is symbolic as the seat of conscience as the frontal lobe of the brain is where the conscience is located. So, both marks have to do with what we believe and are fully determined to do. The hand is symbolic of what we do as we work with our hands.

Mark of the beast aside. The clear message I've gotten from some SDA here is that Christians who don't practice the ceremonial law of the seventh day sabbath, are not getting into heaven. Now for all I know I'm hearing that from hyper-adventists so to speak. So what's your view on that?

 

[Gary K]

Mark of the beast aside. The clear message I've gotten from some SDA here is that Christians who don't practice the ceremonial law of the seventh day sabbath, are not getting into heaven. Now for all I know I'm hearing that from hyper-adventists so to speak. So what's your view on that?

As simply as possible. They are wrong as that is taught neither by the Bible or Ellen White.

 

[Gary K]

As we are not disobeying God by not living according to His instructions to Adam or Noah, so also we are not disobeying God by not living according to His instructions to Moses and Israel.

We must realize that not everything in the Bible is written to us.

I disagree. Paul tells us that all these things were written as examples for us. Not much difference between for us and to us.

1Co 10:7 Neither be ye idolaters, as were some of them; as it is written, The people sat down to eat and drink, and rose up to play.
1Co 10:8 Neither let us commit fornication, as some of them committed, and fell in one day three and twenty thousand.
1Co 10:9 Neither let us tempt Christ, as some of them also tempted, and were destroyed of serpents.
1Co 10:10 Neither murmur ye, as some of them also murmured, and were destroyed of the destroyer.
1Co 10:11 Now all these things happened unto them for ensamples: and they are written for our admonition, upon whom the ends of the world are come.

 

[trophy33]

I disagree. Paul tells us that all these things were written as examples for us. Not much difference between for us and to us.

The text does not mean that the instructions given to Israel/Moses are given to us, too.

Examples of bad behavior and of disobedience, sure, you can use it for that.

As you can use the examples of Adam, Noah or Abraham, even though the specific instructions for them are not for us.

 

[Gary K]

The text does not mean that the instructions given to Israel/Moses are given to us, too.

Examples of bad behavior and of disobedience, sure, you can use it for that.

As you can use the examples of Adam, Noah or Abraham, even though the specific instructions for them are not for us.

That idea is a direct contradiction of what Paul says. He is speaking to Gentiles in the church at Corinth.

Co 10:9 Neither let us tempt Christ, as some of them also tempted, and were destroyed of serpents.
1Co 10:10 Neither murmur ye, as some of them also murmured, and were destroyed of the destroyer.
1Co 10:11 Now all these things happened unto them for ensamples: and they are written for our admonition, upon whom the ends of the world are come.
1Co 10:12 Wherefore let him that thinketh he standeth take heed lest he fall.

 

[Leaf473]

Nor what you refer too as the two greatest commandments. Jesus said that the law is the golden rule. Matthew 7:12

Sorry, I'm not following you. The idea had been presented that the Ten Commandments were God written, and everything else was an ordinance written by Moses. Do we keep some of those ordinances written by Moses?

If you say SDAs require vegetarianism to be an SDA you're wrong. There are SDAs who eat meat and they are still members in good standing. You will live longer and be healthier if you are and that has been proven in multiple studies. One study showed an 11 year longer average lifespan because of the SDA diet that is no neat and low in sugar but that's up to the individual.

No, I'm not saying that. Are the instructions about clean and unclean part of the law of Moses that we are to keep today?

Bible Gateway passage: Leviticus 11:44-45 - New Living Translation

For I am the LORD your God. You must consecrate yourselves and be holy, because I am holy. So do not defile yourselves with any of these small animals that scurry along the ground. For I, the LORD, am the one who brought you up from the land of Egypt, that I might be your God. Therefore, you...

www.biblegateway.com

 

[Leaf473]

Waste of time if you don’t see.

Well, we definitely see that differently I don't think talking about the law is ever a waste of time.

Bible Gateway passage: Deuteronomy 11:19 - New Living Translation

Teach them to your children. Talk about them when you are at home and when you are on the road, when you are going to bed and when you are getting up.

www.biblegateway.com

Simple Romans 10:6-8 paraphrases Deut 30:10-14. Which is saying the same thing but in different words as Jeremiah 31 and Hebrew 8. If you can’t see that you won’t see anything else. Take care.

The demonstration I was talking about was to take an instruction and say if it is a commandment, statute, judgment, ordinance.

Here's the instruction I suggested for your demonstration, if you wish. Even if I don't see it, someone else reading this in the future might

Bible Gateway passage: Deuteronomy 15:1 - New American Standard Bible

The Sabbatical Year - “At the end of every seven years you shall grant a release of debts.

www.biblegateway.com

 

[SabbathBlessings]

Peter was a Jew so culturally to him eating something like pork, would probably be like eating a cat to Americans. There is no instruction whatsoever to Gentiles about keeping the diet restrictions except for Acts 21:25. And when Peter was in the home of the Gentiles he probably ate whatever was put before him 1 Cor 10:27. The gentiles were not under the old covenant commandments. That's why there was strife regarding the Judaizers. Which is why Paul told them not to let anyone judge them regarding food and the sabbath Col 2:16.

This is why eating restrictions and sabbath keeping was never a thing in the Christian church from the beginning. It's not something that was changed by an emperor or pope in the 4th century. According to very solid church history it was never practised.

According to scripture there is no Jew or Gentile if in Christ, just God's people grafted in through faith. Gal 3:26-28, Noah was given the clean and unclean foods and he is not Jewish. Are bodies for Jews different than bodies of Gentiles, no, which is why no distinction was made in any of those scripture about unclean foods only for the Jews.

Col 2:14-16 KJV is not about the weekly Sabbath commandment as shown, and I think we should be careful making a doctrine out of one verse, especially when dealing with a commandments of God and one out of context and does not reconcile with the rest of God’s Word. Spending time with God on the day He set aside to be His holy, sanctified and blessed day is nothing but the delight as promised and never a burden 1 John 5:3 sadly many people miss out on the blessing God is trying to give us by spending time with us for a full day on His holy day. Isaiah 58:13-14

 

[SabbathBlessings]

Mark of the beast aside. The clear message I've gotten from some SDA here is that Christians who don't practice the ceremonial law of the seventh day sabbath, are not getting into heaven. Now for all I know I'm hearing that from hyper-adventists so to speak. So what's your view on that?

We are only judged based on our knowledge. Once we know the Truth and go away from it that when it gets dangerous. Hebrews 10:26-30 There will be Judgement Day, not everyone who says Lord Lord will be going to heaven. Matthew 7:21-23 Jesus gives us His Word to be a light to our path Psalms 119:105, the path is narrow according to Jesus. Matthew 7:13-14 It's not the will of God that anyone be lost, but God allows us to make our decisions. He does not let go of us, we let go of Him, by putting self first over God. The root to all sin is selfishness, our will over God's. God gives us plenty of warnings and we should have faith and trust the warnings are for us to help make better decisions, but God does not make our decisions for us, He allows us each to do that. If we want to submit to Him, He will help us obey His commandments, John 14:15-18 He doesn't make us do it by ourselves, but it requires our cooperation. There will be Sabbath-keepers who probably won’t make it to heaven if not following God in other areas, Sabbath-keeping is not the determining factor, just like there will probably be many Sunday keepers in heaven who may not have known the Sabbath Truth, we are saved by the blood of Jesus through faith and if we have faith in Him we will do what He asks of us though love and faith. 1 John 5:3
Romans 3:31 Revelation 14:12

Also the Sabbath commandment is not a ceremonial law, it is part of God's eternal Ten Commandments Deut 4:13 Exodus 32:16 Matt 5:19 Rev 11:19 Isaiah 66:23 and all God's commandments are righteous Psalms 119:172 which means they are all the morally right thing for His children to do and obey if we believe and trust in God.