Thunder Lauriston lecture on "Why Sunday worship cannot be the Mark of the Beast"

[Leaf473]

There is no Jew or gentile in Christ, but there are cultural Jews and gentiles, people who grew up Jewish... or didn't.

Some of the culturally Jewish Christians still kept the entire law of Moses.

Bible Gateway passage: Acts 21:20 - New King James Version

And when they heard it, they glorified the Lord. And they said to him, “You see, brother, how many myriads of Jews there are who have believed, and they are all zealous for the law;

www.biblegateway.com

People like Peter were sometimes caught in the middle.

Bible Gateway passage: Galatians 2:12 - New King James Version

for before certain men came from James, he would eat with the Gentiles; but when they came, he withdrew and separated himself, fearing those who were of the circumcision.

www.biblegateway.com

Jesus didn't reveal all the truths of the New Covenant all at once.

 

[Gary K]

Sorry, I'm not following you. The idea had been presented that the Ten Commandments were God written, and everything else was an ordinance written by Moses. Do we keep some of those ordinances written by Moses?


No, I'm not saying that. Are the instructions about clean and unclean part of the law of Moses that we are to keep today?

Bible Gateway passage: Leviticus 11:44-45 - New Living Translation

For I am the LORD your God. You must consecrate yourselves and be holy, because I am holy. So do not defile yourselves with any of these small animals that scurry along the ground. For I, the LORD, am the one who brought you up from the land of Egypt, that I might be your God. Therefore, you...

www.biblegateway.com

SDA'a choose to keep them for health reason not because we think we have to follow the Mosaic law. I was a Refrigeration tech for years and at one of the places I worked we had a client that was a pork processing plant. They were regulated much more than any other type of meat processing plant. If their drive in freezer got above -20 degrees Farenheit for more than 30 minutes they had to throw away all their pork because it is so diseased. Any scavenger is like that because they eat rotten food on a regular basis. So God's dietary restrictions on the Hebrews is based on common sense. We are what we eat. This one of the reasons SDAs have a much lower cancer rate than all meat eaters.

 

[Gary K]

There is no Jew or gentile in Christ, but there are cultural Jews and gentiles, people who grew up Jewish... or didn't.

Some of the culturally Jewish Christians still kept the entire law of Moses.

Bible Gateway passage: Acts 21:20 - New King James Version

And when they heard it, they glorified the Lord. And they said to him, “You see, brother, how many myriads of Jews there are who have believed, and they are all zealous for the law;

www.biblegateway.com

People like Peter were sometimes caught in the middle.

Bible Gateway passage: Galatians 2:12 - New King James Version

for before certain men came from James, he would eat with the Gentiles; but when they came, he withdrew and separated himself, fearing those who were of the circumcision.

www.biblegateway.com

Jesus didn't reveal all the truths of the New Covenant all at once.

That is why SDAs say truth is progressive. Where we really differ with the vast majority of Protestants is that we believe God never contradicts Himself. What comes later always builds on what comes before it, It never contradicts earlier revelations.

 

[Gary K]

Sorry, I'm not following you. The idea had been presented that the Ten Commandments were God written, and everything else was an ordinance written by Moses. Do we keep some of those ordinances written by Moses?


No, I'm not saying that. Are the instructions about clean and unclean part of the law of Moses that we are to keep today?

Bible Gateway passage: Leviticus 11:44-45 - New Living Translation

For I am the LORD your God. You must consecrate yourselves and be holy, because I am holy. So do not defile yourselves with any of these small animals that scurry along the ground. For I, the LORD, am the one who brought you up from the land of Egypt, that I might be your God. Therefore, you...

www.biblegateway.com

That is not an idea. That is scripture but God also gave Moses the ceremonial laws but they went out of effect at the death of Jesus on the cross as they were prophetic laws that looked forward to the Messiah. Once Jesus came and died for our sins they naturally went away as the reality had come..

Why would you want to observe a law that which no longer had any meaning?

 

[ozso]

We are only judged based on our knowledge. Once we know the Truth and go away from it that when it gets dangerous. Hebrews 10:26-30 There will be Judgement Day, not everyone who says Lord Lord will be going to heaven. Matthew 7:21-23 Jesus gives us His Word to be a light to our path Psalms 119:105, the path is narrow according to Jesus. Matthew 7:13-14 It's not the will of God that anyone be lost, but God allows us to make our decisions. He does not let go of us, we let go of Him, by putting self first over God. The root to all sin is selfishness, our will over God's. God gives us plenty of warnings and we should have faith and trust the warnings are for us to help make better decisions, but God does not make our decisions for us, He allows us each to do that. If we want to submit to Him, He will help us obey His commandments, John 14:15-18 He doesn't make us do it by ourselves, but it requires our cooperation. There will be Sabbath-keepers who probably won’t make it to heaven if not following God in other areas, Sabbath-keeping is not the determining factor, just like there will probably be many Sunday keepers in heaven who may not have known the Sabbath Truth, we are saved by the blood of Jesus through faith and if we have faith in Him we will do what He asks of us though love and faith. 1 John 5:3
Romans 3:31 Revelation 14:12

Also the Sabbath commandment is not a ceremonial law, it is part of God's eternal Ten Commandments Deut 4:13 Exodus 32:16 Matt 5:19 Rev 11:19 Isaiah 66:23 and all God's commandments are righteous Psalms 119:172 which means they are all the morally right thing for His children to do and obey if we believe and trust in God.

It seems like those tablets are very much an idol to some.

 

[ozso]

According to scripture there is no Jew or Gentile if in Christ, just God's people grafted in through faith. Gal 3:26-28, Noah was given the clean and unclean foods and he is not Jewish. Are bodies for Jews different than bodies of Gentiles, no, which is why no distinction was made in any of those scripture about unclean foods only for the Jews.

Noah was given clean animals to use as burnt offerings Genesis 8:20. Peter was used to eating a Jewish diet. Jesus said It is not what goes into the mouth of a man that makes him unclean and defiled Matthew 15:11-20

Col 2:14-16 KJV is not about the weekly Sabbath commandment as shown, and I think we should be careful making a doctrine out of one verse, especially when dealing with a commandments of God and one out of context and does not reconcile with the rest of God’s Word. Spending time with God on the day He set aside to be His holy, sanctified and blessed day is nothing but the delight as promised and never a burden 1 John 5:3 sadly many people miss out on the blessing God is trying to give us by spending time with us for a full day on His holy day. Isaiah 58:13-14

I know it severely upsets the applecart but Col 2:14-16 is clearly about food and the weekly sabbath.

 

[ozso]

SDA'a choose to keep them for health reason not because we think we have to follow the Mosaic law. I was a Refrigeration tech for years and at one of the places I worked we had a client that was a pork processing plant. They were regulated much more than any other type of meat processing plant. If their drive in freezer got above -20 degrees Farenheit for more than 30 minutes they had to throw away all their pork because it is so diseased. Any scavenger is like that because they eat rotten food on a regular basis. So God's dietary restrictions on the Hebrews is based on common sense. We are what we eat. This one of the reasons SDAs have a much lower cancer rate than all meat eaters.

Brother, you are a breath of fresh air.

 

[SabbathBlessings]

It seems like those tablets are very much an idol to some.

Serving and obeying God is not an idol, but I can see why one could think that way if they don’t understand the importance of keeping God’s commandments.

Ecc 12:13 Let us hear the conclusion of the whole matter: Fear God and keep His commandments, For this is man’s all

1 Cor 7:19 Circumcision is nothing and uncircumcision is nothing, but keeping the commandments of God is what matters.

It’s easy to say you love someone, it’s another to show them by listening to what they ask and then doing it. James 1:22

1 John 5:3 For this is the love of God, that we keep His commandments. And His commandments are not burdensome.


I see we are not getting anywhere, so I’ll probably bow out, but wish you well.

 

[SabbathBlessings]

Noah was given clean animals to use as burnt offerings Genesis 8:20. Peter was used to eating a Jewish diet. Jesus said It is not what goes into the mouth of a man that makes him unclean and defiled Matthew 15:11-20

Jesus is not talking about food in Mat 15:1-20 but eating with unwashed hands if one were to read this in context, He turns it into a parable and Jesus tells us what the parable means- nothing about food and Isaiah 66:17 makes this clear nothing changed

Matthew 15:15 Then Peter answered and said to Him, “Explain this parable to us.”

16 So Jesus said, “Are you also still without understanding? 17 Do you not yet understand that whatever enters the mouth goes into the stomach and is eliminated? 18 But those things which proceed out of the mouth come from the heart, and they defile a man. 19 For out of the heart proceed evil thoughts, murders, adulteries, fornications, thefts, false witness, blasphemies. 20 These are the things which defile a man, but to eat with unwashed hands does not defile a man.”

I know it severely upsets the applecart but Col 2:14-16 is clearly about food and the weekly sabbath.

I’m not the one you need to convince so suit yourself, we have free will.

I will leave it as agree to disagree.

 

[ozso]

Serving and obey God is not an idol, but I can see why one could think that way if they don’t understand the importance of keeping God’s commandments.

Ecc 12:13 Let us hear the conclusion of the whole matter: Fear God and keep His commandments, For this is man’s all

1 Cor 7:19 Circumcision is nothing and uncircumcision is nothing, but keeping the commandments of God is what matters.

It’s easy to say you love someone, it’s another to show them by listening to what they ask and then doing it. James 1:22

1 John 5:3 For this is the love of God, that we keep His commandments. And His commandments are not burdensome.


I see we are not getting anywhere, so I’ll probably bow out, but wish you well.

Did you read post #622? That's what I'm used to and what caused me to gain an appreciation for SDA standards. It wasn't until I started reading posts by a few on CF that caused me to start seeing SDA in a negative light.

 

[SabbathBlessings]

Did you read post #622? That's what I'm used to and what caused me to gain an appreciation for SDA standards. It wasn't until I started reading posts by a few on CF that caused me to start seeing SDA in a negative light.

That’s his opinion, I agree with the outcome disagree we are not following the health laws because of scripture. The Bible is our manual to follow, its the light to our path Psalms 119:105. God is our Creator and knows what’s best for us, including the foods we are to eat and to stay away from.

 

[ozso]

That’s his opinion, I agree with the outcome disagree we are not following the health laws because of scripture. The Bible is our manual to follow, its the light to our path Psalms 119:105. God is our Creator and knows what’s best for us, including the foods we are to eat and to stay away from.

His interpretation is that of most SDA I know of and has also been the interpretation of virtually all of the Body of Christ since the beginning, given to them through the Holy Spirit. Your stance seems to be that the interpretation you hold is the only valid one and virtually all the rest of the Body of Christ, including possibly most SDA, are actually being led by Satan. Saying or implying that virtually all of the Body of Christ are led by Satan, is reminiscent of the Pharisees saying Jesus was of Beelzebub Matthew 12:24-32

 

[trophy33]

That idea is a direct contradiction of what Paul says. He is speaking to Gentiles in the church at Corinth.

Paul's words are for the church at Corinth, examples from the Old Testament used by Paul are his cultural associations he was used to.

 

[Leaf473]

SDA'a choose to keep them for health reason not because we think we have to follow the Mosaic law. I was a Refrigeration tech for years and at one of the places I worked we had a client that was a pork processing plant. They were regulated much more than any other type of meat processing plant. If their drive in freezer got above -20 degrees Farenheit for more than 30 minutes they had to throw away all their pork because it is so diseased. Any scavenger is like that because they eat rotten food on a regular basis. So God's dietary restrictions on the Hebrews is based on common sense. We are what we eat. This one of the reasons SDAs have a much lower cancer rate than all meat eaters.

Very interesting So... The bottom line is that of all the instructions in the Old Testament, we have to keep only the 10?
_______________
A note about scavengers - chickens and pigeons, I believe, are both clean and scavengers.

Bible Gateway passage: Leviticus 1:14 - New King James Version

‘And if the burnt sacrifice of his offering to the Lord is of birds, then he shall bring his offering of turtledoves or young pigeons.

www.biblegateway.com

 

[SabbathBlessings]

His interpretation is that of most SDA I know of and has also been the interpretation of virtually all of the Body of Christ since the beginning, given to them through the Holy Spirit. Your stance seems to be that the interpretation you hold is the only valid one and virtually all the rest of the Body of Christ, including possibly most SDA, are actually being led by Satan. Saying or implying that virtually all of the Body of Christ are led by Satan, is reminiscent of the Pharisees saying Jesus was of Beelzebub Matthew 12:24-32

He doesn’t officially represent the SDA church nor do I. This is what the Official SDA church believes What do Seventh Day Adventists Really Believe? - Adventist.org

Also the poster is only referring to foods, so your conclusion on all SDA doctrine according to this poster is faulty because he is only referencing food.

We can only go by what scripture tells us and the Church of Jesus has always been a remnant, so it not the majority.Scripture shows the characteristics of His remnant Church.

Rev 12:17 And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.

It also shows the fruit of a saved person.
Rev 14:12 12 Here is the patience of the saints; here are those who keep the commandments of God and the faith of Jesus.

God has people in all churches living up to the light they have. But He is calling us out of our false teachings that have been handed down by the mother church because we must worship Him in Truth and Spirit. John 4:23-24 and Jesus says not to worship in vain keeping mans traditions over the commandments of God quoting from the unit of Ten Matthew 15:3-9 that can’t be edited Deut 4:2

Which is why God pleas with His people….

Rev 18:4 And I heard another voice from heaven saying, “Come out of her, my people, lest you share in her sins, and lest you receive of her plagues.

God loves each of us and wants to save each of us and gives us His Holy Scriptures so we can learn from what is written, we can follow His instructions and shows us the great sacrifice Jesus made for each of us, not only taking the penalty of sin, but giving an example of how one in Christ lives 1 John 2:6 Jesus came to save us from our sins, not in them Matthew 1:21 and sin is defined as transgressing God’s law 1 John 3:4 Romans 7:7. I know people have itching ears and want to hear what suits them, but we are only sanctified by the Truth of God’s Word John 17:17, all of God’s commandments are Truth Psalms 119:151 and only God can sanctify us, we cannot sanctify ourselves Eze 20:12.

 

[Leaf473]

That is why SDAs say truth is progressive. Where we really differ with the vast majority of Protestants is that we believe God never contradicts Himself. What comes later always builds on what comes before it, It never contradicts earlier revelations.

Sounds good! It looks to me like the entire law is fulfilled by loving our neighbor as our self. No contradiction, the law is fulfilled.

And since we do not belong to ourselves, we do not do our work six days a week... we do God's work 7 days a week.

Nice to meet you, have a good one!

Bible Gateway passage: Galatians 5:14 - New Century Version

The whole law is made complete in this one command: “Love your neighbor as you love yourself.”

www.biblegateway.com

 

[ozso]

He doesn’t represent the SDA church nor do I. This is what the Official SDA church believes What do Seventh Day Adventists Really Believe? - Adventist.org

Also the poster is only referring to foods, so your conclusion on all SDA doctrine according to this poster is faulty because he is only referencing food.

We can only go by what scripture tells us and the Church of Jesus has always been a remnant, so it not the majority.

Rev 12:17 And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.

Scripture shows the characteristics of His remnant Church. It also shows the fruit of a saved person.
Rev 14:12 12 Here is the patience of the saints; here are those who keep the commandments of God and the faith of Jesus.

God has people in all churches living up to the light they have. But He is calling us out of our false teachings that have been handed down by the mother church because we must worship Him in Truth and Spirit. John 4:23-24 and Jesus says not to worship in vain keeping mans traditions over the commandments of God Quoting from the unit of Ten Matthew 15:3-9 that can’t be edited Deut 4:2

Which is why God pleas with His people….

Rev 18:4 And I heard another voice from heaven saying, “Come out of her, my people, lest you share in her sins, and lest you receive of her plagues.

God loves each of us and wants to save each of us and gives us His Holy Scriptures so we can learn from what is written, we can follow His instructions and shows us the great sacrifice Jesus made for each of us, not only taking the penalty of sin, but giving an example of how one in Christ lives 1 John 2:6 Jesus came to save us from our sins, not in them Matthew 1:21 and sin is defined as transgressing God’s law 1 John 3:4 Romans 7:7. I know people have itching ears and want to hear what suits them, but we are only sanctified by the Truth of God’s Word John 17:17, all of God’s commandments are Truth Psalms 119:151 and only God can sanctify us, we cannot sanctify ourselves Eze 20:12.

What it boils down to is virtually the entire Body of Christ has always been in disobedience to God because they listened to Satan from the beginning (mother church) and SDA et al are the only ones who have been God's obedient remnant. When passages like Matthew 7:21-23 are applied to virtually the entire Body of Christ from the beginning, it's saying that Jesus will turn away virtually the entire Body of Christ that's existed from the beginning. And again that's because virtually the entire Body of Christ has been under Satan's spell since the beginning.

 

[SabbathBlessings]

What it boils down to is virtually the entire Body of Christ has always been in disobedience to God because they listened to Satan from the beginning (mother church) and SDA et al are the only ones who have been God's obedient remnant. When passages like Matthew 7:21-23 are applied to virtually the entire Body of Christ from the beginning, it's saying that Jesus will turn away virtually the entire Body of Christ that's existed from the beginning. And again that's because virtually the entire Body of Christ has been under Satan's spell since the beginning.

The scripture says the devil deceives the whole world Rev 12:9, thats the majority of people but God’s Word tells us how not to be deceived, if we are to believe the Words of scripture and allow it to be our path. Psalms 119:105 When does Jesus ever say the majority takes the narrow path? You seem to be disagreeing with the scripture. It’s there to help us so we make better decision. Jesus tells us a head of time because He loves us, but not everyone has faith in His Word. Which is why He pleas with us, Today if you hear His voice do not harden your hearts in rebellion. Heb 3:15, Psalms 95:7-8 we should listen. Obeying God is not meant to be burdensome 1 John 5:3 and its not including the blessing of God’s holy Sabbath day Isaiah 58:13-14 where He just wants to spend time with His people n the day He sanctified for holy use, only God can sanctify us. Eze 20:12

 

[Leaf473]

That is not an idea. That is scripture but God also gave Moses the ceremonial laws but they went out of effect at the death of Jesus on the cross as they were prophetic laws that looked forward to the Messiah. Once Jesus came and died for our sins they naturally went away as the reality had come..

So, all of the instructions in the Old Testament can be divided into two categories:
The Ten Commandments
and
Ordinances.

Some of the ordinances are ceremonial and went out of effect. Others did not go out of effect.

We were talking about this law up above. Is it ceremonial?

Bible Gateway passage: Numbers 15:38 - New Century Version

“Speak to the Israelites and tell them this: ‘Tie several pieces of thread together and attach them to the corners of your clothes. Put a blue thread in each one of these tassels. Wear them from now on.

www.biblegateway.com

Why would you want to observe a law that which no longer had any meaning?

I don't think either of us do, and that's why we're talking about it

 

[Gary K]

Very interesting So... The bottom line is that of all the instructions in the Old Testament, we have to keep only the 10?
_______________
A note about scavengers - chickens and pigeons, I believe, are both clean and scavengers.

Bible Gateway passage: Leviticus 1:14 - New King James Version

‘And if the burnt sacrifice of his offering to the Lord is of birds, then he shall bring his offering of turtledoves or young pigeons.

www.biblegateway.com

Yes. You hit that nail squarely on the head.
As to chickens, they are not scavengers as they do not eat rotten meat. Their principle natural diet is seeds and living bugs.